What Does the Bible Say About Same Sex Marriage? Is it Sin?

by Jack Wellman · Print Print · Email Email

What does the Bible say about same sex marriage?  Is it sin to marry someone of the same sex?  Does the Bible have Scripture about this subject and if so, is it out of date for our modern culture?

The Word of God Endures Forever

I have heard many liberal theologians say that the Bible is out of date and not relevant for today.  Recently I heard that 42% of seminary students did not believe the Word of God was without error.  Since it was written so many years ago, people argue that what was then sin is not sin today.  Are the liberal theologians correct to say that the Word of God is no longer pertinent to this day and age?  The Word of God actually talks about whether the Scriptures are constrained by times and cultures.  God has said that His Word abides forever and Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but [His] words will never pass away (Matt 24:35).

The Bible on Marriage

Let us rely on Scripture when we are defining marriage.  Neither should we depend upon human opinions, liberal theologians, sociologists, modern philosophies or on new state laws and constitutions. God’s law are a higher moral standard than that of mankind and even governments and states.  If we rely solely on Scripture, we will know the truth.  Since the Bible is the Word of God, we must believe what it says and we care not that it’s not popular because it’s more important to believe what God says than what humans think.  What is popular is not always the right thing and what is the right thing is not always popular, so let’s read the Word of God to see what He says about marriage, same sex marriage, and homosexual relationships.

When Jesus was speaking about marriage and grounds for divorce, He actually gave God’s definition of marriage saying, “But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate (Mark 10:6-9).  Jesus is quoting from the Book of Genesis, where the very first, God-ordained marriage originated, So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them (Gen 1:27).   Here we see that God not only performed the first marriage ceremony, He was the originator of marriage and it was – in the beginning – between a man and a woman.  God knew that it was not good for a man to be alone, so he made a woman for Adam.  In fact, God did not make man to be joined with men or women to be joined with women, but to be joined with someone of the opposite sex.  Even biology teaches us that it would be a little difficult to have and raise children if the marriage partners were of the same sex.  It would have been impossible to Be fruitful and increase in number, [and] fill the earth (Gen 1:28). Children receive better balance on how to be men and women when there are both a male and female in the home.  Same sex marriage may be fashionable today but that doesn’t make it right in God’s eyes.  He see’s it as sin as we will later see from the Scriptures.  Paul clarified that sex outside of marriage is wrong but indirectly said that sex should be between men and women.  He wrote that, “each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband (1 Cor 7:2).  There is no clearer definition of marriage in the New Testament than in I Corinthians chapter 7 and it is always between a man and a woman.

To be a pastor or a church official, one of the first qualifications was that he should be the husband of one wife, not another man, and so if someone is called into the ministry, they are literally not qualified if they have a marriage partner of the same sex or if they have more than one wife.  This is made clear in 1 Timothy.  A pastor has to be “a husband of one wife” (1 Tim 3:2).  This is repeated in Titus 1:6 and elsewhere.  Paul was very familiar with homosexuality in the culture that he lived in since he wrote two corrective letters to the Corinthians about this.  He could have made the exception to a man having another man or a man having more than one wife but he did not.  We see that Paul’s writings on this subject are no different from that taught in the Old Testament.

What Does The Bible Say About Same Sex Marriage

You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination“ (Lev 18:22).

The Bible on Same Sex Relationships

There is no room for error when we read the Scriptures in both the Old and the New Testament about men having sexual relationships with men and women with women.  There is no grey area at all.  Even the Old Testament said that this was an abomination to God as Moses wrote, You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination (Lev 18:22).   Just how serious did God take the sin of homosexuality?  In Leviticus 20:13 He says, “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.  They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”  We realize that the same thing applies to women having sexual relationships with women, for God has no double standards.  Just as He is no respecter of persons, neither does He regard treating sin with a man any different from that of a woman.

In case you are thinking that this was the Old Covenant, think again, for the New Testament actually has more Scriptures condemning same sex relationships than the Old Testament does.  Paul wrote, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God“ (1 Cor 6:9-10).  He continued in the Book of Romans, writing, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error (Rom 1:26-27).

Paul instructed the young pastor Timothy about sins that were contrary to biblical doctrine, telling him that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim 1:9-10). Sodomites are referring to same sex partners and the association is easy to see when you read the story of Lot in Sodom which was destroyed by God for such abominations.

God’s Judgment on Same Sex Relationships and Marriage Partners

What is the final fate of such who disobey the Word of God and marry or have sexual relations with someone of the same sex?  It is not good to say the least, but this is not my opinion and it is not politically correct, but it is the Word of God.  In Revelation 21:8 it says, the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  This is the second death.” To make it crystal clear, Paul writes that this lake of fire is the final destiny of those who have same sex relations, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders (1 Cor 6:9). There are only two places that people will go after they die or at Christ’s return; to the Kingdom of Heaven or to the burning lake of fire.  There is only one or the other.  God does not care that His Word doesn’t seem relevant to this culture or that liberal theologians and the unbelievers feel that the Bible is out of date.  The fact is the word of the Lord stands forever (1 Pet 1:25) and David wrote, “Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens (Psalm 119:89).

If you have struggled with homosexuality, you are certainly not alone.  God is ready to extend His mercy to you and His grace is freely offered.  It may be a titanic struggle, but many Christians have successfully come out of this lifestyle.  With God all things are possible.  Nothing is too hard for God and God will always provide a way out of your temptation.  Paul’s words give all who struggle with this some great hope, “No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it (I Cor 10:13).  Here is a rock-solid promise of God.  He can make a way of escape.  He can send the Holy Spirit to give you the power to overcome this abominable sin.  God desires that none of these who struggle with this perish.  He says, The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).  Believe Him.  With His help you can overcome the sin of homosexuality.  God can not lie (Titus 1:2) and His promises are surer than the sun rising tomorrow, but neither will He compromise on same sex marriage and the sin of homosexuality.  Where will you go to after you die?  The choice is up to you.

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{ 169 comments… read them below or add one }

Jess May 14, 2012 at 3:31 pm

Thanks for this article, a Pastor friend of mine has been teaching about our need to accept this in our culture. I have been struggling with try to talk to him about it. The only thing I have been able to say is Jesus teaches us to hate the sin but love the sinner. But what concerns me is he talks about homosexuality and same sex marriage as it not being a sin. This has given me some good talking points to bring up to him.
Oh, I stumbled on to this website and I am glad I did. I have been reading several of your articles and have found some discussions in the articles that have moved me in my faith. Thanks

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Jack May 14, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Thank you so much Jess for your comment. You do well to recognize that this pastor is not teaching accurately from the Bible. When pastors start to compromise the Scriptures, it is time, in my opinion, to find another church. As a pastor, I know that I am accountable to God to preach the unadulterated truth without watering it down. Perhaps you could forward this to the pastor in an act of love. I spoke of this subject yesterday and those who do such things are headed for a fierce judgment and to not warn people of their consequences is to fail at being the pastor and as God told the Watchman on the Tower that if you do not warn the people, the blood of them who perish is on our hands. I will have to give an account to God someday for what I teach from behind the pulpit and even if its politically incorrect, I would rather be persecuted and insulted (which I have already) for the truth’s sake than to make it acceptable what God calls an abomination. This is not my opinion, but the Holy Word of God. When truth is mixed with error, it makes it even more deadly for too many people will swallow it. I feel badly for this pastor. Forward this to him and ask him what he thinks. If he doesn’t repent at his teaching, then ask him about Revelation 21, Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1. I did not mention all of the Scriptures that teach against this for space would not allow. Either this pastor changes his beliefs to fit the Bible and repents of his error, or I would find another church. We were warned of this:

2 Peter 3:14-16 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Ephesians 5:5-6 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

1 Timothy 4:-2 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy.

Jude 3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I apologize for this being so long but this is a very serious issue. Please keep in touch Jess and let me know how it works out brother. I wish I had much who are unafraid to stand up for the truth such as you in my church. May God richly bless your willingness to obey the truth, regardless. Well done brother in Christ.

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Jess May 14, 2012 at 4:15 pm

WOW, thanks for your quick response. I do not attend his church but I have sent him a message asking for him to clarify what it is he has been posting online and more specifically if he beliefs that it is not a sin. What concerns me more is that several items he is posting in support of this topic come from other leaders in the Methodist church. One question I have though is it wrong for us to say or support the government if they decide to allow civil unions? My personal belief is that a civil union is between the gay community and the government and marriage is our convenient between God and husband and wife.
Thanks

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Jack May 14, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Thanks Jess. We do not have to verbally support the government Jess but we can not break the law for example and refuse to pay taxes for this breaks God’s command as Paul gave to us in Romans 13:1-6 “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.”

You should obey the law and pay taxes but you don’t have to support them verbally, by saying you support the government and you can always vote for politicians who support traditional marriage laws between and man and a woman. I don’t know if I answered your question or not but hope I did.

As for this “pastor” who I venture to say, from a biblical standpoint, is no pastor but a false shepherd, spouting that’s its okay for same-sex marriage may just want a lot of website visitors for often money is made the more visitors they get and if he says he is a pastor but has no church, he actually is not one.

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lylacavanaugh June 30, 2013 at 4:38 am

No you cannot afford to support a government that is run by children who know no better to think gay marraige is alright. The gays often say ” They want to be accepted the way they are.” But we cannot accept them as if the are O.K. To do that is evil. They need to be properly rebuked, the highest form of love their is since you are putting yourself on the line and will not gain the acceptance you need from them. They must be told the error of their ways. Only then can they wake up and allow the truth to catch up to them. The wise will be grateful you cared enough to stand up to them and get them thinking. As an aside, in a marraige between man and woman the sexual componet must also be overcome as the man slowly becomes the father of the wife. After all Eve was Adam’s daughter bone of his bone and flesh of flesh. He must also learn to correct the wife and not pull the evil out of her to support his ego and for his own selfish pleasure. The wife feels used and no longer can respect the man. A man who indulges too much can fall lower himself, blaming the woman for his spiritual decline. He feels used by the woman and this brings out violence. Also, there is no sex in heaven. Women and men are like the angles and there is no giving and taking marriage. Sex with another’s man’s rear end is not O.K.. Sex for eveyone must be overcome with a newfound respect for one’s partner. This is real love.

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Dani December 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm

Sorry I just reread that comment and it was very poorly written. I hope you can make some sense of it despite its rambling nature and strange wording.
I just wanted to say that there are many rules and numerous transgressions from scripture that occur everyday that are not treated as harshly as the same-sex debate by Christians. I feel sure from your wording that you aren’t ‘sitting on the fence’ on this matter and make it very clear that you are against it. I respect your views but I feel many people don’t take the time to really imagine how a gay person feels.
You are clearly heterosexual that is good news for you… you have been fortunate enough to find love and companionship without prejudice being thrown at you, I have to ask you if Gabriel popped down tomorrow and said “God’s asked me to tell you all to stop breeding for a few generations; your too numerous for his world to accommodate, you’ll have to start being intimate with the same-sex from now on!” how would you feel being forced to do so? How would you feel to be given conversion therapy so that you could do it without feeling sick and abused by being sexual forced to do something that is abhorrent to your own psychology? 5% of the population are gay… that is small in numbers… if Gabriel said “Just 5% of you are allowed to keep breeding for future generations” how hard would you pray to be in that 5%… probably as hard as the current 5% are praying they weren’t gay and didn’t have society ridiculing them, laughing at them and mentioning hell and demons in the same sentence as their love… it makes me sad for them, how must they feel about God?
I really looked forward to reading your thoughts after your lovely kind hearted approach to other matters, I was surprised by this one 🙁

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Dereck December 29, 2012 at 1:20 am

Hello Dani

Can you tell me where Paulmakes the comment that women are only to only speak to men at the church through their husbands?

Dereck

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paula samuels May 14, 2012 at 7:28 pm

Jack,
Just read your article with great interest, and also Jess’ comments. Thank you for your biblical insight. It is so rewarding to see Pastors step out and take a stand for God’s word. Oh how this lost world needs it! Too many churches “go along to get along.” And I believe that the church not being in the word has been the downward spiral
within society.
Thank you once again, and I look forward to future articles.
Sincerely,
Paula Samuels

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Jack May 14, 2012 at 8:18 pm

Paula, I sense you are an encourager and truly I needed this today for some comments on our Facebook/WhatChristiansWantToKnow has given me much heat and intense attacks against me personally but I am not judging or attacking anyone. The Word of God is certainly powerful enough and penetrates the bone and sinew of the flesh and penetrates to the heart and cuts to the quick. I appreciate words of encouragement like yours. They exhort me onward, truly they do my friend. I thank you so very much. I preached this past Sunday in church and got a few amen’s. I am going to have to stand and give an account to God someday for what I teach and that is most certainly a fearful thing if I don’t teach the whole Word and hold nothing back.

In the end, all glory, honor, praise, and credit go to our Lord God and His Word. If the churches got into the Word more, the Word would get into the more. Instead of reading the Word, I try to let the Word read ME (if you know what I mean). Again, my sincere thanks and I thank God for women of faith like you who will stand by me in these days of moral and spiritual decline.

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Jess May 15, 2012 at 10:06 am

Hey Jack, remember we are to rejoice when we are persecuted because of the Lord, stand strong in your faith and now the Lord stands with you!

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Jack May 15, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Amen my brother. Thank you so much and your are so right.

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phishing4men May 15, 2012 at 12:07 am

Good stuff Jack, because it simply presents the Word. Satan has so twisted the “do not judge scriptures”, hence folk who are lawless and refuse to repent but would rather hold on to their “acceptable sins” always retreat to the misinterpretation of those scriptures thinking that if they don’t judge or discern evil, somehow that will excuse them from being judged by a Holy God. Often that same group will emphasize God’s love and minimize God’s justice and wrath a god of their own making. We are living in a pagan nation, we stand in need of God’s grace and mercy.

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Jack May 15, 2012 at 3:43 pm

Thank you my friend. So true. God’s grace is not relevant until His holy, righteous wrath against sin is revealed. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery she was forgiven…but also, “Now go and sin no more.” I appreciate your words of wisdom.

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Dereck May 15, 2012 at 12:11 am

Hi Jack,

Great article. Jess made a statement about hating the sin but loving the sinner. I know that I cannot look down my nose at another person for committing a sin because I know that I am a sinner and that I just want to do that which is right. It seems that the churches of today just want to go along to get along. My Dad and I were just talking about this issue tonight. What I was trying to get accross to him was the fact that we have people who want to lead this lifestyle, however they should not be discriminated against. I think this is the love that I was talking about. If that is the kind of lifestyle they want to lead, then the word of God has enough to say about this and there is no more that needs to be said other than what is in the Book.

Peace and Love

Dereck

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Jess May 15, 2012 at 9:37 am

Hey Dereck, I just want to clarify what my statement means to me. Jesus approached everyone with love and compassion but he always called the out on sin in there lives. We all sin, but we must strive to surrender to Christ and not the distractions Satan puts in the world to move our focus away from Christ. I agree we should never be looking down our nose at a person and trying to be holier than thou type of an attitude but Christ also commands us to be the light unto the world, and salt of the earth. I think were the church today has lost their way is by not meeting people were they are in their own walks in life, with compassion. The church has had a bad rap of being holier than thou and I do not think that is was Jesus teaches. So when I use the words we should hate sin, we should strive to drive sin from our lives and show the world what that means. When I say love the sinner, I mean we should be willing to walk beside them, guide them in their walk, teach them of the love and compassion of Christ and then hold them to account.
Anyway just my two cents worth.
Peace and Love to you my brother in Christ,
jess

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Jack May 15, 2012 at 3:52 pm

Amen Dereck. Let the Word of God speak. I am not discriminating against them, and I know you are not saying that I am, but we are called to speak the truth in love. Not condemning them, no, but I just wanted people to know what the Word of God says and let it do the convicting for that is not my job, but I do feel that I need to address this issue – not slanted or judgmentally by my own opinion, but the Bible as God speaking and it must be made known.

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Anne May 15, 2012 at 8:07 am

Jack-Thank you so much for your word of truth. My heart has been heavy lately as I long for God’s way in our land. You are like a fresh spring of living water to me after reading so much against the marriage amendment here in N. Carolina. I feel we should not be supporting any benefits at all for something that is so counter to God’s word not to mention the stabilizing bedrock of our society for centuries. Many people here voted in favor of the marriage amendment but still want to give state support to civil same sex unions. This dichotomy is really hard for me to understand, especially among Christians. Can you help with this? People do not see the slippery slope that supporting same sex unions would have over time.

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Jack May 15, 2012 at 3:58 pm

Thank you so much Anne. I truly feel encouraged and if I am not persecuted for this, then I must not be speaking or writing about the truth in God’s Word. As for the dichotomy, let me say what I said to Jess on this. You say that many Christians who voted against this amendment but still want to give state support to civil same sex unions. Are you asking should we give state support of this by paying North Carolina taxes? Or by giving state support verbally?

We do not have to verbally support the government Anne but we can not break the law for example and refuse to pay taxes that will support this amendment we are against because this breaks God’s command as Paul gave to us in Romans 13:1-6 “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.”

You should obey the law and pay taxes but you don’t have to support them verbally, by saying you support the government and you can always vote for politicians who support traditional marriage laws between and man and a woman. I don’t know if I answered your question or not but hope I did. Until the Lord returns, this type of unjustice will occur, but all things will be made right someday. There is little we can do within the legal structure right now.

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Robby Lumpkin May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm

Jack,

Thanks for the article… With Obama coming out in support of gay marriage, the subject has been on my mind. I am a Christian, but i am very conflicted on this issue. As a society, we allow more and more to become “normal” everyday. I personally believe that acting on gay impulses is a sin, the same way that acting on a sex outside of marriage is a sin… However, we are in America, and we allow freedom of religion. If the guy next door to me goes to a “Christian Church”, is gay, wants to be married to a another man, and that “Christian Church” allows that type of union… then that is their business in my opinion. God will judge them and me one day. If the people of same sex want to live together, have children(adopt, sperm bank, whatever), then that is their business in America. It is a civil liberty in my opinion and they should enjoy the same benefits as any heterosexual marriage. I sin everyday in different ways.. I wake up and tell myself that Im gonna try to do better and sin less than i did the day before. But many of my sins are acceptable in society as well they should be in a free country. I sometimes spend too much money on myself , I get angry when i shouldnt, I watch too much tv and sometimes don’t work hard enough. Everybody sins and no sin is greater than another, right? So why should our personal views on religion condemn someone else if they are causing no harm to me or my family?? They have a right to believe ANYTHING THEY WANT… I have a right to believe they are wrong… but I dont have a right to interfere with their pursuit of happiness, do I? Tough subject, interested to hear your response.

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Jack May 15, 2012 at 4:12 pm

Thank you sir for your comment and yes, it is a tough subject. You said, “So why should our personal views on religion condemn someone else if they are causing no harm to me or my family?? They have a right to believe ANYTHING THEY WANT… I have a right to believe they are wrong… but I dont have a right to interfere with their pursuit of happiness, do I?”

The thing is that these are not my personal views. I have quoted Scripture and if the Bible says that murder is wrong and so is adultery, also both are sins, they do not have a right to do anything they want. I am not judging them…I am letting the Word of God speak on this sensitive issue.

My personal views are not what this article is all about…it has to do with what the Scriptures say. I am not interfering on their “pursuit of happiness.” God is their judge. If someone doesn’t like what the Bible says on this issue, which is what I used, then they are upset at the wrong person. I am not judging or condemning them. God is judge. I also sin but I also repent and try my best to stop that sin. When I lie, I confess it and ask God to empower me to stop sinning by the power of the Holy Spirit but those who are engaged in this lifestyle have no such desire to repent and turn from their sins like you and I do. Do you see the difference. I John 1:8 says we all sin…but 1 John 1:9 then goes on to say we must confess these sins…and only THEN will God forgive them.

God is Holy and as a pastor, I am to proclaim what the Bible says, and not I am not interjecting my “personal views.” They have a right, yes, but I have a right too to speak the truth and do it in love and speaking God’s words, not my own. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery that she was not condemned but He also said, “Now go and sin no more.” God forgives us…but when we repent and ask for forgiveness but if someone continues in sin and being unrepentant, that is what these Scriptures are addressing. Does that help or not? Thank you Mr. Lumpkin.

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Robby Lumpkin May 16, 2012 at 11:25 am

Jack,

I guess my confliction is more of a political one. While I agree wholeheartedly with the Bible and wish that every human on earth did, I realize that not everyone does. Which is why, i am a supporter of the rights of gays to join and be recognized as married in the eyes of the government. I trust that God will deal with each specific person on their judgement day. However, since we live in America, I think it is a violation of civil liberties to prevent human beings from following whatever religion they want, and if their religion(even it claims to be a Christian religion, which I consider blasphemy) or belief system allows for such marriages, then the government should not discriminate against that union based on what I feel is not right because of my specific religion or belief system. I am probably not making much sense, but that is why i am conflicted on the issue. If i were to vote against same sex marriage, then I personally feel like I am being hypocritical. Its their right to marry in the eyes of their own religion or belief system and specifically the government, in my opinion.

Thanks for your response. I realize you are using scriptures as evidence and not just your personal view, but some folks don’t believe those scriptures. And in America, that is definitely their right. I look forward to reading your response to this as well.

Thanks again,
Robby Lumpkin

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:43 pm

Great points again Mr. Lumpkin. The website is called What Christians Want to Know and the article is called What Does the Bible Say About Same Sex Marriage – Is it Sin? and so this article is aimed at Christians so they can be aware of where to take a stand on a biblical basis. We are really all hypocrites anyway and sinners. We are not condemning gays or lesbians. God loves them too. I see what you mean about violating their civil rights but the same civil rights allow freedom of religion and freedom of expression and so we are free to say to people what the Bible says. Ultimately, God will judge them, that is not our business, but God commands us to speak the truth…in love, but not to compromise it. Why do you consider the Christian religion blasphemy?

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Robby Lumpkin May 16, 2012 at 2:48 pm

Jack,

I apologize for the confusion in my grammar. What i meant was, a supposedly Christian church that allowed or recognized same sex marriage would be blasphemy. Not the true Christian religion or church… Once again, sorry for the confusion.

Robby Lumpkin

Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:57 pm

Thank you for clarifying the blasphemy part Mr. Lumpkin. It could be me….and the older I get, the more senior moments I have sir. Great point about the churches too. Most excellent. You are welcome here at anytime sir. God bless you and thank you for visiting us and for such a common sense response full of dignity and respect. That is how I want to treat others too sir, even if its someone of a different sexual orientation. I am no better than any man.

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Robby Lumpkin May 16, 2012 at 3:06 pm

God Bless you as well, and thank you for kind words. I will definitely continue to look to this website for biblical advice and perspective. Have a blessed day!

Elizabeth Del Greco May 17, 2012 at 11:39 pm

Robby, the old saying holds true here for you. “If you don’t stand for something, then you will fall for anything.” Your views on unlimited freedom and tolerance for anything that comes down the pike are dangerous and irresponsible. As the Ten Commandments are not just the “Ten Suggestions,” so the Word of God is not negotiable. If the Bible says that same sex relationships are wrong, then no amount of rhetoric or demagoguery will prevail. Be strong and stand up for the Truth, my friend. “So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.” – Revelation 3:16 You are cruising for a spewing.

Robby Lumpkin May 18, 2012 at 7:46 am

Elizabeth,

Wow!! While I find your play on words in forecasting my eternal damnation quite clever, it is a little disturbing. While i can admit that I may be lukewarm on some issues, I am working out those issues with God, what I consider fellow Christians here on this website, and my church family. Maybe one day I will be as confident as apparently you are on what freedoms i try to infringe on. Look, I know it is wrong, I know it is not good in the eyes of God, but neither is alot of things in this world, and its not easy to find the line in a free society. If we lived in a country that demanded you be a Christian, then I think I would be a little more up in arms about how individuals lived their own life. How far do you go, though? A vote against?, picketing?, rioting? All i feel that I can do is try to reach some of these folks that are lost and help them find their way. Not impose or force my belief system on them. God bless you and have a great day.
Robby

Jess May 18, 2012 at 10:16 am

Elizabeth, While I agree we need to stand for something and as Christians we are called to obey God’s words, that does not mean we need to have a holier than thou type of attitude. Jesus meet everyone with compassion, love but also the truth. It does the church no good to condemn anyone without first trying to minister to them. You can not share God’s love down the barrel of a gun, but by meeting people were they are in their walk through life. If we can not have an open and honest conversation about a very sensitive topic as brothers and sisters in Christ, what hope do we have to talk to the gay community when we can not do it with in the christian one.
Having an openly gay sister, whom I am trying to talk with about this topic, a pastor friend of mine that is teaching in his church that it is not a sin, have made this a very personal issue. Because I have talked to them open and honestly with the compassion and love of Christ we have had very good constructive conversations. If I had only been accusatory and holier than thou, I would have missed an opertunity to share the Gospel with them. I may not have changed their minds but I planted a seed for God to grow.

phishing4men May 18, 2012 at 3:22 pm

Jess May 18, 2012 at 10:16 am
Elizabeth, While I agree we need to stand for something and as Christians we are called to obey God’s words, that does not mean we need to have a holier than thou type of attitude.
Are you implying that Elizabeth is demonstrating a “holier than thou attitude”. I have read and reread her comment and only see her telling the truth. The pagan nation we live in (USA) has so influence the thinking of her citizens we don’t seem to be allowed to speak truth, point out heretics by name, or call sin, sin without being called judgemental or holier than thou. The day is soon coming when The Righteous Judge will call believers to the mercy seat, and unbelievers to the seat of judgement. The Word tells us there will be a lot of surprised “good, tolerant, unholier than thou” folk lined up at the judgement seat. Thank God for mercy and grace, thank God for truth and justice. Hang in there Elizabeth, the worst is yet to come for those who take a stand on truth in love. PS I thought your play on words were quite a gentle way to state a warning to all those straddling the fence, “neither hot nor cold”.

Dereck May 15, 2012 at 10:00 pm

Hi Jack,

That is exactly what I was saying!! I know that peoples actions have to be poined out, and then they have to be directed where to go in the Bible so that they can act accordingly. Of course, that is for any sin!!

Peace and Love
Dereck

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:44 pm

Amen Dereck. I was agreeing with you my friend. I love how you get to the point and try to see things in a loving perspective. That is why we need more men of faith like you here sir. God bless. Amen and amen.

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Dereck May 15, 2012 at 10:29 pm

Hi Robby,

I understand what you are saying as well. I am conflicted on this issue as well. I support Jack as well as my Pastor who also defends what is in the Book also. Sin has to be pointed out whether it is this lifestyle or bearing false witness. Both have to be addressed.

Peace and Love
Dereck

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Again, amen Dereck. If given a choice as to whether obey the government or God, its a no brainer. I choose to follow God’s commands.

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Katz September 11, 2012 at 11:09 am

I thought God commanded us to love one another.

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Jack Wellman September 11, 2012 at 6:35 pm

Indeed Katz. God commanded us to love one another but He also commands everyone to repent from our sins, to confess them to Him and trust in Christ. If you are upset with this article, this is not my personal opinion but I quoted the Word of God, the Bible and this is God speaking, not me.

Love without obedience is not really love at all. We do love others…we are all sinners, but we are forgiven if we confess…Jesus loved us so much He died for the ungodly like me. If I love my children I command them to obey me and stay out of the street. Love is equal to discipline and obedience shows you love God. Disobedience is the opposite of love.

Jesus said in John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.” If you are upset with this article then you are really upset with what God has said about same sex marriage and relationships.

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Dereck September 11, 2012 at 8:31 pm

Hi Katz,

As Jack has stated, we are to love everyone, but, we are also to obey His word. God tells us in the old testament and the new that this kind of lifestyle goes against the word of God.

All of the believers who come to this site are struggling with something. I know that I am. So, I cannot look down my nose at anyone.

If there is something that anyone is struggling with, they can come to this site and get directed on where to go in the book (the Bible) to get the answers each of us needs to live a Godly lifestyle.

Peace & Love

Dereck

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Json May 16, 2012 at 12:47 am

Should we hold the world and un-believers to Christian standards? I know we should tell them of Gods laws, his love, and his saving grace, but in scripture (1 Corinthians 2 I believe) it says that those without Gods spirit cannot understand his word (or something along those lines, sry I don’t have the specific passage, I’m in a rush). Furthermore in that same book Paul addresses a concerns about a man who is in a relationship with his stepmother. But says that God will judge those who do not know (1 Corinthians 5). Maybe I’m misquoting. Again I’m in a rush. Just wanted to get your thoughts on it! Thanks!

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:37 pm

Thanks Json. No, we should not hold unbelievers to Christian standards. We should hold all people to God’s standard, not Christians, the standard is the Bible, not mine or Christians. Yes, God will judge those who don’t know God but we are told to warn people of the coming wrath of God in the hopes that they might flee to the cross of Christ and be saved. God is love and has grace, but His greatest attribute is His holiness. If we knew someone was going to walk off a cliff and didn’t know it, in love we would warn them, even if they didn’t believe us. We are not judging them…God will, but we want no one to perish and so we try to tell people about it. Even Christians at one time were unbelievers too and someone warned us and so that’s the only way we found out how to escape judgment and find eternal life in Christ. Thank you sir. Great points.

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Wendy November 4, 2012 at 8:09 am

You stated if one was going to walk off a cliff and didn’t know it, in love we would warn them, even if they didn’t believe us. So we are to warn, but not go so far as to grab them and force them back, because it would be futile? I mean, I know we cannot force people into accepting God’s grace…
I just wonder if that means we shouldn’t vote against gay marriage because it is like forcing them from not choosing the way of falling off the cliff. Forgive me if this is confusing in the way I am putting it. Should we not vote at all on this issue? Is voting really taking a stand since it is done confidentially? Should we just be verbal and demonstrative in what God says but not influence governmental restrictions, because we cannot force people to choose God’s way? Or does having a law against gay marriage in fact force people to God’s way (excluding those who decide to break the law)?

I want to be obedient to God. But some of the scriptures about government and wondering how much we should be involved in it are confusing to me.

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Jack Wellman November 4, 2012 at 5:10 pm

Great point Wendy. Yes, if they don’t want someone grabbing them, that’s fine, but we are to warn them at least and that is an act of love. Voting is taking a stance yes, and done in privacy, know one knows but God. We are to be part of the government and take part in the laws and regulations just like an atheist has the right to. Jesus said render unto Ceasar the things of Ceasar and the things of God unto God and as American citizens we have every right to vote for and against laws in this country but having a law against gay marriage can not force Christians to break the law. The higher, moral law is always God’s laws and when they conflict with mankind’s laws, we choose to obey God over men.

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phishing4men May 16, 2012 at 12:02 pm

If one is truly born again, one will believe and depend on Christ alone, Scripture alone, Grace alone Faith alone all to the Glory of God alone, the conflict will end. God’s word trumps mans, governments law. Our conflict comes from our sinful flesh. Our need, my need is one of a continual attitude of repentance. Since we live in a pagan nation, any area of our lives not under the Lordship of Jesus Christ we will be conflicted. Our obligation to our Govt is to pay taxes and obey it’s laws, until those laws do not line up with God’s word. Never subject God’s word to any Govt agency. Daniel would be a good example of that.

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 2:52 pm

Amen brother…if given the choice as to obey God or the government, I would gladly be hauled off to jail for following the higher law…the true Supreme Court of Heaven, for God is sovereign over all. Loved the example of Daniel. Great one brother.

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Cristina May 16, 2012 at 7:23 pm

“To be a pastor or a church official, one of the first qualifications was that he should be the husband of one wife, not another man, and so if someone is called into the ministry, they are literally not qualified if they have a marriage partner of the same sex.” (The Bible on Marriage, paragraph 3)
A woman who used to go to my previous church began seminary classes a few years back. Towards the end of her training, she “came out of the closet”, so to speak. She is now married to a woman and living, I believe, in either Wisconsin or Wyoming. However on her facebook account, it lists her as a Lutheran pastor, and she has recent photos of herself giving a sermon. If what you said in the part I quoted is true, then how is she a pastor? I didn’t actually realize that heterosexuality was a requirement for pastors. Could you further explain this for me?

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 7:56 pm

Christina, I am not have done a good wording of paragraph 3 apparently, so I am truly sorry about that. The main crux of the point was that a pastor should have only one wife. The intent for the pastor’s qualification therefore is one: they should have only one wife and two: their marriage partner should be a person of the opposite sex. In no way does the Bible teach that a pastor can be married to anyone of the same sex for that would fly in the face of all the New Testament teachings and so I am sorry, perhaps I did a poor job of wording it.

Here is what I intended it to mean:

To be a pastor or a church official, one of the first qualifications was that he [the man who is being ordained] should be the husband [the man being ordained] of one wife, not another man [that is the man being ordained should not be marrying another man], and so if someone is called into the ministry, they are literally not qualified if they have a marriage partner of the same sex [a pastor marrying a same sex person is clearly wrong] or if they have more than one wife [pastors should have only one wife]. I hope this clears it up. I apologize if I was not clear Christina. Does this straighten it out?

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Cristina May 16, 2012 at 8:49 pm

I understood that part. But I was saying that this pastor I am speaking about is a woman, and is married to another woman. That is, she is quite openly lesbian. And yet she is a pastor. That’s what I don’t understand.

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Jack May 16, 2012 at 8:56 pm

Thank you Cristina. I believe she can call herself anything she wants, but it is GOD Who anoints the pastor truly and not humans. She can be standing in a garage and make honking noises and sounds like an engine and even call her self a car but just being in a garage doesn’t make her one. Just the same, she can say that she is a pastor and even be in a church, but that doesn’t make her one, in especially since she most certainly does not qualify as one according to the Bible…and according to the Bible is the only thing that makes a pastor legitimate. I know from the Bible’s qualifications, she really is not…at least of the Church that Jesus built…of one that mankind built, yes. Does this make sense?

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Cristina May 16, 2012 at 9:04 pm

Yes it does. Thank you. By the way I like the garage and car thing. That was good. Kind of like a Facebook profile picture being a car; I didn’t know they were a transformer! haha
But thank you, I guess I’ve never really thought about the idea of being a pastor of human standards or a pastor of God’s standards before. When I hear “pastor” I think of the leader of a church, one who has a very strong faith and knows that Christianity is a Faith not a religion, and so on. I never thought about the other.

Dereck May 16, 2012 at 9:13 pm

Hey Jack and Robby,

You both have voiced exactly how I feel. While I do not want them to be descriminated against, but, we all have to adhear to God’s word. That is the bottom line.

Dereck

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Pam May 18, 2012 at 5:46 pm

Jack,
Thank you for your article. I was in a heated debate about same sex marriage and was just jumped on even from Christians, which has saddened my heart. They were saying it was a civival matter and why shouldn’t the gays be allowed to marry. My heart breaks and when you stand up for what is right people attack you. So I want to thank you for standing up with what our Father and His Son said about the matter.
Pam

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Jack May 18, 2012 at 10:05 pm

Thank you Pam. If we start to legalize everything that God forbids in His Word as sin, where do we draw the line? Is it be okay to accept pornography as a civil matter, and then child pornography, will its freedom of the press and freedom of speech. I have taken a lot of heat, particulary on the WCWTK Facebook site but I suppose if you don’t ever get persecuted for saying what’s in the Bible, then we must leave out a great many portions of it. I have heard that the truth will set you free…or it will make you really mad. Jesus said that offenses must come. They are really not persecuting me but the Word, the messenger they might attack but it is the message they hate. I can live with it and in fact Jesus said to rejoice when you are persecuted. Thanks for your support. This article was not a talk-show opinion nor my own personal views but God speaking and God can not lie.

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Dereck May 18, 2012 at 10:23 pm

Hello Jess and Robby,

I love the way both of you want to approach this topic. I believe this is the way Jesus would have us approach these types of issues. If you look and think about it, there is no way we can have a holier than thou attitude. Because we all sin and come up short. We all sin, whether it is in thought, word or deed. God has put christians here on earth to continue to spread the message of Jesus Christ. He wants us to spread this message with love and understanding. He wants us to plant the seed. If people decide not to take this message, so be it. That does not mean that people should be descriminated against or physically hurt or beat up because they decide not to go the way we are going. I am a black man and it was not long ago when it was accepted practice to descriminate against people of color.

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phishing4men May 19, 2012 at 1:35 am

Dereck May 18, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Hello Jess and Robby,

” That does not mean that people should be descriminated against or physically hurt or beat up because they decide not to go the way we are going.”
Dereck do you know of one truly born again Christian that has physically hurt or beat up someone who does not agree with their faith? If there are people out there who claim to be Christians and are beating up on and physically or emotionally hurting people, they are most likely not true born again believers. It is possible that some are but if they have that behavior as a way of life without repenting and making restitution, they are most likely not believers at all. Now I will wait while you tell me I am not to judge, or that I too am holier than thou. I will tell you as a true born again believer, I surely desire to be holier than those living in this pagan world. One of the problems with this type of forum is that we do not know each other personally and have no avenue to sit down with the Word of God and reason together. We judge each other on what is said in our comments without knowing the character of the other person, I find I am too often guilty of this myself, just read some of my comments, they seem harsh and stiff, judgemental and holier than thou, but there is only one man on this board that knows my heart and could tell you rather I am a compassionate person, or just a red neck judgemental oaf who could care less if the lost in this world burn in hell or are given a chance to hear the true gospel. It has not been that long ago I was at enmity with God, a God hater, disobedient and a mocker of God and His people. By His mercy and grace I have been born again, a new creature, I did not look for God He found me, gave me grace and faith to repent and believe in Jesus Christ alone, so I have no claim to fame or nothing to boast about. I read in His word where He, since regenerating me and justifying me He has set about to perfect me in Christ Jesus. One day I as all of his true followers will be just like our Savior Jesus. First I hate the remnant of sin that is in me, I also hate the remnant of sin that is in you and all believers, and especially hate the sin and lawlessness in this pagan world, but by His grace and the changes He has wrought in my life if Holy Spirit convicts me of hate toward someone, I seek to have a spirit of repentance, some times like all of His children He has to bring trials and testing to my life to see and be willing to repent, but He promises He will continue that work in me knowing my flesh is weak. But Father in heaven keep me humble by whatever means, but make me like Jesus Christ, holy so that I may dwell in your presence forever and ever amen. Thank you for your promise to do just that. God have mercy on this pagan world and stir in our hearts to be about your business, as we are going, to make disciples.

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phishing4men May 19, 2012 at 1:38 am

The Glorious Gospel
May 19, 2012

“According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” (1 Timothy 1:11)

In the opening chapter of Paul’s first letter to Timothy, his “son in the faith” (v. 2), Paul gives various instructions concerning the proper teaching of doctrine, “which was committed to |his| trust,” and which now Paul was passing on to his followers. He took great care to charge Timothy to “hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 1:13, and elsewhere). Before launching into a testimony and defense of God’s grace in salvation (vv. 12-17), Paul gives stern warning against false doctrines and false teachers (vv. 3-11). These teachers, “having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm” (1 Timothy 1:6-7). He even lists various sinful characteristics and actions of these false teachers (vv. 9-10), covering basically the same ground as the Ten Commandments.

The things in this list, Paul claims, are “contrary to sound |literally healthy, wholesome| doctrine.” This doctrine, which is “according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God,” is held up as the standard by which we evaluate any teaching or attitude, not a man-made system of ethics or code of conduct.

This glorious gospel, the good news, proclaiming the entire person and work of the great Creator/Redeemer Jesus Christ, must be the basis for all “sound” teaching and lifestyle. Paul later wrote that these “wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and . . . the doctrine which is according to godliness” (1 Timothy 6:3) bring spiritual health, while any contrary teaching brings spiritual poverty and corruption. “From such withdraw thyself” (v. 5). JDM

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Dereck May 19, 2012 at 8:59 am

Hello Phishing4men,

Let me say first of all, I was not trying to imply anything as far as beating up people because they choose this kind of lifestyle. I was trying to lift us Christians up and think about the bigger picture, and that is, the love of Jesus Christ. You asked a question about knowing someone who was beat up for being gay? No I do not, however, in the area where I live, there are crimes committed against gay and transgendered people all the time. A few have been murdered. This happens a lot. As the police investigate these crimes, the only thing they can conclude is that these people were gay. Now, again, I am not saying or implying anything, I just want us, in the Christian community, to keep our eyes on the prize. That prize is Christ Jesus and spread the love. If I was not clear, please forgive me as when I wrote that message, it was late at night and probably tired and left some things out. Let me say though, the imprtant thing is, the Love!!

Peace amd Love
Dereck

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Dereck May 19, 2012 at 9:12 am

Hello Phising,

I also do not know a christian person who has committed the crime of assault or murder on a gay person. I was just pointing out the fact that these crimes are committed and our job is to plant the seed as Jesus would have us to do, and, He will take care of the rest.

Dereck

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michael May 20, 2012 at 8:07 am

pliz pastor , advice me on the Mormon Church, or LDS as they call it.. Should i join it???
I fear that it may be a Cult.

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Jack May 20, 2012 at 12:49 pm

Hello Micheal. I have your email and will respond personally to your request. I edited out your email for privacy’s sake but did post your comment. I appreciate your concern about the LDS church. I will respond soon sir. Thank you for your question and concern.

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Cat July 12, 2012 at 3:11 am

My great-grandmother was mormon and my grandmother on my dad’s side was born into the mormon church. After my great grandfather pushed her down the stairs, my great-grandmother escaped to Calif., divorced him, remarried and became Christian. Its a Cult…run! This was my grandmothers advice when asking about the church!

Their teaching doesn’t even closely resemble Christianity.

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Jack Wellman July 12, 2012 at 4:10 pm

Amen…what troubles me is that they are more evangelisitic than most Christians and only 1 in 20 believers share their faith to lead at least one person to saving faith in Christ in their entire lifetime! How sad. Some doors I knock on say that its been 20-30 years since someone other than Mormon’s or JW’s knocked on their door.

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Cat July 13, 2012 at 12:37 am

Its’ sad but I can’t ever remember anyone knocking on my door except Mormon and JW’s…Correction…I do remember drunks, addicts, and people who needed help. The last few years I was at home, we rented the church parsonage because the pastors wife owned a home. So when you mentioned your wife being under a telescope at times, I know what you mean! We got a little taste of what it is like for a ministers family…all eyes in the church were on us. We were not allowed to ever miss a church function or service. We could not make any misteaks without someone catching them. As for the community, they thought we were the pastors family! Come to think of it, I think we even had a few JW’s or mormons come knocking on the parsonage door. I can give you this hint however…If you don’t want them knocking on your door, move into the same neighborhood as their kingdom hall, or church. For some reason they don’t pester those homes next door. Maybe they are afraid of upsetting them! I have lived next to at least 3…I have a kingdom hall just the next block up at my currant residence and nobody comes a knocking…Also, if they do come to your house, I have found the fastest way to get them to leave is to start quoting scripture back at them!

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faith May 21, 2012 at 6:19 am

hi jack

thank u for the wise words. the world has become very confusing especially for us as youths and it is always good to have people like you to show us the right way. In my country in Africa some people want gay rights to be included in the constitution and im praying that they come across this website. thank you and God Bless

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Jack May 21, 2012 at 2:49 pm

Thank you Faith. I only wrote this in the hopes that they might see that what they are doing is sin and not judging them, but pointing them to the Judge Who will judge them someday. I so wish and do pray that some will read this and come to God in repentance and faith in Christ and be saved.

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maxwell May 21, 2012 at 6:26 am

so very right jack! in my country we are writing a new constituition and i’m proud to tell u that the ordinary citizens have overwhelmingly rejected the inclusion of clauses recognising or protecting gay rights. Engaging in gay activities is infact a crime here. Gays and lesbians need prayers and rehabilitation. Remember it is for homosexual sins that Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed.
Shame on President Obama. You American people need to protect your children from the likes of him.

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maxwell May 21, 2012 at 6:29 am

so very right jack! in my country we are writing a new constituition and i’m proud to tell u that the ordinary citizens have overwhelmingly rejected the inclusion of clauses recognising or protecting gay rights. Engaging in gay activities is infact a crime here. Gays and lesbians need prayers and rehabilitation. Remember it is for homosexual sins that Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed.
Shame on President Obama. You American people need to protect your children from the likes of him.
Max zimbabwe

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Jack May 21, 2012 at 2:47 pm

Thank you so much Max. I am so concerned over the direction of this nation and now many from the pulpit are condoning or accepting of same sex relationships and they believe that this is a new day and age, yet God’s Word abides forever and He never compromises with sin…ever! We must stand strong in these days….loving and praying for homosexuals for there but by the grace of God go we too…but we must tell people what the Bible says and God can not lie. I wrote this in love in the hopes that at least some might repent and turn to God and place their faith in Jesus and be in the Kingdom of Heaven. Indeed, this is the whole purpose of this website. I am not judging them. God is their and my judge. May He be merciful to us all.

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sharon krohn May 23, 2012 at 9:33 am

thank you for this article. my son is claiming to be gay but i pray every day that he will wake up & say please God i want out. help me. plus pray for my son his name is andrew plus god pass an assignment on to me. i need to pass this message pass it on as far as u can. its face your giants (THINK GOD) simple all of our troubles today are satan. hes our giants. but with god hell fix them all. so (THINK GOD) that simple. god bless you see u soon at home from your sister in christ sharon Krohn

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Jack May 23, 2012 at 2:51 pm

Sharon, you are doing just what we need to do and the only real thing we can do is pray and allow God to work in our children’s lives. Praying for Andrew and for you too to keep on your knees and never give up.

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VDM July 7, 2012 at 10:26 pm

I have lived a Life of poverty and abuse. As the older brother of 5 children I also witnessed their abuse which pained me more than my own. I realized very early on that I did not feel attracted to the opposite sex and hated that about myself. I struggled through middle school and Highschool to appear “normal”. I would pray to god to help me and to change me. I dated the most beautiful girls in school but I felt never connected with them in sexual way. I forced myself to try and make it work but I couldn’t connect sexually. I contemplated suicide as a teenager but was afraid of hell. I then thought about continuing the lie but worried I couldnt keep the lie going. I envisioned myself married with children then eventually destroying it by giving in to my true feelings. I felt I couldn’t destroy the lives of innocent people. I was not going to marry a woman. After Highschool I met my life partner, he was my first boyfriend and we have been together 17 yrs now. I am still not completely happy. I long for children of my own, as an older brother I was used to caring for my siblings and miss that side of myself. This life is a difficult one and wouldn’t wish it upon anyone. I wish I was made to feel sexually connected to the opposite sex but it didn’t happen for me. I have questioned why I was made to feel the way I do about the same sex. Was I a mistake? Then I thought, god doesn’t make mistakes. God made me perfect and he has a plan for me. He made me exist with the feelings I have. As stated in another archive on what do angels look like. You stated we are human and not angels. As humans we are chemical beings filled with hormones. My chemical makeup makes me feel the way i do and i do not think it was by accident. If the tables were turned I would never tell someone to be involved sexually with someone they were not sexually attracted to. Pastor, I would not tell you it was gods will that you be with a man when you were sexually attracted to a woman, Or vice versa. This is a struggle I am going through to this day and I hope god has pity on me and forgives me. God knows my heart and knows my struggles and my sacrifices. Jesus message of love is what keeps me going and hopeful for the afterlife. Love conquers all. Hope, faith, love
VDM- messenger of god

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Jack Wellman July 8, 2012 at 2:05 pm

VDM, what a moving and powerful comment. I truly see the Holy Spirit working in you. I see myself in the mirror and am convicted for I am not above anyone even if I am a pastor. Loved your comment that love is what keeps us going for Jesus’ arms are open wide to all, if only we will see our sinful nature, like mine, and come to Calvary to have the precious shed blood of Christ wash us clean. I believe the fact that you are struggling is showing me your desire to obey God and to fully follow Him. I know that I have to go to Christ every day but the good news is that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

God bless you VDM in your journey and struggle to walk with God. Like Jacob we all wrestle but there is victory in those who place their trust in Christ. Thank you for you open transparency…there is a lesson for us all here and your faithfulness is commendable.

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Bob June 11, 2015 at 1:24 am

To VDM, who mentioned that he “naturally” feels attracted to men and so it must be by design, or God’s will for whatever reason.

It seems to me that having feelings or urges towards homosexuality is no different than having the urge to steal something, to get drunk, to have extra-marital sex, to lie. I’ve known a lot of people with various demons they’ve battled, as well as my own, of course, and the thing is that we’re not all the same.

Who can say why some people are tempted by homosexuality and some by prostitution, or drugs, or thievery, etc…? But to use the argument that “I am gay and so it must be His will” is wrong no matter how you look at it.

No one is gay naturally, by birth and by the will of God, for His word tells us so. Rather, people have been tempted by and given in to the earthly desires just like the thief, the drunk, the whore monger, the liar, the drug addict, and every other sinner. Homosexuals are not, as far as I can tell, any more a sinner than you or I who struggle in our daily lives with whatever demons we struggle. However, just as I wouldn’t condone my friend being a drunken, thieving liar, I’m not going to condone his being gay simply because it “makes him feel better”, or because this corrupt world has virtually normalized this sin.

I have known many men and women who ruined their otherwise happy, married lives and shook their children’s lives badly by their lack of strength and resolve to fight the “urge” to fool around and have extra marital relationships, or some who just couldn’t or wouldn’t resist the urge to drink. It’s fun, right, and it feels good, so they give in. Over time, when we don’t resist and fight these feelings or urges when they’re small, when we open the door (accept that drinking, drugs or homosexuality is normal because Hollywood says so), then we set our own selves up for heart ache, much like that which VDM says he’s now living with because of his perceived internal conflict.

Why do you suppose it is that when you go to a drug or drinking (or ANY addiction therapy) the first thing they require is that you accept, admit and acknowledge the specific demon you’re struggling with (alcohol, drugs, etc…)? Of course, in this this “enlightened” world which doesn’t believe in God they don’t say that it’s a demon that people are struggling with, so they call it simply an addiction.

It sounds to me like VDM, and most likely many other “struggling” homosexuals know within their own hearts where the truth lies and homosexuality will require the same strength and courage to overcome it as it does the whore monger trying to save his marriage, the drug addict trying to stay sober and the liar who feels like he can’t stop. The price of failure is your eternal soul, and perhaps the eternal soul of the person you feel so much love for.

Christians everywhere should pray that those being tempted by the demons of homosexuality will find the truth and the light through the grace of our Lord Jesus, and that they are granted strength, courage and wisdom through the Holy Spirit.

Further, let’s welcome and accept these men and women into our lives so that we may better counsel them and be a source of strength, and not in a way that we condone or accept their sin, but that we love and accept them as Jesus has commanded. For the greatest gift of man is Love. If we chastise and chase away those who live in sin, how can we counsel them?

Mark 12:30-31 says: “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” “The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Finally, I ask everyone to read and always remember this scripture:

The Greatest Gift

1 Corinthians 13 (From the New King James Version)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Praise and glory to God.

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Cat July 12, 2012 at 3:59 am

Jack…I have been greatly troubled since I heard the news yesturday about the Episcopal church creating a rite for gay couples and openly recognizing their marriages. I won’t quote scripture because you have done that very throughly but found it shocking to look online for confirmation of what I have already been hearing the last two years. The Lutheran and Prespyterian churches are allowing practicing openly gay ministers? I could see if someone came out and said I have struggled with these feelings my whole life and therefore I am gay but I refuse to give into living the lifestyle…in otherwords they are celebate. This is not the case however! I was reading that the Methodist were considering the same thing. Now we have the Episcopal church creating a rite which is a blessing equivalant to saying that they accept this lifestyle and union. I also saw something about a Baptist minister who is refusing to marry straight couples until the church allows her to marry gay couples.

This country is going to continue to get worse until the antichrist arrives…I fear we have slipped past the point of return. We have a president who says he is christian but is for gay marriage. We have his competitor who is not christian and would be the first openly non-christian to ever hold the office if voted in. I don’t know who to vote for because both are not worthy of the office. This country has been blessed because even though we allow freedom of religion, we were founded
intentionally as a Christian country. Our founding fathers only separated church and state because they didn’t want people to be forced into paying taxes to one national church and being persecuted for beliving in an unsanctiond church as they had been in England. We have this intent documented in letters between founding fathers. What did God allow to happen to Isreal every time they turned from him…how long did he allow them to struggle before turning his favor back upon them? Why do we think it will be any differant with us? We were a nation of God and now we are allowing non-christians to remove God from every aspect of this country.

If we could stop our petty differances and for once when dealing with national politics, all come togather we could stop this…we have the numbers. All Catholics, all Lutherans, all non-denominational, all Episcopal,all Methodist, all Prespyterians…anyone who believes in the authority of God’s word and Christ as our only savior.That is all who still truely believe and have not bent to world opinion…We could do great things.

Those churches are bending to world opinion and pressure…mainly because they are afraid of losing members and the tithing that they bring in. They are selling out! Let the homosexual population have a civil union if they can get the votes but shame on Christians for compromising their faith in support of it. I am talking the vote here…Christian should not be voting on this but this does not mean we deny them anything, just that we are standing on our own principal. How far are we going to let this go? I was raised Lutheran and now am Baptist…I say shame on those churches who have let members split off into differant synods so they can allow these practices. What they should be saying is get out and form your own church…This is not in line with our doctrine and is against the word of God. You can not truely call yourself a Christian if you are condoning this behavior. Condoning is differant than discrimination…one can not discriminate and still not stand for something.By allowing it on our pulpits and having rituals for it, we are saying to the world that this is okay and the bible is foulable.

We are warned that in the end times, there will be those who have the appearance of Godliness but are not of God. That Churches will fall away and accept false doctrine. I say that we are seeing this first hand…The end is comming faster and I wouldn’t be surprised if electing a non-christian is the way the antichrist will come to power! It is a dangerous path we have started on…I live in the christian capitol of the U.S and we have the wiccan/satanic capitol next door, plus the world famous sex change clinic of choice in this state as well. What is next? I have customers constatly comming in marked with either the wiccan pentagram or the satanic pentagram. When they decide they want to celebrate halloween with a sacrafice in a pentagram, in the middle of main street, are we going to say its okay…Its freedom of religion. That brings me to the point of Halloween. Why are we allowing harvest festivals instead of joint prayer meetings on that night. Satanist and Wiccans will tell you that is their night of greatest power. Satanist will tell you it is when they pray for our downfall in this country. Yet we turn a blind eye and hold harvest festivals. Wake up people…I have gone hiking and come acrossed ceremony sites with burn marks and pentagrams. I have even know witches…This stuff is for real!

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Jack Wellman July 12, 2012 at 4:12 pm

Cat, what a deceived world we have. Don’t worry about it being so long because its an important issue. Just think of this….some day they will have to face the Judge and they will be held to a greater and more strict standard than those who they have mislead. I would not want to be them that day. It is another, as you said, sign of the end times and makes me pray, “Even so Lord, come quickly!”

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Cat July 12, 2012 at 4:09 am

The biggest argument for gay marriage is that they can’t inherite and they can’t control medical decisions for their partners. A civil union takes care of both and other issues such as healthcare. Also, the medical argument is bull…you can fill out a medical power of attorney for anyone you chose. That gives that person the right to make medical decisions for you and they can visit you in the hospital the same as family. In fact, that legal document over-rides anything the family may have to say in the matter. You can get one free from any hospital, or insurance company…fill it out and have it noterized. Give a copy to you representative, doctor, family, and the hospital.

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Dereck July 12, 2012 at 9:22 pm

Hi Cat,

It is so scarey hearing these different things that are taking place at this point in history. The Bible said that this was going to happen. It is hard to see it unfold and watch it go down. We just have to stay on our knees. It is just more evidence that we as believers need to stay in prayer for each other and for the church. Keep the faith.

Dereck

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Pat July 30, 2012 at 9:57 pm

Jack, you said: “The Word of God actually talks about whether the Scriptures are constrained by times and cultures. God has said that His Word abides forever and Jesus said that “heaven and earth will pass away but [His] words will never pass away” (Matt 24:35)”
My question to you is: should we kill our sons as the bible clearly mandates in Deuteronomy 21:18-21, “18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid”
You also said : “Neither should we depend upon human opinions, liberal theologians, sociologists, modern philosophies or on new state laws and constitutions. God’s law are a higher moral standard than that of mankind and even governments and states. If we rely solely on Scripture, we will know the truth. Since the Bible is the Word of God, we must believe what it says and we care not that it’s not popular because it’s more important to believe what God says than what humans think. What is popular is not always the right thing and what is the right thing is not always popular” Should we believe that the laws of this country do not protect the children and we just should kill the stubborn and rebellious kids as the bible mandates?
thanks in advance for your reply!

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Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 2:25 pm

Thank you for your question. Let me say that those Deuteronomy Scriptures you wrote were written to Israel under the Old Covenant. Scriptures are written for us all but all Scripture is not written TOO us. In other words, if a person eats unclean meats, according to the Old Testament, they should be cut off from their people, so obviously we can’t follow the old Mosaic Laws for Christ has brought a new and better covenant. So no, we can not break a law of the government to kill stubborn or rebellious kids because the New Testament is the New Covenant so the Bible does not mandate this.

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Dereck July 31, 2012 at 5:52 pm

Hi Jack,

This was a good question and answer. Tell us what the old and new testaments are used for today?

I think a lot of us get bogged down in what the old testament is used for. There then tends to be some confusion, and stuff that is written is used by gentiles when it was supposed to be used by the Israelites in the time of the law.

Jesus came and released us from the law because we all could not keep the law.

Keep the faith

Dereck

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Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 5:57 pm

Amen Dereck. Thankfully, Jesus fulfilled the Law and kept it perfectly…the only One Who could. Not all of the Old Testament is written TO us but for Israel…although certainly much of the Old Testament still applies, but the Mosaic Laws pointed to the Perfect Lawgiver and only the One Who gave the Law could keep it. I thank God for Jesus Christ that He freed us from most of the Old Testament Laws because not only could we not keep them…we couldn’t be saved by them but by faith alone, in Christ alone for there is no other name whereby men can be saved (Acts 4:14, 16:30-31).

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Dereck July 31, 2012 at 6:43 pm

Also, the new testament tells us in essance that the government is over the people and we should follow the laws that they set.

Now, if there is a law that is not fair or is unjust, then there is a way to go about disputing that law so that it can be changed.

When Jesus was here, he told us, “render to Caesar what is Caesars”. The pharacees were trying to trap Jesus over the tax that was to be paid to King Caesar. Jesus was going to follow the laws that were set by the government, this was an example to us.

Dereck

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Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 6:48 pm

Said perfectly Dereck. You have said it better than I could in a hundred pages. So well put and so eloquently my friend.

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Pat August 1, 2012 at 5:30 pm

Hi Jack, thank you for your reply.

Jack, I want to clarify that you are the one who said: “God has said that His Word abides forever“.
You are the one who used the Old Testament (Lev 18:22 Lev 20:13) against homosexuals. You said and reaffirmed that we can not change the word of God (The Bible) So, at first you used the Old Testament against homosexuals to defend your position, and you said the word of God is eternal. Now you are saying: that those Deuteronomy Scriptures were written to Israel under the Old Testament, and we can not follow them because they are too hard to follow and you gave us an example. You also said: Not all of the Old Testament is written TO us but for Israel. I personally don’t believe it was fine to kill the stubborn and rebellious kids two thousand years ago and neither is RIGHT in this present moment, in 2012 in America. I doubt that parents loved their children less in those days than we do now.

You also said: “Christ has brought a new and better covenant, the New Testament is the New Covenant”.
I am glad you are defending the New testament now because, it was Jesus who said in (The New Testament) Mathew 15:3-4 “Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, Honor your father and mother and Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death”. As you can see these are Jesus own words in the New Testament, he is saying the same as the Old Testament. It’s not like you are saying now.

Jesus also said (Mathew 5:17)“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not
the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”.(This means ALL will not be accomplished until Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trump).
According to Jesus own words, these stubborn kids are supposed be put to death, He validates the Old Testament laws.

The question is very simply: are we going to kill our kids for stubborn, rebellious for cursing us, just because the bible says it is what Jesus said? I surely don’t think so.
How far can we go and use the bible against people we don‘t like? How much hatred we have in our hearts that make us blind and push us to use the bible against some people and to defend what it’s convenient to us.

If you are using the bible against homosexuals because it‘s the word of God, then you will have to use it against ALL stubborn and rebellious kids, other wise you are just a person who pretends to have virtues, moral and religious beliefs, that you do not actually possess, You will be a person whose actions contradicts stated beliefs.

Jesus said perfectly: You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.

I am going to pray that no one will come and use the bible not only against homosexuals but also against our stubborn and rebellious kids.
I hope the wisdom of God illuminate your mind and help you to use the bible to create harmony instead of discrimination against homosexuals, after all they are just people like yourself, nothing less nothing more.

God Bless you.

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Jack Wellman August 1, 2012 at 7:01 pm

Thank you Pat. So you are saying that homosexual behavior is okay? No one has to use the Bible against homosexuals….the Bible itself is God-breathed and so God speaks against this. I pray for you too for God to make you more clearly see that Romans 1 and 1 Timothy 1, 1 Cor. 6, 1 Peter 1, etc… many more New Testament Scriptures speak against this. It is not my opinion or a talk-show opinion but God’s Word and it can not be broken. Read 1 John chapter 3. Many who used to be homosexual have come out of their sins, just as I have from drug abuse and stealing. There are people like Peter and Paul that speak this so you can not silence them. I am not discriminating against them, the Bible says homosexuality is sin, not me. If you have a problem with it, take it up with God’s Word and God Himself.

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Cat August 2, 2012 at 3:50 am

It is so sad to hear people who claim to be Christian stand in defense of something God is so clear on…It has been my experience that many who take this stand are either in a same sex relationship and trying to justify their actions with their religion, or they have family members who are in such a relationship.

I speak from experience on this matter as my cousin is in a committed Lesbian relationship. It breaks all of our hearts, especially my aunts… She knows Gods word on this and that the family is against her actions. On the same hand she knows that we love her and pray for her! The way this is handled is that we don’t treat her any differant than any family member which means that nobody is rude, or disrespectful of her partner. However, when the subject comes up, we do not stand down from our faith and its teachings. My aunt has made it clear that as a mother she will always love her daughter but that means telling her about God’s stance on this issue, even while trying to be respectful. This is my aunts biggest error in life…You see she was raised Christian but got into drugs and many men…getting pregnant before marriage twice. My cousin grew up seeing these men cheat and abuse her mother. As a result, she admits that she is this way because she doesn’t trust men due to the experiences of her childhood. My aunt knows that her actions led her child astry and by the time my cousin was in her teens, she had changed and tried to instill Christian values in her children. She was a little more sucessful with her younger son but failed to change in time to save her daughter…She will never give up trying however!

I was just talking about this with my neighbor the other day…she said she had just discussed this with her mother (a ministers’ wife) earlier that day as well. Her mothers’ words hold true…Where someone stands on this issue is relative to their relationship with God and the Holy Spirit! If the Spirit is truely within you, then he will open your eyes to the truth of Gods’ word when you read the scriptures pertaining to this topic! I know there are times when I read the scriptures and they are just words…lessons yes, but not really speaking to my heart at the moment! A minister once spoke on this and he said that when that happens, we know that that particular message/scripture was not meant to be our mail…However there are other times when I read something and I know God is speaking directly to me as it is relevant to something in my life that I am struggling with, or that I have prayed for an answer on! Then I know that it is MY MAIL! It doesn’t mean that I will never need to read that scripture, or that it will never pertain to me…I may read that scripture later and get much from it. It just means that wasn’t the priority of what I needed to hear at that time!

The sad thing is that many so called Christians read the Bible and never have a moment of Clarity on anything they read…Its just words and lessons but not personnal. They may read parts of the Bible and believe themselves to be knowledgeable on a subject but do not realize that you have to take Gods’ word in Context as it is very easy to misunderstand, or justify something based on one scripture alone that may have its meaning changed when you read all the scripture pertaining to that subject. Its even more sad that they never stop to question why what they read is so inpersonnal…They never stop to ask if they are truely right with God! I am afraid that this is how the False doctrine we are warned about again and again, is introduced to so many churches. We are warned that many will claim to be of God but God will not be in them…many churches will be caught up in worldliness and accept false doctrine! With this we are also warned that those of us who stand against the world view, strong in the true word of God, will be hated and persecuted!

I truely believe that this topic of accepting Homosexual relationships within our churches is going to be the dividing line…Christians who bow to worldliness over here and those who stand with the word, stand over there! I am afraid that many are going to bow to the world which leaves us in the minority! However, are we surprised? For the antichrist to rise to power, we have to have this come to pass, otherwise we would have the numbers to stop it! No…this is the start of something…with Christians taking sides…Just read the internet stories and comments on Chick Filet. They do not discriminate but simply stating their personnal values, which is their right in this country, has brought hate statements against them and discrimination on them because of their faith. When I read that story what I heard was that the homosexual community has the right to declare anyone who does not believe in their cause, as being prejudice! Doesn’t matter that nobody has discriminated against anyone…stating your belief is enough to be judged! The homosexual community can pay money to lobby for a bill and thats okay, but God forbid anyone else pay money to lobby against it! That is a double standard and that is discrimination against Christians who stand for the word of God dispite the world opion!!!

Jack, I struggle so hard with my faith…I worry that God will not find me a very worthy Christian! I need to read my bible more and pray more than I do…I talk to him all day but I need to be more respectful in having time to formally pray! Like most, I get caught up in the rush of the world and being single, there is not anyone to pray with at the end of the day. I know I need balance in my life that a partner in Christ would provide…someone to help with balancing the worries of the world which seem overwhelming when dealing with alone and someone to slap me upside the head when I stray to far off Gods’ road. However, there seems to be a shortage of single Godly Christian men in my age group. Until God chooses to place someone in my path, I guess I will have to do the best I can and pray God continues to help me grow until I am worthy in his eyes. I can tell you when, or if he sends someone, I will go willingly wherever he calls my husband and do whatever he ask with a willing heart! Sadly, the last time I prayed on that a few wks ago, I randomly opened my bible to the scripture about how it was better to be single…how an unmarried woman devotes herself to God! Jack, that was not what I was hoping to hear…lol! I was married and the single life sucks! I can say that when I read the scriptures on homosexuality, the Spirit is very clear to me on Gods’ stance against this abomination. I reread the scripture you included to Pat and once again, I stand with you and Gods’ word without any doubt!!! I have vacation next week and I am hoping to go on a solitary camping trip…It is the only way I find I can clear the clutter out of my head and really hear what God is trying to tell me clearly…I think I will make a bible study out of this topic and see if anything else comes out of it! The last time, I did a study on “Christian Love” and “Forgiveness” and boy did God give me a lesson…Sadly my OLD Church wouldn’t let me share it due to the fact that I was a woman and couldn’t teach in church!

Dereck August 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm

Hi Pat,

May I ask you what kind of Bible you are reading from?

I am some what confused as toi the scripture in Mathew where Jesus supposedly says something about killing rebellouis children?

Thanks

Dereck

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Cat August 2, 2012 at 8:19 am

Pat…I know your intentions and heart are good but you are being misled on this subject. I pray that you will take the time to do an intense bible study on this and pray that the Spirit will guide your heart and mind in understanding! You may want to try something that never fails me…I only do this when I am in real need of guidance from God. It is usually on subject that I am so torn on that I cry literally while praying on it. After I finish praying, I close my eyes and flip and twist my bible until I no longer know which way is up. Then I open to the first place my hands go to….God never fails to lead me to something that I need guidance on and 9 out of 10 times it is the exact thing I was praying for clarity on! Then I cross referance with other scriptures to ensure my understanding is correct…It is amazing but those are the bible studies that really bare fruit for me and I can feel the presence of the Spirit guiding me in my understanding!

The bible says to love the person and hate the sin! This does not mean we discriminate but that we admonish the sinner 2 Thessalonian 3: 14-15 “And if any man obey not our word by this epsistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.”….It it is our duty to lovingly teach them what Gods’ will is on that particular sin. I have been admonished before and it is sometimes not easy to hear but I have learned to go to my bible for study and prayer. Usually I have to agree in the end with what I have been corrected on. The bible tells us that this is our duty as a Christian!

The bible speaks on the issues of homosexuality very clearly in the old and new testiments. Yes, some of the old testiment no longer is to be practiced by Christians but that is because Christ comming either immediately changed the need for that old law, or Christ himself spoke against the need to follow the old teachings! However, this is an issue that we are instructed on again in the new testiment and its teachings are the same as in the old…nothing changed. It is called an abomination unto God! This is very strong wording which makes clear God’s stance!

I want to warn you to reread what the new testiment says about the end times, especially about Churches having fallen away by accepting worldliness and false doctrine! So called Christians claiming Godliness but not being of God! 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ” Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having thier conscience seared with a hot iron.”…2 Timothy 4:3-4 ” For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth , and shall be turned unto fables”. Titus 1:16 ” They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” Jude 1:18-19 ” How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lust. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit”. We are told that Christ will not come “except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition:”….”and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2 Thessalonians 2: various verses). The issue is not about civil unions but about the insistance that they have the right to marry and be recognized in churches…Marriage is a sacred ceremony in the church and should not be defiled! The bible defines it as a union between an man and a woman only and it is a clear definition! When addressing false teachers, 1 John 4:5-6 states ” They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”
I also suggest that you read 1 Timothy 1 in which we are warned about teaching false doctrine and those who “having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm”…….”knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodimites(homosexuals),for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,”.

The bible also says that those of us who stand with the true word of God will be hated and persecuted as the end nears! 2 Timothy 3:12 ” Yea, and all that will live godly in CHrist Jesus shall suffer persecution.” We are also toldby Paul in 2 Cor. 12:10 “Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”

I urge you to continue to read and learn, growing in your Faith. May God Bless you sister and the Holy Spirit guide you in your faith!

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Jack Wellman August 2, 2012 at 2:35 pm

Amen Cat. I could not have said it better myself. I sense you have such a deep theological understanding of the Bible and must say that any church that has you as a member is truly richer by far. I will try to not covet your membership in the C.S., Colorado area. God bless and thank you so much for speaking the truth.

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Cat August 3, 2012 at 4:00 am

Thank You Jack…Thanks even more for this site…The post here cause me to think and dig deep into my upbringing within the church. The topics and conversation inspire me to go to my bible, refreshing what I know, cross referancing and reading other scripture to increase my knowledge and understanding! I confessed that I am one who struggles finding time to read as I should and this site is a big help in that area. For all intensive purposes, I am without a minister at the moment and you have helped fill that void in many ways. I told you that I am looking for a new church….Not because of bad doctrine, or teaching, they are very good at that really! My issue is that I am not being encouraged in ways that I need to contribute to my growth and their are no singles, or followship outside of church which I am in desprite need of! Like many, those in the church are caught-up in their own crisis and in all fairness, my pastors family has been hit very hard this last yr with their own crisis. I have been a member for about a yr and a half…nobody ever calls to see if I am well, or why I have missed so much church and when i may be back. Yes, they assume its my job and most of the time it is but there have been rare other times I have had hard time going when I know nobody really cares if I am there. I have never been asked what I am studying, or even if I am studying on my own. I know this is because their sight is fixed on raising up Godly men who will be responsible for seeing to their familys’ education and understanding of scripture and that works if you are a married woman. However, it leaves us single women out in the cold, struggling to find our place within the church and nothing but the Spirit to guide us in our studies and understanding! So if I am gaining in thealogical understanding, it is knowledge I gained as a child for the most part, being put to the challange and test by this site! Which means that means that you and this site are at least in some part responsible for that understanding because of the opportunities provided for growth and the use of that knowledge!

If you could find a scholorship specifically covering living expenses, I might be tempted to move…lol! The state of Colorado actually offered me a full schlorship to finish my B.A. and my Masters in psychology and possibly theological studies. The only catch was that they pay for all my education but take anything gotten from schlorships not specifically given for living expenses. Since I was cut down to part-time and can’t find full time work, or locate a schlorship yet, they withdrew their offer until such time as I can pay for those living expenses. I had hoped to get into Christian counselling and was going to attempt to petition the state to cover tuition at a Christian university.

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Jack Wellman August 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm

Cat, how sad that they do not provide evangelism opportunities or teaching opportunities except only for married women. That is discriminatory in my humble opinion. You may not know that I am an unpaid, bi-vocational pastor that has to work to support myself. The church I pastor at is the Mulvane Brethren Church, in Mulvane, Kansas, just SE of Wichita, KS. They have about several thousands of dollars in the bank, yet the will not pay me even the Pulpit Supply rate of $100 a week and I get no support from them in funds, insurance, expenses, not even Christmas, Birthday or thank you cards. I am not in it for the money anyway but the national denomination’s headquarters in Ashland, Ohio has put up new requirements for 3 summer intensives at their seminary campus in Ashland and a 165 page document to go thru and take memory tests of their policies, procedures, and the history and memorize all of their sacramental elements to a “T.” They believe that since the church does zero evangelism with me that I should not be doing the same. I moved our Bible study to the local nursing home, Sunday school to the restuarant, I do street evangelizing, door to door witnessing, thrift store ministry, etc..and not even one of them will go with me. I think they are small because they won’t evangelize. I told them to grow they must “GO!” yet they are a Laodicean type of church and I am not sure how much longer I will be here in my church as HQ is not supportive of evangelism/missionary work. I have became my own missionary to my city. I have to work as a janitor/trash man and a writer on What Christians Want to Know to support myself and my schooling (which I have dropped out for now). I have a once a week homeless ministry, work as a pastor, janitor, Outreach, Sunday sermons, and I have one teen at home left who is in band, forensics, choir, and more so I attend her activities and sports too in Summer. So I really appreciate your prayers as I am so exhausted and have to work out in heat part of the day and the last 5 weeks have been 100-112 and its killing me here in Southern Kansas. I get tons of persecution, most of which is from other Christians, believe it or not. Thanks for your support and gracious comments sister. I wish I knew of scholarships for you but if I hear of one, I will let you now. For now, enter into the Search Box “How to Witness to Family” or anything on evangelism and you will many ways to share the gospel with anyone, anywhere as I do at work, on the street, in the store…

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Cat August 3, 2012 at 4:33 am

P.S. What I really want to do someday, is be a missionary! Since most churches will not send, or back single women, I guess I am out of luck until God chooses to send me a partner of the same heart! The Christian counselling is a way to do some good for God and still pay the bills with maybe enough left over to go on the occasional missions trip…I don’t want to preach, I just want a chance to serve him by example somewhere where people have been deprived of experiencing Christian Love in action!

I don’t know if you ever heard of the evangalist/missionary Frank Gonzales and his group which went by the names “The God Squad, or Freedom Sound”? He made rounds every year throughout the U.S. and Mexico, and other countries at one point. Frank and his family were close friends of my Paternal Grandparents and whenever they came to First Church of God in Sacramento, CA., they stayed at Grandma and Grandpas’. I remember playing with his two older girls and remember his wife Jeannie fondly. Frank was the one who brought me to Christ when I was a Child. I so admired him and his family and decided early on that I would join his group when I graduated. Well, like many young people, I fell in love and got married instead…big misteak as my ex was not Christian! Up until Frank died, my Grandmother would tell me that he asked about me and still said I was meant to have joined his group. I have often wondered what my life would have been like if I had followed that path, the same path I am pulled back toward now but no longer have the means to pursue??? If you have not heard about Frank and his testimony, you should really look his memorial website up online and read it….That man had one of the strongest testimonies about his calling that I have ever heard. A true inspiration and example about ignoring Gods calling in favor of ones own heart! That man could sing and preach like nobody I have heard since.

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Dereck August 2, 2012 at 5:23 pm

Hi Cat,

Keep the faith. I am praying for ya.

Peace and Love

Dereck

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Cat August 3, 2012 at 3:23 am

Dereck…Thank you so much! I recieved a long email from Pat that is not showing up on this site at the moment…The scripture she is refering to about putting children to death for disobedience is Matthew 15:3-4 and this seems to be the only scripture given as a justification to the acceptance of homosexuality within the church! I kind of got a short repeat of what she gave to Jack. Sad because it is being taken out of context and the whole arguement has no weight, or authority!

If we are to accept homeosexuality simply based on the arguement that we are ignoring what the bible says about putting children to death, while unfairly persecutting the homosexual lifestyle, her arguement fails! This is an example why we should be careful about taking one piece of scripture out of context when teaching the word of God…She has forgotten to mention John 8, in which a adulterous woman was to be stoned to death under the old Hebrew law. Christ told us not to judge but to leave that to his father. Instead, he choose to forgive her and then showed us an example of admonishing her when he told her to go and sin no more! What Pat is failing to recognize is that anyone who was sexually immoral was put to death under the old Hebrew law…I am sure that would have included homosexuals! Christ changed how the punishment of breaking the law was carried out. No longer was its enforcement a church matter…he taught us to show Christian love (loving the sinner but hating the sin), while instructing us to admonish each other, giving loving but firm instruction to those among us who are not behaving in ways acceptable to God. He did this because our God is a loving God who wants everyone to be instructed properly and given every chance to change before we die. Once we die, we will all face judgement in front of God and it is he who will give out punishment accourding to his laws for anything we failed to repent from. When Christ came, we all had the opportunity to be saved and so God being just and loving, tolk back the enforcement of those laws in order to give us every opportunity until the day we die, to change our ways and be forgiven!

With that being said, this posting is about same sex marriage, not disobedient children! If someone was asking about disobedient children, I would tell them to admonish the disrespectful and disobedient children. I would educate the children on how they are sinning, which means that I would tell them how the old Hebrew laws worked and how they will have to answer to God on judgement day if they do not repent and correct their sin! Yes, we no longer put children to death for their sin but we also no longer put sexually immoral people to death for those sins either! I wouldn’t want to have to do either and am greatful that all God requires of me is to admonish the sinner for their sin and greatful that I am no longer required to enforce complience! Even if one over looks the scripture on stoning, we are still instructed to give unto Ceazer what is his and that includes obeying the laws of our government…Putting someone to death for breaking religious laws is against those laws. We are instructed to uphold the laws of our government and those law makers will have to face Gods judgement if the laws they make are in defience of holy law.

It is hard for me to accept that there will be those whose ears will be closed to the truth…Who will bend their faith to fit their own desires and those of the world. Sad but I truely believe that is what is going on here. I know it would be so easy to take this view myself so that I would not have to worry about my cousins salvation but the hope for my family is that my cousin acknowledges she is in direct disobedience to Gods will…She knows what she must do to gain favor is the Lords eyes! This gives us great hope that God will place lessons in her life to strengthen her spirit to the point that she will find the courage to change!

In the meantime, may everyone on this site find strength, encouragement, and peace during these difficult times and those still comming! God Bless you all with the courage of conviction and the gifts of decernment!

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Pat August 3, 2012 at 10:38 am

Cat,
That was a really good explantion, excellent! You were very clear! I want to apologize to everybody if I offendended you, I think this is a missunderstandig. If you read my posts, I never deffended homosexuality! I am simply againts the missuse of the Holy Bible. Pleas Jack forgive me for what I said and thanks Cat for this clarification, you are one of those good Christian, you are an example for all of us. Dereck I recomend you to read “5 Tips for Picking te Best Bible Translation” by Jack, here in this website, it’s excellent.
God bless you all.

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Dereck August 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm

Hi Pat,

I was just wondering what version of the Bible you were taking your scripture from so I could better understand the point you were making. I thank you so much for your post.

Let us all remember the Love of Jesus that we do not deserve, but I so much depend on.

Keep the faith,

Peace and Love

Dereck

P.S. Pat I will look into that version of the scriptures you told me.

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Pat August 4, 2012 at 10:36 am

Hi Dereck, I quoted the New International Version (NIV) it is my favorite!. If you would like to have more than one translation, I recommend you to go to the “Christianbook” web site. They have prices as low as $4.49, I actually own the NEW King James Version (NKJV), the New Living Translation (NLT) and the English Standar Version (ESV) they are all wonderful.

God bless you all

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Dereck August 4, 2012 at 1:45 pm

Thaks Pat,

I own a King James version as well as a new living translation. I anted to be able to study that scripture from mathew you said. Thanks

Peace and Love

Dereck

Ken August 6, 2012 at 1:56 pm

Cat,
Thank you for clarifying Old Testament law vs. New Testament. A friend of mine called yesterday saying he was in a discussion on facebook about why Christians would condemn homosexuality yet ignore the stoning, multiple wives, or a wife marrying a brother if her husband dies. All these mentioned in the Old Testament. I must admit I had a hard time trying to answer his question other than the fact that he go to the New Testament and see what Jesus had to say. I’m going to direct him to this website and have him read your answer. I think this will help him as it did me when discussing such a tough subject. BTW, thanks Jack for such an open and biblically honest forum!

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Dereck August 6, 2012 at 4:05 pm

Hi Ken,

I wanted to commend you for being humble enough to come here and say that you did not know how to direct your friend on where to go and get the answer. I have come to this site many times to ask questions so that I can go in the right direction.

As Jack and others on this site will tell you, we are now under grace. Jesus Christ ushered in this period. The old testament was under the law. Now, we as human beings,we could not keep the law. Just take a look at some of the thngs that were permisable under the law. You mentioned stoning, imagine us doing that now. Our society could not handle that now.

So, in the future, if you don’t know how to procede on a matter, come to this site and get some good direction.

Peace and Love my brother

Keep the Faith

Dereck

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Jack Wellman August 6, 2012 at 6:57 pm

Dereck…I believe you must be next of kin to Barnabas…who is called the Son of Encouragement or Consolation. One of my greatest joys of heaven will be to rejoice with you and meet the saint-man that I have grown to love and respect so much. Your spirit of humility and quite meekness is such a refreshing thing to my soul in all these days where I get much attacks and predominantly from other Christians. I covet your prayers and friendship, just as I do Cat’s, for you two are so special and make this website such a awesome experience. Thank you both and I thank God FOR you both.

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Dereck August 7, 2012 at 9:58 am

Hi Jack,

Thank-you so much for saying such kind words. I do not think of myself as such a person. I just wanted to encourage a fellow brother, believer. I just wanted to do what was on my heart. Such a comparison, I believe I do not deserve.

Keep doing what you do.

Keep the faith, brother.

Dereck

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Ken August 6, 2012 at 9:19 pm

Hey Derek,
Thanks for those words of encouragement. God’s not looking for perfection, only progress. I really believe this website will help my progressive walk with my Lord and Savior.

Peace & Love to you as well my brother

Ken

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Jack Wellman August 6, 2012 at 6:59 pm

Thank you so much Ken. I have learned so much since this site began and it truly has been rewarding with meeting such Christian and godly men and women such as you sir and Cat, who is truly a woman after God’s own heart.

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Ken August 6, 2012 at 9:26 pm

Jack, I sent a neighbor to this website to read about why bad things happen to good people. His wife lost her battle with cancer in June and I feel that some of the answers he read here were comforting to him. Thanks for all that you do.

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Jack Wellman August 7, 2012 at 3:08 pm

Thank you so much Ken. I am sorry for your neighbor’s loss but perhaps this article would help. Its called “Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People” at:

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/why-do-bad-things-happen-to-good-people/

Thank you so much for your kind words Ken. God bless you friend.

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Cat August 7, 2012 at 2:28 am

Thank you Ken…I am glad that I could be of help! It was not long ago that I was in a church which did not encourage women to teach on any of this…we had no opinion of our own and anything we had to say had to go through our husbands. I was not married which meant I had no say at all! What can I say, they had control issues as some churches do, even if their hearts desired to do well in God’s eyes. This site has helped me to find my voice again and reignited a desire to learn and pass on what I have learned to others. Funny thing is that sometimes I find that I know more than I recall…I will read something and the Spirit takes over and I am surprised what comes out on paper. This was the case with that last posting on same sex marriage…I am humbled to have been of service is some way and amazed at what the Spirit can do with someone like me! I am proof that even if you have difficulty memorizing scripture word for word, if you have heard it , or read it at one time, it is within you somewhere and accessible when you need it most!

God Bless you… Cat

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Ken August 7, 2012 at 6:05 pm

Cat,
God is using you in so many ways! I would venture to say that you’d be amazed of just how many people you have blessed. Lotta people out there searching. Christians such as you, Derek, Pat, and or course Jack, can help those lost souls start a personal relationship with Christ.

Ken

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Jack Wellman August 7, 2012 at 6:48 pm

Ken, you are spot on the mark about Cat, Pat, and Dereck sir and I believe God is using you as well. I appreciate godly men of faith such as you friend.

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Cat August 8, 2012 at 4:26 am

Ken…Thank you for the kind words. I was thinking about your friend who you are directing to this posting about same sex marriages. While I was on lunch today I went through and read so of the old Mosaic Hebrew Law…Lev 20:21, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman,both of them have commited an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.” I wanted to add this so that if anyone else wants to read up on the old law reguarding all sexual immorality, they can find it.

Thanks again…Cat

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Ken August 9, 2012 at 11:48 am

Thanks Cat for the additional scripture. I really think all that you have posted will help my friend in his discussion with others on sexual immorality.

Dani December 28, 2012 at 12:33 pm

Hello Cat
My apologies if I’ve missed some explanation along the line… you say women at your old church and had no say unless through their husbands. THAT’S BIBLICAL… that is exactly what Paul said was right… the very man that said homosexuals can’t go enter the kingdom of God. You say that your Church has control issues for it???
Cat that is what the bible recommended… the same one that say homosexuality is sinful. Accept all the words. If you would wish a homosexual a life of celibacy to show their obiedience to God then take your life as a voiceless unmarried lady with pride… until you marry of course, I hope you do, then your husband can talk for you. Much love

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Pat August 8, 2012 at 3:10 pm

Hi Ken,
the best way to talk about the goodness of Jesus is to testify. You should talk about the virtues of marriage between a man and a woman. How wonderful and proud you can be having children and grandchildren and how happy you can be sharing all your life with your spouse. Statistics have shown that most gay relationships only last for 3 or 5 years, that can be really sad for a person and draw that person to emptiness. But you don’t need to mention this. Unless you are a parent speaking to your child, no one wants to put up with being told what to do. More so, being accused of their wrong actions and diminish them. They’ll start firing right back and you may find yourself in a heated argument without any need, you may ruin a possible friendship and you will loose the opportunity to talk about God. Your main goal should be to spread the word of God. You are not going to make someone straight by telling him he is a sinner. Your main goal is to convince this person of starting a relationship with Jesus Christ a direct connection with the Lord but he is not going to do that if you start by hurting his feelings. You don’t want him to see you as an ignorant person, a tribal man talking about stoning people. If you talk about the goodness of God, people can’t get defensive and they will listen to you. They will see the goodness of being Christian, heterosexual or celibate. We don’t really want to draw more people toward other religions, like Buddhists and the like. We want to bring more people to our church and study the bible with them. Who knows, that gay man may be a totally different person not in a year o three, he may comeback to you in 10 years and say: “Ken, thank you for showing me the path to God I am not a sinner anymore” That day you will feel closer to God too.

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Jack Wellman August 8, 2012 at 3:21 pm

Pat, this is so beautifully put my friend and so loving. I agree that we can not go up to any homosexual, and indeed, any non-Christian and say to their face, “You’re a sinner.” How true because I myself am one…just a forgiven sinner. I am no better than they are…I have just been forgiven. That doesn’t make me better. Sharing the gospel is like one beggar sharing good news with another. We are on level ground. I love the approach you mentioned to Ken. I thank God that He sent you here. What a blessing. Thank you for such a biblically sound answer Pat.

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Ken August 9, 2012 at 12:01 pm

Wow Pat!
What an awesome post. Thank you for showing that our love through Christ can change people. I have to admit that on occasions I can be like Peter and get a little “ticked off” when talking to non-believers. Last thing I want to do is turn them off to Christ. You’ve given great examples on how to approach the lost. I’m going refer to your post many times.

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Pastor Gail October 12, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Pat August 7, 2012 at 12:17 pm

Hi Cat, it’s unfortunately that some churches still want to misuse the bible to create discrimination among us. When I was little my mom used to take us to a church which proclaimed the same, based on the bible,
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”. I think it’s so sad that those churches still have female members. I think it’s very wrong that some societies and churches insist in misusing the bible to create discrimination and inequality. We can not forget that based on religious misconceptions women did not have access to higher education before 1848. While a few women might attend a female seminary or academy, they were not allowed into colleges and universities. For those pioneering women who did go to college, they faced many critics. Some of the harshest were the catholic churches. We also have to remember that women did not have the right to vote until August 26, 1920, when the Nineteenth Amendment to the
United States Constitution became law, and women could finally vote.
I am completely against churches that ignore Jesus Teachings and prefer to use other parts of the bible over Jesus own words. I think, when in doubt, we have to follow our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ teachings over any other prophet. Your church it’s ignoring that women were so important to Jesus Christ that Mary Magdalene status in early Christianity was as high, if not higher, as Peter’s. The Bible gives us clues about her importance. After his resurrection, Jesus first appeared Mary Magdalene not Peter, according to the Gospel of John. Mary Magdalene announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord.” In other scriptures, her name is first in the list of witnesses (Mk. 16:1-11; Mt. 28:1; Luke. 24:10; Jn. 20:11-18; 1 Cor. 15:5-8).
There is no doubt that your church it’s creating inequality and gender discrimination. You deserve a better congregation.

God bless you all

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Dereck August 7, 2012 at 5:21 pm

Hi Pat,

Great informatiom!! Cat, I wonder what your church would say about my church. The Co-Paster is the Pastors wife. She is a powerful speaker and knows the Bible. I have not heard the membership say anything. Our membership is around 3,000.

I do not understand where these churches are coming from. Jesus clearly informed us about this. They sound so much like the law.

Keep the faith everyone.

Peace and Love

Dereck

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Jack Wellman August 7, 2012 at 6:46 pm

Dereck, Cat has been such a tremendous blessing as have you brother. I thank God for Cat and for you too.

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Cat August 8, 2012 at 4:16 am

Thanks Dereck and Pat…I no longer go to that one church of which I was referring to in my Post. Their views on women, control issues, and theology issues couldn’t be fought anymore…When I had trouble leaving my only friends, God tolk that decision out of my hands causing three devestating issues to occure at once. The only answer to all of them was to move and find another church.

I am old school in that I do believe the office of Pastor is held biblically for men (no offense to your co-pastor). However I also know that God intented us to be active in our churches, not wall flowers. That wouldn’t further the goals of the Great Commision. We can do many thing such as teach sunday school to adults and children. Head outreach groups to evangalize in any number of ways, etc…

The greatest Pastors in my Life have had great wives who were very active in supporting their husband ministry in hands on ways. I believe that they make the heart of the church!

God Bless you both…Cat

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Kathleen August 29, 2012 at 1:44 am

Hello Pastor Jack, I’m a high school student from NZ and tonight our MP’s are voting for the gay-marriage bill.

Unfortunately, I’m pretty certain it is going to pass. Because of this bill, I have been in disputes with christians over whether they’re for it or not. When defending my beliefs with not agreeing with gay-marriage, I didn’t know many scriptures to justify my statements but thanks to this, I am far better prepared and feel confident with what I believe in. However, I do have a question for you.

My friend has challenged me with this “Why should Christian values dictate our laws in a democratic nation?” He says that “instead of shunning [gays] or condemning them of sin, we should show them a better way. Isn’t that what Jesus did?”

How do I answer this?

I do not believe that gay-marriage should be legalised. I understand that they feel discriminated against and that they feel unequal because of this but God created man and woman in His image and I don’t believe we should challenge that or put God to the test.

Please help me.

Kathleen

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Jack Wellman August 29, 2012 at 2:36 pm

Hello Kathleen. Thank you for standing up for the faith once delivered. You asked,

“Why should Christian values dictate our laws in a democratic nation?” He says that “instead of shunning [gays] or condemning them of sin, we should show them a better way. Isn’t that what Jesus did?”

It is not Christians values that should be dictating laws in democratic (or any) nation. We are not Oprah Winfrew offering our opinion. It is God’s Word that we stand on. These are not our own opinions but God’s opinion from the Bible. Tell them that we believe God this is what GOD says…We are also not condemning them to hell…people send their own selves to hell by their rejecting Jesus Christ as Savior who tells everyone to repent and believe or you shall all likewise perish.

We are not to shun them or condemn them to hell for we are all sinners but Christians have been forgiven. We are not sinless but we do sin less and have had the wrath of God removed from us. Stand strong. God says it is wrong. Tell them to take it up with God. They are trying to blame the messengers but it is the Message from God that they ultimately will have to answer for and to whom they are to listen.

Jesus did show them a better way but to the prostitute that was caught in adultery, He said, “Your sins are forgiven…now go and sin NO MORE.” That is Jesus’ way. No compromise. Love them, pray for them, but tell the the truth and what God says…and not what we think. Does this help?

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patrick September 6, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Hello, my names Patrick. Reading this actually made me cry. I didn’t choose to be homosexual, I’m not attracted to woman at all. I go to church every Sunday but reading this I was obviously born damned. So why should I waste anytime living a damned life? Why would you not encourage people like me to just end it all? Its what should probably happen. If we are sin and going to hell, why live a life of fear and all that? Reading this, I know there’s nothing left to do.

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Jack Wellman September 6, 2012 at 5:44 pm

Hello Patrick. Let em say that I am not going to judge you. There is victory possible in Jesus Christ and none of us, especially me, are sinless. We battle all of our lives to conquer sin and even the great Apostle Paul did things that he didn’t want to do and yet could not always do what he knew he should. I urge you to read about his struggle with sin in Romans 7. No one is without hope. We can do all things through Christ Who will strengthen you. I came from prison, drug abuse, alcoholism, theivery, and a debauched lifestyle and it took me many years, thru God’s help, in overcoming. Never give up my friend. I care for you. I love all people and I would never say to you that you are condemned to hell. God desires to help you.

I wrote this in the hopes that people would repent, confess their sins, and place their trust in Christ. When you do this, you will still sin, as none of us will ever be sinless in this life…but we will sin less. Please don’t give up Patrick. I will pray for you. It takes time, prayer, and constant confession and battling takes a lifetime. In fact, sanctification is a lifelong process. I beg you to not give up for He loves you so much. He died for all of us….and I am no better than you…I am still a sinner, but just forgiven.

Read 1 John 1:9, place your trust in Christ to save you and to put the battle in His hands. You are not damned my friend…as long as you draw breath, you still have a chance at eternal life. The very fact that you cried shows me that the Holy Spirit may be convicting you and then trying to help show the way and the Father called you (John 6:44) to come to Him thru Christ. The fact that you came to this article shows me that you desire to be with God for eternity. Please Patrick, keep in touch. Did my comments help you sir. That is my great desire.

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Dereck September 6, 2012 at 10:54 pm

Hello Patrick,

I am praying for you. It is my hope that you not give up on yourself. Do as Jack instructs you. He points you to the scriptures that would help you. You were put here by God for a reason.

We all have gone through or are going through some type of struggle. I have believed in God almost my whole life, and I still did things that only made me feel good. I know that was not the way God intended for me to live my life.

So, all of us are struggling to sin less. That is what I am striving for, and the best way to do that is to get into the book (the Bible), and get closer to Christ who does not look at our sin.

Jesus Christ paid for all of our sins and the least I can do, is serve him.

Do not give up on yourself because Jesus has not.

Peace and Love

Dereck

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Jack Wellman September 11, 2012 at 8:34 pm

Thank you so much Dereck. Well said my friend. I remember when my children did something that I asked them to do, they came to me with big beaming smiles and were so pleased that they could please “pa pa” and this was their true expression of love. Love you brother.

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Cat September 7, 2012 at 4:02 am

Patrick…I pray that God will let you feel his presence and give you peace, as you fight this battle togather. Pastor Jack is right…God loves you and he has a purpose for you, my guess is at least some of that purpose is connected with your currant battle. He never gives any of us trials that we are not strong enough to handle and if you learn to put your trust in him, then just think of the powerful testimony you will have!

Remember God does not make misteaks, so if he truelly made you this way, then he has a purpose for it! He would never make you a homosexual just so he could damn you to hell! He wants you to repent and call on him for help, as we all repeatedly must do once saved. The Path you choose to walk and the fight you wholeheartedly make, will be your testimony to others. Do you think your sin is any more immoral than any other sin based on lust and desire? How many of us this day in age wait until marriage to have sex? I can tell you that at one point, most of us have fallen due to lust and sexual desire. The bible says that even thinking immoral sexual thoughts are a sin. I don’t know one Christian that can say they never had an impure thought. I am a divorced woman and I can honestly tell you that I battle this constantly…It is not easy to stay chaste in this society but that is my goal every day! I can’t even get a date because the moment I let someone know that I am a Christian who strives to live the lifestyle, the guy runs so fast…lol! Remember, God forgives if you truelly repent and strive to resist the urges of the human body and heart! We all have sins that we struggle with and try with all our heart to resist but there are times we will fall, especially in the beginning. God knows this and he knows your heart! If you go to him and ask to be his and to be forgiven, then try your hardest to not fall back into that sin, he will forgive you. He will do this even if you stumble a few times…However I do warn you not to give lip service to God…What I mean by this is that you can’t say I want to be forgiven and the next night go out and delibrately do the same thing again. He knows when the heart is pure in its intent.

I also want you to know that being homosexual is not the sin…The sin is when you act on it and don’t resist it! One of the purposes of this site was to correct Christians who belong to churches who not only accept this lifestyle openly and some even allow ministers to live this lifestyle. These are churches that are so concerned with not loosing membership,and tithing money, so they bow to public opinion rather than preach Gods word on this matter. Some will even say that God’s teachings on this are no longer valid and he will accept it. The bible warns us about this and says that in the end there will be those who except false doctrine and who put on the appearance of Godliness but are not of God! This is a big example of churches and Christians accepting false doctrine. Make no misteak, God makes it clear that it is and always will be a sin. The bible says we are to correct one another because if one changes the word of God and misleads others into doing things of a sinful nature, we will pay a big price when it comes to our salvation. Ministers who do this will face Gods’ wrath! Changing the word of God falls under heresy and can cost you your salvation…Heresy is the only thing that can cost a saved Christian their salvation! If we who know his teachings stand by and say nothing then we are sinning as well and not obeying Christ command that we should abmonish one another. We will face judgement on that if we do not stand up for his word!

Now think about this, I have heard of homosexual ministers and Christians resisting the lifestyle…Some will be delivered from those desires but others may not be. Just think about the power of their testimonies! For those who must fight this their whole lives and commit to resist the lifestyle, just think of the reward that will be waiting for them?

Patrick, remember that God truelly loves you and no true Christian can caste that first stone. We all sin…We all need forgiveness again and again! Therefore none of us is fit to judge you…This is not our intent with our postings…We strive only to educate those who are being misled, so that they can not claim ignorance, they can be saved, and we can stay faithful to the word.

God Bless You Patrick and if you need prayer, or counsel, you have come to the right place!

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Cat September 7, 2012 at 6:35 am

Patrick…It has been a couple of hours since I wrote you. I am still awake and can not stop thinking of you…I want you to know that we can hear the pain in your heart within those few sentences you wrote. Call out to God with all that is in your heart and I promise he will answer if you listen! I know what it is to feel despair in your heart and it has been those times when I have called out to him with everything that I have, that he has answered me the clearest!

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John Feyissa September 10, 2012 at 8:49 pm

Brother! I have no words how to say thank you for this clear and to the point teaching. You heat the nail! I am so happy to read your article. It gave me more confidence! God still has His people who stands for His Word. I am so happy for your uncompromising faith! I commend you for that! If it is your will may i use it to teach in one of the seminar I am asked to teach!
Have a blessed day and remain blessed

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Jack Wellman September 10, 2012 at 8:56 pm

Wow John. I am overwhelmed that you would want to use this at your seminar. I think that would be fine my friend. Part of the reason that I wrote this was in the hopes that people would repent, confess their sins, and place their trust in Christ. I will pray that those who are battling with homosexuality can find a source of strength in God to help them overcome this. We love them and God loves them.

We don’t want to judge them but help them and show that it takes time, prayer, and constant confession and battling takes a lifetime. In fact, sanctification is a lifelong process. You will never meet a homosexual that God does not love…you will never see a homosexual that God does not want to save. We are in agreement with this. Thank you sir. Hope your seminar goes well.

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Sam Jones October 20, 2012 at 9:20 pm

Jack I have to ask, does the same go for bisexuals as it does for homosexuals. Is bisexuality a sin too?

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Jack Wellman October 20, 2012 at 9:43 pm

Sam, since bisexuality is the potential to feel sexually attracted to and to engage in sensual or sexual relationships with people of either sex, I would say yes. Now to feel attracted yet to resist to engage in sensual or sexual relationships with people of either sex is not sin if you resist this temptation and not engage in it, but it IS clearly sin when it results in the sexual encounter, and the New Testament clearly says from Corinthians to Revelation, they will not enter heaven those who engage in such things. Any sexual relationship outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is sin, no wiggle room. Not my opinion, but God’s Word says so. I know many homosexuals who still feel this urge but do not sin even though they are tempted and they are able to overcome this by the Holy Spirit and their temptation to engage in it is not sin…but the actual act of it or lusting of this in the heart would be sin for anyone who does such things.

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Millie October 21, 2012 at 4:48 pm

Hello,
I am wondering if we attend a church that adopted the policy of ordaining homosexual ministers are we ignoring God’s word in the bible and showing others we are condoning this lifestyle?
Are we actually sinning against God by doing this?
Just wondering.
Millie

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Jack Wellman October 21, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Millie, what a great observation. I would find a Bible-believing and God-honoring church for the church you mentioned is an apostate church but the greater sin is of the church ministry itself, nonetheless, I would not stay in a “church” that is watering down the truth of God by allowing homosexual ministers to be ordained because if they are not believing this part of the Bible, then what other parts of the gospel are they compromising? Truth is all truth and not part of it. It is absolutely clear what the Bible says in 1 Cor 6:9 “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.”

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Further, 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person–such a man is an idolater–has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

There is no wiggle room here at all in the Bible. Find a Bible-believing church.

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Chevelle October 22, 2012 at 1:51 pm

Hi Jack! Thank you so much for this article. I have never thought homosexuality as true to my nature, but I was always wondering how others could? Why do they trap themselves in a fruitless union or idea of such a unioin? I am not judging anyone or saying that I am better, I want to help so much but I can’t seem to fathom how one could submit to it. I love mankind so much and want them to face the truth about themselves so they can not just live but thrive! But there is so much resistance, and I find so many ministers twisting the truth that it would be hard for someone who wants the truth, to be able to uptake it.
I am a student in college and I was quite interested in philosophy at a point in my career. My teacher said to look at the text and see it for what it was and how it could help mankind. But all I saw was twisting of the true nature of mankind and I couldn’t bare to read anymore of it. In fact, I couldn’t even look at my professor who i had liked very much the same ever again. I think philosophy is great, but it just doesn’t illuminate the truth like the Bible does.
The reason I am even commenting because I know one day that I will have children. And that my children will grow up in the society that I live in. I don’t want them to get tossed and turned in the false logic and reasoning of society, just because they want the glory of being a social champion. I feel that so much of my education is pushing me do that and telling me to forget the truth. How do I handle that?

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Jack Wellman October 22, 2012 at 6:06 pm

Thank you Chevelle. I am thrilled that you seek to give your children the truth and absolute truth is found only in the Bible. Jesus said that I am the truth, the life, and the way and there is NO other!

When I took philosophy in college, it was so bizarre because they said things like “What is reality?” “Does this chair that I (the professor) sit in really exist?” I wanted to say, yes, or else you’d flop on the floor! Hello!

The ancient Greeks, who were among the first to practice philosophy, coined the term, which means “love of wisdom.” Those who study philosophy are called philosophers. Through the ages, philosophers have sought to answer such questions as, what is the meaning and purpose of life? How do we know what we know? Does God exist? What does it mean to possess consciousness? And, what is the value of morals? What they tried to find through logic or the natural world or thru philosophizing was never going to be found where they were looking because they never looked in the Bible. You can tell your children that truth is not negotiable. One person once told me that there are no absolute truths…I said, are you sure? Aren’t you just telling me that statement as an absolute truth itself? How about we jump out of an airplane & I use a parachute but since you don’t believe in absolutes, maybe you can just “believe” that gravity isn’t absolute and that you can make up your own truth. Stick to the Bible. The wisdom of man (God says in the Bible) is foolishness to God. Can you see why God says that! I hope this helps.

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Chevelle October 24, 2012 at 8:13 pm

Thank you for your response Jack! The last quote is an excellent quote! The philospher professor that I talked about the other day stopped to chat with me about why I had left philosophy. I was honest with him and told him that I had found the truth and he seemed perplexed that I would go against his teaching of the “no absolute truths”. I am sure him and his philosophy students will have a field day discussing people like me and the “truth” in their classes. And thank you for telling me about what to tell my children. I know this is weird to say, but although I don’t have a partner yet and haven’t even ” done the deed” that would render children, I feel as if I love them enough that I should give them the truth. I feel so guilty and stupid I guess for looking elsewhere when it was always infront of me. I have never considered myself anything but a God fearing and loving person, but I got so caught in the “wisdom search” that I forgot my true self. I remember being in class thinking, “these people have life so twisted how can they live like this?”. I also realized alot of them like to confuse and appeal to your emotions in order to control you as well. That is where i drew the line because I knew the truth sets you free, not dictates what you/other people thinks you should do and feel. Thank you so much for replying to me. I no longer struggle so much and pick up my Bible to read more often.

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Jack Wellman October 25, 2012 at 1:24 pm

What a good and godly mother you will make Chevelle. I really have feelings of sorrow for those who have not truth in knowing Jesus Christ. How much joy they are missing. Something you said was so precious. You said that you already love your children (who are as yet unborn) so much to tell them the truth. Wow. That is such a Holy Spirit filled statement that reminds me of what God has said about us before we were born, “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will–to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. Eph 1:3-5 This also is where God said that He chose us, loved us, and adopted us before we even existed!

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Jack Wellman November 4, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Thank you Chevelle for your gracious words. I feel that we are going to get a lot more persecution from this article but that is to be expected. If we are getting flack or persecution about taking a firm stand for what God says in His Word, the Bible, at least we know whose side we are on. We are to speak the truth and try to correct and rebuke error for that is what Peter imperatively commanded us to do. If we don’t stand for the truth we will fall for anything. The Bible is crystal clear and so I want to make it clear is my great desire and passion. If the truth is not offensive, then what was the cross for!?

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Megan November 4, 2012 at 5:03 pm

Hello,
I’m wondering if my opinion is scripturally sound. Being gay is a sin, but I do not believe it is our duty to stop them from getting married. Judicially, there is absolutely no reason to outlaw gay marriage – we will not let people marry turtles, though, because turtles cannot consent. Anyways, Ezekiel 33:8-9 states that it is our duty to warn people they are in sin, but after than we are no longer accountable for their death in sin. As far as I know, there is no place in the Bible saying we are to stop others from sinning in this way. If gay marriage was legalized, I believe Christians would have a better chance at reaching them because we aren’t suppressing them under unjust and ridiculous arguments – they’re not going to be more gay or less gay because of marriage. Instead of fighting them, we should give them the freedom to choose, even though it is sin. People choose sin every day but that doesn’t mean we outlaw it. Am I scripturally incorrect?

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Jack Wellman November 4, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Hello Megan. Thanks for your comment and questions. The Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman and not between a man or woman and a turtle. This is what the Bible says about same-sex marriage, not what I say, so if there is difficulty in accepting it, it is with God speaking to us in His Word, the Bible.

There actually are Scriptures in the Bible that tell us to warn our brothers & sisters from sinning, i.e. James 5:19-20

19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

We are not “fighting them” but warning them of the impending judgement of God and we do this in love, not hate. 1 Cor 6:9, Rev 21:8, & several others tell us the fate of such men and women. Yes, we all sin (1 Cor 1:8, 10) but we are forgiven when we repent (Rom 10″9-13) and confess our sins (1 John 1:9).

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Megan November 4, 2012 at 7:05 pm

I’m not having difficulty accepting that according to the Bible marriage is between a man and a woman – I completely support that and am in favor of heterosexual marriage as the definition of marriage. However, in the US Constitution there is no such definition. As much as I would like everyone to be a Christian and be in favor of church in state, following God, that is not the case. Yes, homosexual marriage is a sin, but it is not one that can be outlawed according to our Constitution. We are making a baseless argument (again, according to the Constitution) and I don’t believe we should fight it anymore. We have no argument. There’s sort of two discussions in here – same sex marriage according to the Bible and according to the Constitution. Totally agree with the Bible and I stand firm in my beliefs that homosexuality is wrong, but, as much as I would like to, we cannot make laws because of what the Bible says – we live in the US, where everyone has the right to pursue any religion. As a Christian, it’s my job to help them choose the true faith, not influence that decision with the government’s help.

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Jack Wellman November 4, 2012 at 7:14 pm

Thank you Megan. Let me say that I am voting for the presidential candidate that supports traditional marriage and who takes a stand on preserving traditional marriage and so that is who I am voting for. We have power to vote and we have every right to support those candidates who want to preserve godly morals and values in this nation. That is our constitutional right. That is all I am saying. If they pass laws that outlaw or allow same-sex marriage, that is fine, but I believe the higher, moral law is God above human law. Thanks Megan.

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Chevelle November 4, 2012 at 7:21 pm

Love the way you answer this question. Christians are getting so caught up in whether it “constitutional” and “religious freedom” and being politically corrrect that they forget they follow higher, moral law. Believe in that law and the truth and you won’t have to think twice about how you vote.

Jack Wellman November 4, 2012 at 7:16 pm

My first line should have been, “that I am voting for the presidential candidate that supports traditional marriage and who takes a stand on preserving traditional marriage and so that is who I am voting for.”

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Cat November 5, 2012 at 6:34 pm

Hi everyone…It is sad but I don’t think an election has ever left so many people questioning the direction their country is heading, their beliefs, or the candidates, as much as this one has. Tomarrow is election day and we need to pray hard that God’s will, whatever that is, that it is carried out at the polls and through our electoral college when it votes! Just about every person I have talked to has said the same thing, That they are trying to decide between the better of the two evils…candidates that nobody completely trust! I don’t think I have ever heard so much mud slinging ever! The people I have talked to come from differant ethnic backgrounds and have been believers and non- believers! The other day, a customer was talking elections with me and I thought with his race that he would be for a specific candidate, boy did he surprise me! We need to pray, listen, and then vote what God puts in our heart! Remember that in the end, what God desires will be what happens…For him to come again, we will have to go through hard times and if this is part of that, then all we can do is pray, “May your will be done and may you give us the strength of spirit, mind, and body to endure within the faith until you decide to call us home”!

I do believe that the currant administration has not lived up to the declared faith and has done much to cause damage and persecution to the faith. It is sad that the candidate who upholds traditional marriage is not of my faith but since I have no other choice, he will be getting my vote as well!

We as Christians’ do have the right to vote on the same sex marriage laws…Remember when society decided to accept this as an open life style? It was not until a few yrs ago, that some churches broke off and started excepting homosexual ministers. The gay community has had the option of a civil union which would get them the rights of equality in every way, except recognition within the church. However, they have decided that is not good enough, they want to be recognized and married in churches. Their are some churches who are considering this. We all need to realize that there is a connection here…If we allow a homosexual marriage law to pass in place of a civil union, the next step is that some churches will start marrying same sex couples. Gods’ church will fall even farther and be weakend by those branches allowing for worldliness! We will have churches run by same sex ministers who are married to same sex partners and are preaching that it is alright to embrace that life style. The traditional family values of the church and this country will fall even farther and America will loose even more favor from God!

I will vote my faith on this election day and I pray all of you will to! There really is no right, or wrong in this election, one can only do what they believe to be right. Nobody should judge or blame anyone based on a vote since the lines of truth have been so blurred by both candidates that most Americans are struggling over this decision! I can say that I am greatful that in my state there is a bill up for vote which would force our state government to support any federal legislation that limits campaign spending. We had a Baptist minister running in this election and others who may have provided more hope for our country but they were forced out of the election because they could not keep up fianancially with our two remaining candidates!

God’s Peace and blessings to everyone…Cat

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Chevelle November 6, 2012 at 1:09 pm

Well said Cat! This election has made me aware of the things that go on that I was not aware of before. It has taught me to watch and that is what I will do from now on. Again, so many Christians are worried about being politically correct that they forget the God they serve. They choose to idolize the politician (man) so much, that forget who set them free in the first place. I also forget that Christianity is a faith, not just a religion and that what we follow is the truth and that should lead us in all our decisions. However, at least their spirits are speaking to them that they would seek out an article such as this. I too was once struggling with whether it would be okay vote for someone who supports same sex marriage and claims to be Christian. I had reconcile with the truth and I had to change my view to line up with the truth although it was hard but IT IS THE TRUTH. I pray Cat, that everyone will make the right decision today. I do feel this may be a time for spiritual revelation among believers and even those who do not believe will come to the cross. It may strengthen some of us and weaken others, but that is why trials and tribulations are put into place so that we may continue to believe.

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Robin December 18, 2012 at 11:16 am

Thank you so much for your article. I found it comforting. Should Christians therefore not attend Gay marriage cermonies even if it is a family member ( my brother)?

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Jack Wellman December 18, 2012 at 11:48 am

Robin, thank you for your question. I do not see anything wrong with necessarily attending the marriage of your brother even if it is a gay marriage but we know that God will not recognize it since it is not the joining of a man and a woman. I take it your brother is not a Christian. We can pray for him because the Bible is clear that those who are living in a homosexual state and is unrepented of and is ongoing, without any remorse, will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, as the many Scriptures in this article make clear. If you, in your own conscience, do not feel comfortable though, tell your brother why you can’t do so because of your beliefs that are taught in the Bible. Personally, I would not attend but you are not approving of this by attending but by not attending you are following your own conscience. If you have no problem with it, I see none.

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Evangelist Sallima G. January 31, 2013 at 2:43 am

Thank you Jack for stretching your back and calling a spade a spade. Evil shall always be evil no matter what colour it is painted.
Thanks.
Griffin

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Danielle March 2, 2013 at 11:13 am

Hi everyone! I would like to share with you my own personal experiences with this issue. I grew up in a very sheltered and very Christian home. When I was 16, I discovered I was gay, and that discovery lead me down a very dark path. Knowing we’ll what the bible said about homosexuality, and how Christians felt about it, I thought to myself, why bother? Why bother trying to be good and trying to follow God if everyone knew I was going to hell. In my mind there were 2 choices. Go to hell or be celibate. So I left the church, and years went by, by where I did whatever I pleased. Then I met someone. She was gay and a Christian. On our first date, she was playing Christian music, and she said… I’m not really sure why, but I just have to tell you that Jesus misses you. I totally lost it crying. That night I prayed and said “ok God, if you want me in church, I’m working on Sunday and I need it off”. 10 pm Saturday night my boss called to tell me he didn’t need me Sunday. I went to church. Slowly, this woman started bringing me to church and bible studies, but it wasn’t until I attended a christening for her niece that something happened. We had to leave to set up the party, but my heart needed to stay. I left anyways, and the next week I just HAD to go to church. I had no idea how to get there, and I was running late. Both things would have normally stopped me, but I kept going. I went alone. While I sat there something deep within drove me to the alter, and I just could not stop crying. The following week I went back, and a different preacher came up to me, placed his hands on my head, and I fell to the ground beside myself, and I felt Jesus so clearly. And I knew I was a Christian.

Today, I am so hurt. I hurt for homosexuals that can’t find their way to God, because they feel so scorned that they can’t even give God a shot. I know as Christians it’s our duty to point out sin, but I strongly feel that it’s doing more harm than good. A homosexual person will not come to God if you tell them you have to stop or you’re going to hell. I know that pain, and that pain pushed me so far from God and into sin, it’s a wonder I came back.

I hurt for Christians too, because they get scorn and persecution for trying to maintain holiness. My gay friends look at me very funny and try to convince me out of my faith. They don’t understand how I could subject myself to that. I try to explain that it’s one thing to think you know how life works, but it’s another to know God, and to know without any doubt that Jesus is the truth.

So as a gay Christian I feel torn from both ends. Is being gay a sin? I trust and pray that God reveal the truth to my heart when it is so to have that truth revealed. But neither gay people nor Christians have provided me with satisfactory answers to my questions. And again, I leave it to the Lord.

What I do know is this, the comments about this issue tearing up the church are correct. This issue will, but it doesn’t have to. If churches lead sinners to Christ first, Christ will heal, mend and convict. If you use the bible to tell someone they are going to Hell, you will just make the whole issue worse.

Lastly, there are many sins I do daily that I feel I have no control over. However, I don’t sit there and say, well it’s ok because….. whatever reason. Being gay is no different. With my other sins I can clearly see why it is wrong outside of solely being in the bible. It makes sense to me, and I feel guilt about them. But homosexuality is different because I do not understand. To further complicate the issue, I find the biblical context to be unclear. So… I don’t know the answer, and I’m ok with that. If God wants me to know, know I have faith that my answer will be loud and clear.

Thank you all for listening, and God Bless.

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Jack Wellman March 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Thank you so much Danielle for your comment and for being so openly honest. Homosexuals who are not practicing this lifestyle and trying to overcome it should be welcomed by churches and not condemned for Christians can not caste the first stone unless it would be at their own selves. The same could be said of former drug abusers who are still tempted (like me), like former prisoners, alcoholics, and so on. The churches would be empty if we eliminated everyone who has sinned.

What Christians have to prove is totally useless. We must rely on the Word of God, the Bible and the Bible is clear on this point. We speak or write not here on personal opinion and ask that you don’t believe me but God Himself says in Scripture, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]” (Rom. 1:26-27).

The Bible tells us to “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up your voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isa. 58:1).

How can you say that “the biblical context to be unclear?” when 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 states, “Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” How clear that is! Yet for those who are trying to come out of this and repent and even though they fall, God’s grace will extend to them particularly if they are not practicing it.

Add to that, “1 Timothy 1:8-10 “Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.”

Yes, Jesus is the truth and there is no compromise and Jesus would not disagree with the Word of God for He is the Word (John 1). I pray this is “loud and clear” for we are not judging you…the Word is the final authority and judge of us all.

So, does God “understand” when we live in sin, including homosexuality? Absolutely not! Paul is clear on this point when he wrote, “do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you” (1 Cor 6:9-11). The difference here is what Paul said, “And such where some of you” meaning there is time to repent, confess, and put your trust in Christ for we can overcome but only by Christ Jesus.

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Danielle March 2, 2013 at 6:10 pm

Before I get started with my reply, I would like to say that I am not attempting to justify anything, but only to gain deeper understanding. I suspect that in my search for understanding the issue, I may have gotten confused. But I hope that I can get a little peace of mind one way or another.

I feel homosexuals, practicing or not should be allowed in church. As we grow in our faith, through the power of the Holy Spirit, we become more sensitive to God’s Will. And as I stated previously, I haven’t really felt the guilt of this sin. However, other things that I never even thought about before, I’ve started becoming sensitive to. I believe that I am and we as Christians, are all becoming Christ like. I believe when someone accepts Christ, and allows Him to take control, they embark on a mission to be better. And I believe it is a process, and not instaneous sinlessness. So, telling anyone that they can only attend church if they have forsaken (any) particular sin would leave everyone out. Christ died for all people, so that we might have the chance at salvation, and not one is worthy on their own merits, but only through Christ. Without Christ and a whole lot of Christ, one can not overcome sin. To expect anyone to do that is unfair.

What is unclear to me, is the historical and spiritual context. I have dived as far into the issue as looking up the literal translations of the words translated as homosexual, and have found the translations to be unclear. Also, until present day, homosexuality as we define it, has not existed. During the time of Paul, and the Roman empire, it was common practice for older men to have sex with young boys, and other very immoral situations, which were detestable. So it is no wonder Paul spoke about it. I would have too. In the Old Testament, a male spilling his seed anywhere, except to make children was a sin and punishable. The Old Testament solely speaks of men, and I assume the issue was not sex per say, but spilling the seed, which I would not apply to females. I mean, I can point out many more instances of why I believe it to be unclear. Every other sin I can clearly see why the sin hurts myself, or others. This one, I can not find a good reason.

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Jack Wellman March 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm

Thank you again Danielle for your comment.

In Romans 1 Paul knew that “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.” I beg you not to do the same thing.

Romans 1 is very clear saying, “26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another (clearly meaning other women!). Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” so 32 “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death,they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

I am writing this in love as Paul did in 1 Cor 6:18 “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.” So sexual sin DOES hurt yourself.

Yes, Christ died for the unworthy and sinners but no one who continues in sin and does not repent from what the Bible clearly calls sin is really saved. They deceive themselves as 1 John 3:6-10 says

“No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children,do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will CONTINUE to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we KNOW who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: ANYONE who does not do what is right is NOT God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” (my caps)

Yes, homosexuality DID exist as we know it today, even from long ago in Sodom. The Bible plainly states in the New Testament, in Jude 1:7…

“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (Greek: different, other) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” The term “going after strange flesh” is explained to us in Proverbs 7:5 and Romans 1:26-27…

“That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.”

Do you to believe that things were any different in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah? Do you actually expect us to believe that homosexuality wasn’t being practiced in Sodom? Jude 1:7 plainly tells us that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sexual sins. We read in Genesis 13:13, “But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.” God said that the men of Sodom were sinners EXCEEDINGLY!

Surely a person does not need a degree in theology, to know that the word EXCEEDINGLY meant that these men of Sodom were rotten to the core. These weren’t petty criminals. Genesis 19:4-9 tells us about two angels who were sent by God to deliver Lot, and his family, out of Sodom. The angels came in the appearance of regular men. The homosexuals in the city of Sodom wanted to rape the two visitors. In fact, Verse 4 tells us that ALL the men of Sodom were outside their door. It is obvious to anyone who believes the Word of God, that Sodom was predominantly homosexual, and these homosexuals were violent (as is often the case today).

We read in both 2nd peter 2:6 and Jude 1:7 that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah as an EXAMPLE of what is going to happen to all the wicked. Since we don’t see fire and brimstone coming out of the sky today, it is obvious that the Scriptures are referring to the Lake of Fire. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8 supports this, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” We read about the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:11-15. This will be the eternal damnation of all those who die in their sins, never having been born-again in Christ Jesus (John 3:3).

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

Genesis 18:16-19:29

Though the context of the account in question begins in Genesis 18:16 during God’s conversation with Abraham by the Oaks of Mamre, the details of the encounter at Sodom itself are found in Genesis 19:4-13:

Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.”

But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway.

Then the men said to Lot, “Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”

Solomon in Ecclesiates and in Proverbs says “There is nothing new under the sun.” You can justify by your own reason but the Bible is clear. Can you feel 100% sure God will let you into heaven after you die? Christ died for all…yes, but only the “all” who put their trust in Him and repent, confess, and believe in (obey) Him. If Jesus died for ALL, does this mean unrepentant murders, Hitler, Stalin? Where do you draw the line on “All?”

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Danielle March 4, 2013 at 9:42 am

Thanks for your well thought out response.

The two Greek words used in the bible to describe homosexuality are Malokois and Arsenokoitai. The first as translated by the Latin Vulgate bible in the 5th century means luxurious and effeminate. The second word although unclear as to a specific meaning is a compound word that translates to man (masculine form) bed (female form) most likely describing a man sleeping with another person in the marital bed. It has also been translated abusers of mankind. The Hebrew translations are even clearer. Furthermore, there is an entirely different word for homosexual activity in Greek. Because of this we can be sure Paul was not referring to homosexual activity. This makes a difference in the interpretation of the text. Take for instance Lev. 18:22. When translated accurately it reads:
You will not lie down with a male on a woman’s bed.
Lev. 20:13 would read like this:
A man who lies down with a male, on a woman’s bed, they have committed an abomination. Both of them should be put to death. Their blood is on themselves.
The action being prohibited is not the male-male sex, but the male- male sex on the woman’s bed.

I can get a lot more into this, but I wanted to make the point that the translations are important, and that I am confused about it. The earliest translations of the bible seem to point to different sin, and not homosexuality in and of itself. If you look at the historical context of homosexual activity at that time, there were males having sex with young boys, homosexual practice(and hetero for that matter) worship to idols in pageon temples , pimps and masturbation. These bible verses that you have pointed out can be referring to any of those sins. But it doesn’t point out homosexuality in an of itself. It would be like saying you can’t be heterosexual because heterosexuals commit rape, adultery, and incest. It does not make sense.

So really, this is why I am confused. I would assume the earliest translations were the most accurate, because they had true understanding of the original language. If there was a clear word meaning homosexual activity why didn’t they use it if that is what was meant? What does the Bible really say? What did the writers mean?

I know this probably comes off as a huge justification. But I assure you, this is what plagues my mind. I do not wish to perverse the truth, but to find it. If you could tell me why the translation to homosexual is the best translation, so that I could be at peace over this matter in my soul, I would be so very grateful. I am afraid I am being biased, so different eyes would be much appreciated.

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Danielle March 4, 2013 at 10:01 am

Forgot a part! If Hitler was seeking God and wished to be in church out of love for God, then yes, even Hitler should be allowed the chance for Christ to work in his life. If your asking if Christ will save him, my answer would be that nothing is to great for God to achieve, and if Hitler’s desire was sincere, and it was God’s Will, it would be done. It is up to God, who it is that he saves and the manner he does it in. If you thought I meant everyone goes to heaven no matter what, I don’t believe that. I believe that everyone sins and we are by nature fallen beings. I believe that God, through his grace, did not wish everyone to die, so he gave us his Son as the perfect sacrifice. I believe that the people who believe Christ died for their sins, were given to Christ by the father, and that His sacrifice was acceptable. I believe that we become new creatures in Christ, because we are grateful for the forgiveness of God, and because our savior commanded us to follow in his footsteps. I do not believe that any one should not have the chance to hear good news as often as they like. Christ commanded us as disciples to preach the good news to all, and all who heard it and knew his voice would be saved. Not one should be left out from church IF they are seeking the Lord.

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miki buckley March 4, 2013 at 10:50 pm

Hey..
im wondering how can “god” help something like homosexuality it has no cure because its not a sickness. your born with it, its in your DNA im a proud bisexual and there is proof of homosexualty in the bible read this article for more infomation about it http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4143802.html

there is a few casese like ruth and naomi, David and Jonathan and Daniel and Ashpenaz..

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Jack Wellman March 5, 2013 at 10:25 am

Thank you Miki for your question. I checked out the link and there is zero Scriptural support for David and Jonathan or Ruth and Naomi having sexual relationships or that they were same-sex attracted at all. Even if it were true that homosexuality is in our DNA, so is sin. I had alcoholic parents and it is in my DNA to be one so does that give me permission to be one and to drive drunk, work under the influence, and die at an early age due to alcoholism? No, we are ALL born into sin but it doesn’t make us not responsible. How can “God” help something like homosexuality? The same way that He can help those who are born into drug use, into alcoholic homes, and born into sin as we all are. Regardless, we must all repent from our sins, confess them to God, and put our trust in Christ….NOT in science or DNA or that we are helpless victims of our DNA.

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Chevelle Montoya March 5, 2013 at 11:04 am

Hey Jack,

Clearly Ruth and Naomi and David and Jonathan were close friends. Its funny how friendships involving the same sex are twisted by others to make it seem like they are homosexual relationships. Those relationships in the Bible show friendship. I guess like everything else in the world, that concept is being diminished so much that this is the way we tend to think. Saddens very much…it’s like you can’t get close to anyone without it being about sex. Sad…

Chevelle

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Jack Wellman March 5, 2013 at 11:18 am

Well said Chevelle. I can only see this previous comment (not yours but Miki’s) as trying to justify homosexual sin as okay because of others doing such in the Bible. I have a friend who is closer than a brother and my love for him is unlike any other. First of course, I love God above all (though not perfectly of course), then my wife, my children and grandchildren, but my love of my brother in Christ is so very close but how can that mean it is sexual? No way. Clearly Bible texts are often taken out of context to make it a pretext and a false one at that. Thank you. Yes, it is sad and what the Bible says is true….we call what is evil good and good evil. That has been fulfilled today!

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miki buckley March 11, 2013 at 1:06 am

jack.. yu are right if people didnt want to be gay or lesbian its there choice.. i still believe that god will still love everyone no matter wat the sexualty is… how can god just say ‘no i dont love yu because your homosexual’ werent we all made from gods image?? like come on year it might say its a sin but in sociaty there is heaps more people finaly admiting that there gay,lesbian or bisexual that we should adapt… im not christanas yo can probly tell but i do believe in god and i dont think he will punish people for just likeing the same sex… he will love us all no matter what our sexualty and i strongly believe in that…

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Jack Wellman March 11, 2013 at 11:20 am

Thank you so much Miki. I appreciate the grace in your words. I must tell you though in love that God will not overlook our sins just because we believe in Him. I am not talking about homosexuality only but all of our sins. I see you don’t believe that God will punish people for liking same sex but God punishes all sin, no matter what they are. You say you “believe” this or that but what we believe has no bearing on the truth. It doesn’t nullify what God teaches in the Bible. I beg you my friend to consider putting your trust in Christ. I too am a sinner, even now, but I have put my faith in Christ and His atoning death saved me (2 Cor 5:21). Please know that even the Devil believes in God but he is not saved.

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phishing4men March 5, 2013 at 1:16 pm

Alan Austin is an Australian freelance journalist living in Nîmes, France. What qualifies this guy to discern truth, he has missed the mark so badly, its like he never nocked his arrow.
im wondering how can “god” help something like homosexuality it has no cure because its not a sickness.
Here you are accurate, homosexuality better identified as sodomy is not a sickness, it is sin and the way God deals with this or any other sin is thru repentance and trusting Jesus Christ alone of forgiveness of and freedom from sin, the same cure that I and any other truly born again believer took.
your born with it, its in your DNA im a proud bisexual and there is proof of homosexualty in the bible
You and I are born in sin regardless how it manifests itself, sodomy, lying, murder, adultery, lust….and again the only way to freedom is thru repentance and trusting in the finished work of our sinless Savior Jesus Chris. I am saddened you are “proud’ of anything as that too is a sin most of us fight with, bisexual is your choice albeit a bad choice a sinful choice, and as far as “proof” of sodomy in the Bible, it also is true and you can see that God calls it an abomination Rom 1 and he punishes sodomy by raining fire down on Sodom and in Romans gives those who are unrepentant of such sin over to their own lust. The end is not good for unrepentant sinners, whatever form our sin manifests itself. I will pray for you friend, God has a way to freedom for you and all of us, it is one way, “the” way, Jesus Christ alone. May you seek and find Jesus as Lord and Savior. God speed friend.
http://www.crossroad.to/Victory/easter/no-pride.htm

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Lauren March 21, 2013 at 10:42 pm

Any God that could punish someone for the ‘sin’ of loving another human being that happens to have the wrong bits cannot be the all loving, divine power that you speak of. I have lots of gay friends and they are really, really great people. It upsets me that they are restricted in how they are able to live their lives because of antiquated laws getting in the way. I’m so happy that I live in the UK where we are about to legalize same-sex marriage. Religion and politics should stay seperate in a modern, forward thinking society. We now have gay vicars and priests, so surely God must be accepting them on some level?

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Jack Wellman March 21, 2013 at 10:48 pm

Just because there are gay vicars and priests doesn’t make it right. God’s Word is the true standard for what is right. By the way, there are none that are “really, really great people” because the Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and we all have to repent of our sins…this includes pornography addicts, drugs addicts, thieves, murderers, pedophelias, you name it. I am glad you have a lot of gay friends. Many people have been saved that were gay. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. Everyone can repent and confess their sins and put their trust in Christ and they will be saved.

God is all loving because He sent His only Son to die for us all. But God is also holy and can not even look at sin and that’s why Jesus came to die for us and become sin for us (2 Cor 5:21).

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Moli April 5, 2013 at 10:12 pm

Jack
Thank you for sharing your insight on this very controversial
topic. I agree with the Bible in all things though I often fall short in my endeavor to follow Christ, by grace I’ve received his mercy and forgiveness.
There has been quite a lot of back and forth on this topic in the media and social media recently. It’s very confusing with many in the gay community saying their sexuality is a personal matter but yet wanting it publicly recognized with the legalization of same sex marriage.I have been curious as to how the Christian gay community is dealing with the issue, if they accept the Bible as God’s word.
Also I did not see a response to Dani’s comment from December 20,2013?
Thanks,
Moli

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Jack Wellman April 6, 2013 at 12:07 pm

Thank you Moli for your comment. I did seen Dani’s comment but left it up to Derek to respond to him. He said that “it seems you are against it”(same-sex marriage) but I am only recording what the Bible says about it. It is not my personal opinion that is really reflected on this but what God says in His Word. It is confusing, yes, and the legalization by human courts does not nullify what God teaches from the Bible. I know I will as I have already take a lot of heat for this stand but it is God Who they are really having an issue with for human opinions can not be compared with the unchanging truth of God. Many do not accept God’s Word in this but I understand why but I still must stand on the truth and not my own human opinion which can be wrong and can not compare with God’s Word. I appreciate your comment my friend. Thank you.

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Jeramy May 23, 2013 at 10:03 am

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Shawntay July 1, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Hi Jack,
I have to say that reading this has been a great help for me. I am just recently getting out of a homosexual relationship and I still struggle daily but I know that God can work it out!!! I’ve lost so much over the past 11 years of living in this sin. But I’m thankful that God did not turn me over to a reprobate mind. He is a forgiving God and I thank him each and every day. I just ask that you pray for me because just like smoking, another bad habit that I have, it’s hard to completely stop especially when feelings get involved. I’ve moved away from the woman I was with and we try to continue to be friends and I know we should keep our distance, at least until God fully delivers us from these feelings. We want to remain friends but it’s still that temptation there. Will it ever go away???? Please pray for us.

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Jack Wellman July 2, 2013 at 3:42 pm

Thank you Shawntay for your comment. My good friend, please know that there is hope for all of us and that God forgives us of all our transgression (1 John 1:9) and that Jesus becomes sin for us once we repent and put our trust in Him and then God sees us as having the righteousness of Christ (2 Cor 5:21). I will be honored to pray for a fellow saint and know that God never gives up on us, even when we give up on ourselves and that God’s mercy and love never runs out.

Temptations will never go away until we Christ returns and we have a glorified body but don’t lose heart my friend. It may never go away but the good news is that the Holy Spirit is obviously in you and working thru you and that you see the sin. The lost have no such conviction and that you feel badly over your sin is a great sign of conversion.

Read Romans 7 to see how Paul still struggled mightily with sin, even after conversion yet we read in Romans 8 that we will ALL be delivered. May God stregthen you in your times of testing and tempation. Fasting and prayer usually a powerful combination my friend to help. Try these.

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Jerry July 3, 2013 at 6:20 pm

Great teaching I agree 100% .

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Jack Wellman July 3, 2013 at 6:22 pm

Thank you sir…we both agree that God has never changed and that He is always right. I appreciate your words Jerry.

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