Should Women Be Pastors or Elders of a Church? A Bible Study

by Jack Wellman · Print Print · Email Email

What does the Bible say about women being ordained as pastors?  What about having women as elders of a church?  What does the Bible tell us?

Biblical Qualifications for a Pastor

This is one of the most controversial subjects in the church today.  Should women be pastors or is this relegated only to men?  What does the Bible tell us?  This article is not going to be based upon human opinion or my own personal opinion. Let the Bible speak for itself, for the Bible is God speaking directly to us (2 Tim 3:16).  The qualifications for a pastor are listed in several places but one place in particular goes into more depth than others. It is Paul’s instructions to 1st Timothy in 3:1-7:

This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;  not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence  (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);  not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Notice in verse one it says, if a man, meaning that Paul was clearly indicating this office was for a man.  The position of bishop is the same word as “overseer” which is also the definition of a pastor.  Paul continues by saying he desires a good work meaning “he” is a male.  Especially sincehe must be blameless, [and] the husband of one wife.” Every single reference refers to a male: his children…his own house…how he will take care of the church…he must have a good testimony…lest he fall into reproach.  There is no other way to translate the original Greek than that of a male.  The qualifications therefore include that the pastor must be a “he.”

Deacon Qualifications

Many churches have deacons and elders but many have deaconesses as well.  The qualifications for a deacon are also found in 1st Timothy 3 but specifically in verses 8-13:

Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given too much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.  But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.  Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Again we see Paul addressing the qualifications of deacons as primarily men but it should also be noted that there were deaconesses mentioned in Romans 16:1-2.  The office of a deacon is clearly defined as men who have no duplicity (not double-tongued) and as having only one wife (1 Tim 3:12) but deaconesses can not be ruled out biblically speaking.  There are differing beliefs in different denominations as to whether or not there are deaconesses but there are almost always deacons.

Can Women Be Pastors?

This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.

We have seen Paul’s clear instruction to Timothy to select overseers (bishops or pastors) among men who qualify. Since a pastor must also be apt to teach, Paul addresses the role of women in the church and says,But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet.  For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.  And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression (1 Tim 2:12-14).  A pastor has authority over the church and so no woman, according to Scripture, is to be over a man in authority in the church or at home (Eph 5:24).  This does not mean that the church board can not discipline a pastor and the church board may well be composed of some women members.

Even in the Old Testament there was not one single woman that was ever a priest in the 700 times this office was mentioned.  In the New Testament, both elders and pastors are mentioned in the masculine, saying he must be blameless (1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:6-7), he must be the husband of one wife (1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:6), he must be apt to teach (1 Tim 3:2, 1 Tim 2:24), he must rule his own household well (1 Tim 3:4), he must have his children in subjection (1 Tim 3:4, Titus 1:6), he must not be a novice (new Christian) lest he be filled with pride (1 Tim 3:6), he must have a good reputation (1 Tim 3:7), and hold fast to the faith that he was taught (Titus 1:9)

Can Women Be Elders?

The very description of an elder is that of an older man.  I could not find one single Scripture where it mentioned the qualifications of an elder to be anything but a male; one not new to the faith (1 Tim 3:6).  Some denominations have teaching elders. Any one designated as a pastor is already an elder but these can be separate offices.  Paul writes to Titus that An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient (Titus 1:6). Since the elder is to be the husband of one wife, we can naturally conclude that he is a male.

Paul also instructed Titus in appointing elders in the Crete church writing, For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.  For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward (Titus 1:5-7).   The fact that pastors are also elders is found in these verses as he uses the words “elders” and “overseer” interchangeably and includes the fact that elders must be a man above reproach and the husband of one wife.  What is obviously missing is any reference to a woman being an overseer or an elder.

Conclusion

According to Scripture, men are designated to be the pastors and elders. This does not mean that women are inferior to men because Jesus was and is God and He is co-equal to the Father in His omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence.  Even so, Jesus voluntarily put Himself under the authority of the Father while on earth.  Was Jesus inferior to the Father just because He was in subjection to and followed the will of the Father?  No!  Jesus is God just as much as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are.  Women are co-heirs, co-equals, and co-inheritors and God considers women, not to be inferior to men, but the equals of men.  It is only in authority that they have differences in roles but not in an inferior sense at all.  Women are to be in subjection to their husbands (Eph 5:24) and not to teach or have authority in the church (1 Cor 14:34-35) but they are not any less important or valued to God than men are.  In heaven, they will still be equal to men but they will no longer be in subjection to them…but only to Christ Who is the head of the Church.  He has designed the Church to be set up in this way.  This is not based upon personal opinion but from the Word of God, which is our final authority.

Interested in learning more Bible answers to questions?

Take a look at these articles and resources:

Source:

New International Version Bible (NIV)
THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide

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Robert Miller October 31, 2012 at 6:12 am

So what does this mean for people who attend a church with a female pastor? Are these entire congregations going to hell, despite having trusted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, because of a female pastor?

At mu church, the head pastor is male; however, we also have smaller groups that meet at various times, such as the young adults group for people aged 18-30. This young adults group has a female pastor. Does this mean I need to leave my.church, which I strongly feel God.has led me to, because a sub-group is pastored by a female? Does.this mean I can no longer attend the young adults group to.fellowship with people around my own age?

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 12:21 pm

Hello Mr. Miller. Thank you sir for your comment and questions. I think to say that I am saying that those in a congregation with a female pastor are headed to hell is to inject into this article that I have concluded such a thing and I have not done so anywhere in this entire article. Whether you leave the church over this issue is your decision of course.

It is clear that Jesus called the disciples and later designated them apostles were all men. Even the 72 He sent out were all men. Why were there no female apostles or women among the 72 sent out when Jesus could have done so? The apostle Paul, in communicating to Timothy the policies, practices, and principles which are to govern “how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God” (1 Tim. 3:15) states:

But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression (1 Tim. 2:12-14).

Paul similarly enjoins this church practice on the Corinthian congregation. He commands:

Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves just as the Law [i.e., the five books of Moses] also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church (1 Cor. 14:34, 35). First, the specific qualifications outlined for those aspiring to the pastorate or eldership strongly imply that such candidates are to be men (1 Tim. 3:1-7; Tit. 1:5-9). The overseer or elder is required to be the “husband of one wife” (1 Tim. 3:2; Tit. 1:6). Furthermore, he must be a person who “manages (proistemi) his own household well (kalos),” which is prerequisite for taking care of the church (1 Tim. 3:4,5). The management of the household, according to the Scriptures, is primarily the man’s, rather than the woman’s, responsibility. The man is considered the ‘head’ in the home under Christ (1 Cor. 11:3). Management of the household by men is further substantiated when the similar qualification for deacons is examined. It reads, “Let husbands of only one wife, and good managers [lit, managing well – kalos proistemi] of their children and their own households” (1 Tim. 3:12). This statement leaves no doubt as to who is to manage the household. Consistency, therefore, demands that the similar qualification for those aspiring to be pastors must also refer to men and not women.

How else can we interpret “Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves just as the Law [i.e., the five books of Moses] also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church (1 Cor. 14:34, 35).

The third, and final, reason why women are not to be elders or pastors in the church concerns the matter of ordination to the pastoral office. The New Testament Greek verb which means ‘to ordain’ in reference to an official post or formal office is cathistemi. It can also be translated ‘to appoint’ or ‘to put in charge’. The ideas of managerial responsibility and oversight seem to be implied in its usage. The verb occurs 21 times in the New Testament, with 5 of its occurrences referring to a specifically religious/ecclesiastical role or function. Three occurrences refer to the formal office of the high priest under the rubric of the Levitical administration (Heb. 5:1; 7:28; 8:3). The other two occurrences refer to the particular offices within New Testament ecclesiology (Acts 6:3; Tit. 1:5).

With respect to the Levitical administration, the high priest of Israel was always a man. Old Testament Scriptures, tradition, and history indisputably establish this factordained the office which pertains to religious ministry (see Ex. 28, 29; Lev. 8, 9, 21f; Num. 8, 18). Accordingly, though diversity does exist between the Old and New dispensations, organic unity is clearly evident. The first occurrence of cathistemi in reference to New Testament ecclesiology pertains to the diaconate. In Acts 6, the formal office of the diaconate is created under apostolic authority and oversight. The apostles themselves give instruction on the procedure for securing personnel to serve as deacons. The instruction is “But select from among you, brethren, seven men [aner – – male] of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom who we may put in charge [cathistemi] of this task [i.e., the daily serving of food].”

If it can be shown from the Bible where women should be or can be ordained as pastors, elders, or deacons, I would love to read it and recant.

Robert Miller October 31, 2012 at 2:51 pm

Jack,

I never intended to imply that you were concluding people under a female pastor were headed for hell. I was simply asking what the consequences would be, and I went with what is obviously the most severe consequence. If I meant to imply that this was what you were saying, I would have prefaced my question with something like, “So are you saying…” I’m sorry if you took my question as me implying that this is what you were saying. That was not my intent.

Also, while I appreciate you expounding upon the evidence, I never questioned the integrity of your article. I think you covered the Biblical truth quite fully in your article. What I was looking for was simple guidance: what are the consequences, and what should I do now? As I said, the head pastor at my church is male. In fact, the worship leader is male, and the youth pastor is male. The young adults pastor, however, is female. The young adults group meets on Sunday nights while the main congregation has service. I was simply looking for guidance as to whether it was okay for me to stay at this church (since the church itself is headed by a man) and whether or not it was okay for me to remain a part of this young adults group. I have felt more spiritual growth in the few months I have been at this church than I ever did in the four years that I attended a United Methodist church, and so I personally do not feel like leaving this church would be a wise decision; however, I realize that my feelings are flawed, for I am simply human, and therefore I am seeking guidance from someone outside of my emotional sphere.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 3:02 pm

Thank you again Mr. Miller. I personally would not stay and “feeling” is an unreliable way to make biblically based decisions on which church you should worship but I do appreciate your words of grace for you are obviously sincere.

I tell the church that I am under-shepherd of that “Today, part of my sermon will be perfect!….the part where I read out of the Bible.” My part? Not so much. I know it must be painful to make this break for I had to make one once where they were teaching doctrinal errors and our family were long-time attendees there. The longer I stayed, the more I felt convicted that I had to get out. I tiny drop of poison renders a bottle of spring water useless.

The only thing I can tell you is to pray for discernment and ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you and read the Scriptures that I went through. To me it was black and white but I can not speak for you sir. I have no right. Our Teacher is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God is our Authority in all things.

Please, please believe me sir, that is what I solely depended upon. My own opinion is useless…fallible and prone to error. But the Scriptures can not be broken sir. On that, God help me, I stand for on no other authority can I fully trust. Not denominational preferences or tradition, not on opinions of church boards, but solely on the inerrant Word of God. I know this doesn’t probably give you clarity for an answer but I must cling to the Word of God above my own human opinion.

Cherie December 12, 2012 at 1:03 pm

Perhaps speaking to the male Pastors of the church and showing them the bible verses cited here may bring about a good change. Maybe they have made an error and not realized it by appointing a female pastor to your group and could assign a male pastor instead.

You might ask if there is another group you could attend with a male pastor.

If those options don’t work, then you can make a decision at that point whether to stay or not.

I was raised Baptist and do not believe women should play a role as pastor or in teaching men/women in the church. However, we did have female Sunday school teachers, but they were teaching children–not men. In adulthood I wonder if this was alright because it clearly states women should remain silent at church. What are your thoughts on this? Also, what about women’s bible study groups–should women be allowed to teach to other women? Or are they just not allowed to teach to other men?

I am a female. I believe all people are created equally, but the bible specifically forbids women pastors and teaching in the church and this is fine with me. I think “women’s rights” have increased the number of women pastors in our generation. I will not attend a church with a female pastor.

There is one other question I have…about pastors, but on a different topic. What of the pastors who perform gay marriages?

It seems so wrong and a complete slap in the face of everything the bible teaches. I could never attend a church that thinks it is alright for their pastor to do this.

I am 44-years-old and finding it very difficult to find a good Christian church near my home. I seldom attend church because of this problem. Instead I learn about the bible on my own for these reasons.

The morals and respect of church have gone out the window. One church I tried had members eating and drinking coffee during the sermon. Even worse, it had everything set up in the main church at the back. DURING the sermon people were getting up to go get donuts and coffee–chatting at the back. I couldn’t believe it.

Then afterwards there were teens skating INSIDE the large church entry. What really saddened me was the complete lack of respect and how nobody else seemed to notice. The pastor gave a wonderful sermon. I would have loved to have had him as a Pastor, but the church was out of control.

I felt compelled to write the Pastor about this and I did. It was a very nice, polite letter thanking him for a wonderful sermon and explaining the reasons I chose not to return–none of which were because of his sermon and teachings. I never heard back from him. So sad…so much potential.

Sorry to ramble. I have really struggled with finding a church–one that has good Christians, morals and respect for a church and its members. Maybe I am just too old-fashioned? Is it me?

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 8:20 am

PAUL does speak about men and womens roles. but if GOD calls a woman into ministry I’m pretty sure that trumps what Paul said. hmm JESUS never said anythign about woman not teaching. Paul is awesome don’t get me wrong, but sometimes we go off of what he says more then Jesus. I’ve been to church services where Jesus wasn’t even mentioned, only pauls writtings. And all this is Paul. Why dont we let God decide who to call into ministry? thanks.

MD October 31, 2012 at 12:24 pm

I hear you, but that is now picking a choosing what you want to believe. Either the word of God is the is sovereign or not. Remember, before Jesus walked the earth God’s spirit guided all the prophets who wrote down the “Word of God”. In the same way when Jesus ascended into heaven, God’s spirit guided the apostles, Paul included, to write down his words, other instructions and prophesy. The were the mouthpiece of God. Anyone that preaches today preaches what the wrote down. If someone preaches anything else, that’s a whole other issue. Now, in no way did God say that a women will can not spread the Gospel and help people find Christ. So, a women acting in the position as an elder or pastor well not cause another to go to hell for sharing the the truth. However, that does not mean that the she is in proper order to the Word of God and God’s will. Remember, anyone can claim that God called them to do something, lying or not. That’s why we have the guide called the Bible to tell who is in order and who is not. So if this is God’s word do you really want to say to him that because of how I felt about what you said I will not follow? If its not the Word of God, then everything you believe is suspect.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 2:26 pm

Very graciously put MD, I am not as delicate as you and Jack but appreciate those that are. God speed friend.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 12:41 pm

Thank you Mrs. Zimmerman for your comment. I believe we are letting God decide who is called into the ministry because God reveals His will in the Word of God, the Bible. How can woman’s ministry be trumped by what Paul said when Paul said “I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ” (Gal 1:12)? Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

13For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from birtha and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peterb and stayed with him fifteen days” (Gal 1:10-18) so Paul was taught by Jesus Himself for 3 years.

So if we can “trump” Paul’s teachings, which do you choose to not believe? Was Paul also wrong about “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works” (Eph 2:8-9). Is Paul also perhaps wrong about Romans 8:1-2 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life(D) has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death”?

Paul teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ Himself, (Gal 1:1) “an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father.”

Apparently, many are “quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” (Gal 1:6-9). Has Paul pronounced a curse on Himself since he is preaching another gospel other than the one He received from Jesus Christ Himself (Gal 1:1)? No way.

At the church I am pastor of we preach Christ and Him crucified. He is the central focus of all our sermons, as is the entire Bible. Our expository preaching focuses on Christ and Him alone but Paul preached what Jesus taught? So we can not leave Paul’s teachings out because it is always ABOUT Christ! 2 Tim 3:16 says that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” ALL means ALL including Paul’s, Peter’s, Johns, the gospel authors, and Jesus. The gospel were not written by Jesus but by men as the Bible “never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (1 Pet 1:21).

It is clear that Jesus called the disciples and later designated them apostles were all men. Even the 72 He sent out were all men. Why were there no female apostles or women among the 72 sent out when Jesus could have done so? Again, if it can be shown from the Bible where women should be or can be ordained as pastors, elders, or deacons, I would love to read it and recant.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 12:52 pm

thank you for your reply. Sorry i was typing this at the same time…
This article is bias. I think you need to include that many Christian denominations allow woman to be pastors and lead. Both my parents are Methodist pastors. I go to a Vineyard church now, and women also pastor. I’m sure you’re not saying these churches are wrong? Each denomination interoperates the bible a little differently. You need to make it clear that you’re stating the views of your denomination, NOT all Christians. And Jesus is about spreading love. Since we are his hands and feet, can you imagine him saying, “That woman can’t lead others to me”? That may be an assumption but you’re implying that since Jesus didn’t originally send woman out, he didn’t want them in leadership.
If you are stating woman shouldn’t have leadership roles then why do so many Christian churches believe they should? I am surprised this is coming from this site. You need to give BOTH CHRISTIAN VIEWS not just your own. I’m sure I can have a pastor to write a rebuttal in response to this. I can ask a man also, so that you’ll post it.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 1:19 pm

Also, I do not mean to be rude in my comments. I am just upset because only one side is being represented as acceptable. It’s a major topic that many denominations interoperate differently then you.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 1:31 pm

Well said Mrs. Zimmerman. You are right about different denominations and so I didn’t take your comments as being rude and I do see why you said what you did and I thank you with your patience with me Mrs. Zimmerman. I truly see 1 Cor 13 & Rom 12 in your words being lived out.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 1:45 pm

Debbie, you really need to have a self examination, Jesus trumping Paul??? this would be laughable if not so sad. You say
“Why dont we let God decide who to call into ministry? ” God has already decided read the Scriptures it tells you what God decided before the foundation of the world, he did not wait for culture changes to make His decision. God help this confused world, the signs of your soon coming abound.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 2:27 pm

Phishing4men
I’m glad you find my “trump” comment laughable- but maybe take the plank out of your own eye before telling me to re-evaluate. You don’t know anything about me or my walk with Christ. I’m not judging you, and I’d like it if you didn’t judge me either. I love Jesus and that’s all that matters.
I recently read a book- it’s called “speaking of Jesus”, and it talks about people putting Paul above Jesus. I’ve been to churches where it was all about Paul and his writings (which are spirit filled and great don’t get me wrong) but no mention of Jesus. I said that because this article was based on a lot of what Paul said. We can say Paul Paul Paul all day- but it’s Jesus who has all authority and the final say. Jesus never said woman can or can’t be leaders and that never came up in the article. So that’s where I’m coming from. This article was bias to whatever his denomination is- there’s no denying that.
I am just speaking up for the many Christian denominations who believe it’s acceptable for women to lead and preach. There will never be a winner of this issue. I just think that a “Christian site” should share both views- because there is no “right” answer here, and they’re projecting Mr Wellman’s view as the correct one.

PAMELA NEWTON October 31, 2012 at 12:49 pm

When I see an error being taught or a scripture being mistranslated or some sort of ministry being established that God never said to set up, because the work is supposed to be a fruit of the Spirit that everyone does anyway, I’m supposed to keep my mouth shut and watch in silence, because I’m a woman, and everyone be deceived, because the pastor is above reproach?

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 1:39 pm

No, the pastor is not above reproach, but the Word of God, the Bible is. Again, please, I beg you, if it can be shown from the Bible where women should be or can be ordained as pastors, elders, or deacons, I would love to read it and recant because I am not above reproach. Which “scripture being mistranslated?”

PAMELA NEWTON October 31, 2012 at 10:14 pm

Thank you for your reply. Let me clarify please… I think you misunderstood my letter. I’m actually seeking your advice.

The mistranslation I spoke about was something I heard in a sermon at a church I attended and I didn’t mean you. Ok?

What I was trying to say was this. The pastor at my church mistranslated a scripture. I wanted to say something so badly about it, watching everyone be taught it that way, probably what he was taught in seminary school and not by an apostle.

So, being that I’m a woman, unmarried, I had to let the lie remain and not say anything to him? What should I do about this? What would be your advice?

PAMELA NEWTON October 31, 2012 at 10:31 pm

What of Matt 21:16 in its context?
Am I to stay silent?

PAMELA NEWTON October 31, 2012 at 11:14 pm

Please, I am in no way in a hurry to be a pastor or teacher. It is a huge responsibility being that everyone will be judged by every word that proceeds out of their mouth. If any pastor is teaching falsely or in error, even in ignorance, it is a big deal. So my concern isn’t about women teaching… My concern is over false teaching and no one speaking out about it, because they can’t see it. Yet, I’m a woman. I am not married.

My concern is if I’m supposed to keep quiet when I hear something wrong. Please check out these scriptures. One does mention women though:
PSA 68:11
MATT 10:27
LUKE 12:3
LUKE 16:16

PAMELA NEWTON October 31, 2012 at 11:46 pm

Here is PSA 68:11

“The Lord gives the command.
The women who proclaim good tidings are a great host.

Here’s what I get:
This is a command. Women are supposed to proclaim.
This is a prophecy concerning Jesus Christ.

The “good tidings” is the same as the “good news” prophesied about.

It is clearly about Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour. The good news is about His birth, death, resurrection and His return as prophesied over and over again.

Now, when it says “proclaim,” what does that mean?

Jack Wellman November 1, 2012 at 11:59 am

Hi Pam. After reading Matt 21:16 and, in fact, the entire chapter (which is always a valuable key to understanding context) I believe this is not church or even Temple related. The fact is that Jesus, being God of very God, is so much worthy of praise, that even if no humans existed, the very creation itself would proclaim His glory and praises as God’s glory can not be contained even by nature itself for the Psalms proclaim, “the heavens declare the glory of God.” Does this help Mrs. Newton?

Jack Wellman November 1, 2012 at 12:00 pm

Hello Mrs. Newton. After reading Matt 21:16 and, in fact, the entire chapter (which is always a valuable key to understanding context) I believe this is not church or even Temple related. The fact is that Jesus, being God of very God, is so much worthy of praise, that even if no humans existed, the very creation itself would proclaim His glory and praises as God’s glory can not be contained even by nature itself for the Psalms proclaim, “the heavens declare the glory of God.” Does this help Mrs. Newton?

PAMELA NEWTON November 1, 2012 at 7:46 am

And yes, I agree with your teaching about teachers/pastors. I just didn’t know what to with what happened in my church. I did not mean to be an offensive. I regularly visit your site and share the teachings from this site with facebook. I’m in a quandary on what to do and sought out your help. Blessings.

Jack Wellman November 1, 2012 at 11:50 am

Thank you Mrs. Newton. I believe that “proclaim” is an intentional, imperative command given that is like the Great Commission and that we are all told to go into all the world to proclaim the good news. I believe this “proclaim” is just what it says, to proclaim the good news. At one of our Outreach programs we did witnessing at a community event and our women are just as vital at sharing the gospel as the men are. Since women are strong in communication skills, they are actually better equipped in many cases to start a conversation with someone who does not yet know Christ and build a relational bridge for that purpose.

Saying that, I see no comparison of “proclaiming” or “preaching” in the pastoral requirements in a church for those who are called to be pastors and elders. The “proclaiming” does not seem to be directed toward those in the Temple in the Old Testament are reading the entire context of the chapter. I appreciate your visit here.

PAMELA NEWTON November 1, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Dear Mr. Wellman, I agree with you. It took guts to post this article. I never had a problem with it. And now, I also understand what it means about speaking out during service too. It is rude to speak out amidst a congregation during a service. I now know that if there is an issue with a teaching being taught, I freely can go to that person too. God will even use children if He has to. Many blessings to you. 🙂

PAMELA NEWTON November 2, 2012 at 12:26 pm

Mr. Wellman, here is another great scripture. What is your take on the words ‘proclaim’ and ‘preached’ here?

Luke 16:16 NASB

“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Can this tie in with PSA 68:11 mentioned earlier with the word, proclaimed? How would you interpret this?

Thanks.

Jennifer Hoover May 2, 2013 at 9:53 pm

I must say that I too struggled with this verse and I can tell Mr. Wellman that you know the scripture quite well. You are wise, you even favor Thessalonians from your response. One thing I learned about Jesus is that He will talk with you and He gives us His precious Holy Spirit to reveal the mysteries of the gospel. Even though the word of God will last forever and is infallible, He can also change His mind “when” He wants to. The bible was still compiled by the hands of men/flesh but it’s true interpretation should be given through the Holy Spirit. It is very important to talk to God and as a side note:(I even heard that the book of Thomas on was left out on a historical documentary.) If the Lord allows a donkey to speak He can surely call a woman to do the same. I want everyone who reads this to be careful not to fall into “legalism” of which one gets stuck. Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Father; He still speaks today. I can not tell anyone what Jesus told me about this verse for concern that it may offend some, but let’s just say that those who fight the good fight are among the majority to be women and children, we are in a spiritual battle things are not what they used to be and the days are evil. God will use whoever He can; for many are called but few are chosen. To know His heart is to know that He abides by the law of Love because God is Love. And you know Mr. Wellman that God can make a way where there is no way. He came to fulfill the law and He does it in the victory of His Love which knows no bounds. Amen

phishing4men May 3, 2013 at 10:49 am

“One thing I learned about Jesus is that He will talk with you and He gives us His precious Holy Spirit to reveal the mysteries of the gospel. Even though the word of God will last forever and is infallible, He can also change His mind “when” He wants to. The bible was still compiled by the hands of men/flesh but it’s true interpretation should be given through the Holy Spirit”
While God used men “of flesh” as you say it was God who breathed into them what they wrote. I am not sure what you mean by ” Jesus will talk to you”. Do you mean in an audible voice or that Holy Spirit will bring our spirit into agreement with the truth as God reveals it to us in the Word.
“If the Lord allows a donkey to speak He can surely call a woman to do the same.” This statement has nothing to do with women being elders or pastors. And if God wanted the book of Thomas to be in the Bible as we have it it would have been there.
“He still speaks today” yes He does, through Scripture not some new revelation spoken by self appointed prophets so called. Your comments cause me concern that you may be being influenced by some of the “new” spirituality of the new age or emerging church which teaches things about “God speaking today” extra biblically and all the ideas coming out of a mystical bent. God has revealed to us the mystery of life, and all we require to please and glorify Him and live godly lives. The secret things belong to God and may or may not be revealed to us in eternity. God speed sister and be careful what field you glean your “truth” from. If you start hearing audible voices in this dispensation be concerned.

Jennifer Hoover May 3, 2013 at 7:21 pm

Prophets are not self appointed, They are God appointed. Don’t you know what the scripture says?
” I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.” It also says: “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me… just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.”
Anyone who does not hear their shepherd’s voice concerns me. He speaks to each individual in his own way. Let me remind you about Moses and I quote; “The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.” Exodus 33:11
You might want to meditate on this biblical fact.
Who are you to judge to whom and how God chooses to speak to a man or woman? Do not judge or you will be judged and to the same measure.
I know who my Shepherd is His name is Jesus Christ. There are God appointed prophets and as you know they are all listed under the gifts. How do you think prophets hear from God? I would sit and talk with a few that you know hopefully you know at least one; to explain to you the revelations they receive from God.
There is a call on the church body; can you hear that? He is saying that the harvest is plentiful but the harvesters are few… He will choose a woman Like Deborah to lead if no one else steps up to the call in order to fulfill His purpose. (And you know what I am talking about don’t you?) The Lord also just gave me that insight; touche.
One thing that always amazes me about him pushperson is that God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise and the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty. ” And just when we think we have people figured out; God sends us a curve ball; I am that curve ball:)
Believe it or not I am a lot more practical than you may think and that is because I know Him and I deeply, deeply love Him. Just ask Him to confirm this and He will:)

Jack Wellman May 3, 2013 at 9:15 pm

Jennifer, since you said you know your Shepherd’s voice and it is Jesus but He DOES speak to us in the written Word, the Bible and the Bible says that men can be pastors (dozens of places) but there is not even one single Scripture or example where a woman is or can be qualified to be one. If so, show me.

You wrote:

“You might want to meditate on this biblical fact.
Who are you to judge to whom and how God chooses to speak to a man or woman? Do not judge or you will be judged and to the same measure.”

If I or Phishing4men are judging anything, we judge according to what Jesus says, not what we think or say. By the way we ARE told to judge by Jesus but judge righteously.

In the first two words of this passage, Jesus does tells us to “Judge not…” But these two words have been perverted and twisted to teach that when one calls the actions of another error and expresses that continuance in such ways will condemn the soul, that individual is judging, which is supposedly “condemned” in the Bible. But from the context of this passage, what judging is forbidden? Is it judging that makes a distinction between right and wrong? Is there never a time and place for seeing and reprimanding a fault?

If we take the view that judging is completely and totally forbidden, then that would make the doctrinal and moral purity of the church impossible to maintain. This would violate other teachings and divine examples that Christ has revealed in His word (see: Matthew 7:15; John 5:30; 7:24). It would commit us to neutrality and that is the very opposite of the stance Christ wants us to take. As in John 7:24, we ARE to judge when we see error in others beliefs according to what is in the written Word, the Bible “but judge with righteous judgment.” I think this article is fair in judging whether a woman can be a pastor or not.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 1:53 pm

“I’m supposed to keep my mouth shut and watch in silence,because I’m a woman, and everyone be deceived, because the pastor is above reproach”
Jack did not say that Pamela your over sensitivity to the subject might reveal something in you that you might tend to. You jumped to a wrong conclusion and are ready to jump on the messanger, instead go to the word and jump on God. It is what God said, Jack only quoted Him.

PAMELA NEWTON November 1, 2012 at 12:01 am

You misunderstood me phishing4men. I see I was not clear enough. I was not jumping on him as you say I was, but seeking advice on my church pastor, as I am a woman. And I do not seek to be a teacher or pastor. Thanks.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 12:50 pm

This article is bias. I think you need to include that many Christian denominations allow woman to be pastors and lead. Both my parents are Methodist pastors. I go to a Vineyard church now, and women also pastor. I’m sure you’re not saying these churches are wrong? Each denomination interoperates the bible a little differently. You need to make it clear that you’re stating the views of your denomination, NOT all Christians. And Jesus is about spreading love. Since we are his hands and feet, can you imagine him saying, “That woman can’t lead others to me”? That may be an assumption but you’re implying that since Jesus didn’t originally send woman out, he didn’t want them in leadership.
If you are stating woman shouldn’t have leadership roles then why do so many Christian churches believe they should? I am surprised this is coming from this site. You need to give BOTH CHRISTIAN VIEWS not just your own. I’m sure I can have a pastor to write a rebuttal in response to this. I can ask a man also, so that you’ll post it.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 1:37 pm

I am biased…yes, I adhere to what is revealed in Scripture alone. As I have said, if we can start coming up with our own ideas outside of the Bible, this is dangerous precedence and if it is in the Bible, I know it is true. Just because “so many” do things, does not make it right. Doing what is right is not always popular and doing what is popular is not always right, but the Word of God is always right, whether popular or not.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 1:57 pm

Mr Wellman, Thank you for all your correspondence today, I appreciate that.
In closing- I am just speaking up for the many Christian denominations who believe it’s acceptable for women to lead and preach. There will never be a winner of this issue. I just think that a “Christian site” should share both views- because there is no “right” answer here, and they’re projecting your view as the correct one.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 2:08 pm

So true Mrs. Zimmerman. I will never judge other churches for I am busy with my own man in the mirror, a train wreck, wretched, sinner who is utterly and desperately wicked who is saved only by the grace of God. I believe you are right. This is not really a win-or-lose debate but I do believe that if we rely on the Bible, it is write…always and always the correct view because God and His Word are not capable of error or lie (Heb 6:18). I do acknowledge that some Christian denominations accept women but so do some churches accept and ordain homosexual pastors too, but this does not make it right.

Anyway, even since we disagree, I appreciate that you are not being disagreeable and pray God richly blesses you in your walk with Christ.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm

There are not two views only a right view and a wrong view, God did not give us His word that we might come to a consensus but that know, trust and obey. His way is right man’s way is wrong, that is why we are in this fallen world because we trust ourselves to come up with a way not the way. And there will be a winner in this and all issues, and we will see who that is when the Lord returns. Thank you for your grace Lord Jesus, in these last days may you call your remnant to stand on your Word alone, and not the plans devised by sinful man.
God bless you Jack may He keep you fearless of man and fearful of Himself.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 2:15 pm

This article is bias. I think you need to include that many Christian denominations allow woman to be pastors and lead.
Wrong again, the Scripture is biased. What “christian denominations” do is often wrong Sola Scriptura not sola denomination.”Each denomination interoperates the bible a little differently” this is exactly why so many of them are wrong.”Both my parents are Methodist pastors. I go to a Vineyard church now, and women also pastor. I’m sure you’re not saying these churches are wrong?” They are wrong!!”You need to give BOTH CHRISTIAN VIEWS not just your own” Thank God Jack does not give his own opinion he gave Scriptures opinion. “but you’re implying that since Jesus didn’t originally send woman out, he didn’t want them in leadership” I wont imply as it is obvious or He would have chosen a woman, doesnt mean He didnt love them but had a different role for them which women have been rebelling against since the Garden, at one time it was not intended for a woman to experience pain in child birth which now is a reminder of the result of not doing it God’s way, but one day all of man’s wonderful ideas will be as wood hay and stubble, I just hate it has to wait till then if we would but know the Word and submit to it.

I’m sure I can have a pastor to write a rebuttal in response to this.” I am quite sure you can find a “pastor” these days to say most anything and very sure you can find a woman “pastor” to rebut this. I am not as kind as Jack in my responses, but you are among the throng of deceived folk today that are making a god of their own liking which is idolatry, among the “this is what scripture means to me” crown. God help us to see your Holiness and that your ways are far above our ways. Your argument is with God not Jack

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 2:30 pm

wow after reading all your rants Phishing4men, I’m officially checking out. I wish you the best in your walk.

In Christ Love, Debbie

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 2:41 pm

Thanks for the good wish Debbie, if you see them as rants thats fine as long as you check out the Word and not just checking out. If you just check out you will be no closer to truth, I pray you get into the Word and leave your bias behind or you will continue to interpret It by your own experience and miss the truth, you probably do not believe it but I love you and will correct my wrong thinking as I know I am a sinner and subject to much error as well as pray the same for you. It amazes me God loves those on both sides of a disagreement. Peace and grace to us both.

Debbie Zimmerman October 31, 2012 at 2:33 pm

And thank you again Mr. Wellman 🙂

Derek October 31, 2012 at 4:04 pm

Hello Debbie. I want to say “thank you” for being mature and respectful through this discussion. I just want to encourage you to take everything that you know and test the scriptures. If you believe in 2 Tim 3:16 (all scripture is God breathed), then please consider that maybe you are wrong on this one. Please don’t take me as rude. Sure Paul is the one who wrote these qualifications, but he did not decide on them. God was the decider and He used His sovereign ways to use Paul to write His Holy Word on paper. With that said, it can be scary when things are added to the Bible. With so many verses pointing to men as pastors and none specifically stating that women are allowed to be pastors, there is an issue here. God made male and female different for a variety of reasons and I encourage you to read and follow what the Word of God says. I hope I don’t sound condescending. I am only looking out for you and to maintain the clarity of scripture as the 100% guideline of how to live life and conduct ourselves. God bless you Debbie.

phishing4men October 31, 2012 at 2:33 pm

I knew you were going to take fire for this one my brother, but they are firing blanks. Thank God for His protection over you friend, we have discussed many time the persecution that comes when we stand solely on God’s Word. Peace and grace to you brother and am praying a speedy healing for those broken ribs and but I now they are not as painful as seeing folks so deceived and often interpreting scripture out of bitterness and pain. May God open all our eyes to see and ears to hear in theses last days.

Robert October 31, 2012 at 3:53 pm

Jack,
This issue, along with others, will be debated until Jesus comes back. Good, Godly, saved, Bible-honoring people are on both sides of the issue, and both believe the Bible, and God. What’s that old saying?…In the essentials unity, in the non-essentials liberty, and in all things…charity. God bless you.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 4:14 pm

Thank you sir. I can only trust what the Bible says and try and rely upon human opinion, I would be a fool. As always, your words full of grace bespeak of the Holy Spirit in you sir.

Derek October 31, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Thank you for this article Jack. I applaud you for touching on such a controversial issue in such a graceful way. The Bible is the inspired Word of God and it is “God-breathed” (2 Tim 3:16) Your evaluation is 100% correct and follows the Bible completely. Well done sir!

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 4:21 pm

Derek, your words are like a salve to my soul. I knew this would bring persecution and mostly from Christians, but the unvarnished Word of God is solid ground, all other ground is sinking sand. I thank God for your encouragement for it came at a time like the latter rains do for the harvest or a rain in the desert place.

Lorna Lacey March 6, 2013 at 2:10 am

I have read most of the postings, it is clear to me that Jack was just quoting scripture, I am sorry some have not seen it that way. I do have a question though, a pastor at a church I have been to a couple of times, has been previously married. I know this is controversial to some as well, but when the Bible says the husband of one wife, does it mean as in not having more than 1 wife at the same time or just having 1 wife til she dies then its ok to remarry or say, he was not saved when he got a divorce, then got saved and married a Christian woman and then became a preacher, is it ok that he praches? Would you go to this church? What are your thoughts on this?

Jack Wellman March 6, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Hello Lorna. Thank you for your comment and question. I believe what Paul was saying was that the pastor should be a one-woman-man but if this man has divorced his wife except for adultery, then he is unqualified. I don’t know the reasons he has been married and divorced though. If his wife left him or she committed adultery or or his previous wife died, then he should be allowed to be an ordained pastor like in the case. I would probably go to this church and not let that stop me. Some denominations and some churches will not agree with this but I know of many godly men who were not saved when they divorced or their wives divorced them and then got saved and married a Christian woman. I see no real conflict but I am sure many would disagree with me on this. The main thing is whether Christ and the cross is preached and the messages are biblically centered.

Pamela Rose Williams October 31, 2012 at 5:52 pm

Jack, you are so brave. I knew when I first saw this one that it would receive many comments and I dare say we are just at the brink of receiving them. I am so proud to call you my brother and honored to have you here at WCWTK. You have taken on a very controversial subject and you have shared what the Word of God says on the subject. Regardless of the practices of various denominations, the Bible is clear here. I do not see it as bias as some would say and from a woman’s point of view, I am happy to let the men lead — notwithstanding the need for women to teach the children and other women and be involved in many other areas of ministry. Thank you for standing on the truth.

Jack Wellman October 31, 2012 at 8:25 pm

Pam, your words are like Derek’s to me…truly a salve to my soul. I had no doubt that this subject would bring persecution and mostly from Christians, but the unvarnished Word of God is solid ground, all other ground is sinking sand. I thank God for your encouragement too Pam for it came at a time like the latter rains do for the harvest or a rain in the desert place and sorely needed but as I heard one teacher say, “The truth sets you free…or it makes you really mad.”

BenGrace November 1, 2012 at 2:17 am

Thank you, Jack, for your well-writen article which, I believe, reflects my understanding of the Scriptures.

Who says our women have no role in in Church? Susanna Wesley, for instance, ‘never wrote a book, not preached a sermon, never pastored a Chuch, nor founded one’. Didn’t she have a ministry? I do not want to remind Debby that her parents wouldn’t have a Church, perhaps, if there was not a woman called Susanna Wesley, who ministered to each of her 19 Children including John and Charles Wesley.

Every Word of the Scriptures is God-breathed and, irespective of who said or wrote, the fact remins the same.

Women have their own unique ‘ministry’ of raising godly generations and I believe they are irreplaceable in that. If that is so, why do some of them insist on disobeying the specifiic command and lead men spiritually?

It is high time we returned to what the Scriptures say rather than what certain denominations taught and practiced.

Thanks all for this lively and illuminating thread of iscussons.

Jack Wellman November 1, 2012 at 11:42 am

Thank you BenGrace. Let me say something that I should have included in this article. My wife is part and parcel of my pastorate. I could never survive the pastoral position without my beloved and I believe it may be harder for her than for me for she is under the microscope always (unfairly). I believe that the wife is part of the ministry…so much so that I would have the chance of a snowball surviving in Death Valley (Cal) in August without her. We both ARE in the same ministry, my beloved and I.

Pamela Rose Williams November 2, 2012 at 4:55 pm

Jack you are a wise and caring man to honor your wife in this way. Thank you for reminding others that even though a woman is not qualified to be the “pastor” she is part of the pastorate when her husband is the pastor. I resemble that. Blessings!

Robert November 1, 2012 at 7:50 am

I would like to interject some thoughts that may not be popular, but then again, that’s not something with which I am unfamiliar.

The issue of women’s roles in the church is not an essential issue for salvation. Neither viewpoint is heresy.

Some will say that it’s an issue of biblical authority…that is correct. However, both viewpoints are based on solid biblical points (which I will not indulge in airing out here), and espoused by dedicated followers of Jesus.

My advice, take it our leave it, would be this: if one is convinced by God and His Word that women can serve as they wish, they should attend a church that supports this view. If one is convinced, by God and His Word, that women are limited in the functions they can perform and positions they can fill, then they should attend a church that agrees with that viewpoint.

Both groups should exercise humility, and realize that they simply may be wrong on the issue. It is wrong of either group to accuse the other of rejecting biblical authority, because both are attempting to honor God and obey His Word as they understand it.

I pray this will be taken in the spirit it was intended, a spirit of reconciliation, not a contentious spirit.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men November 3, 2012 at 12:10 am

Robert how do we support that two opposing views can both be true according to scripture? Women should be accepted/ordained as pastors elders etc/////Women should not to be accepted/ordained as pastors, elders etc.

Robert Driskell November 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm

phishing4men,
The law of non-contradiction says that two things cannot ‘be’ and ‘not be’ at the same time and in the same manner. That’s just a long winded way of me saying that we can’t support two opposing views as both being true according to Scripture. Therefore, either one or the other is true, neither is true and there is a third option, or we just can’t be certain. You must admit that there are doctrinal issues that have been, and still, are disagreed upon by sincere Christians (end times, spiritual gifts, can salvation be lost, etc.). This does not indicate a deficiency in the Word of God, but it does indicate our limitations in interpretations. On issues that are not essential to salvation, we must allow that we do not know everything and that someone else may be right. Then we get on with sharing Jesus with a lost and hurting world. Believing a woman can be a pastor is not heresy, it will not nullify anyone’s salvation. Therefore, it belongs alongside those other issues which we will debate until Jesus comes back. God bless you, brother.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men November 7, 2012 at 1:16 am

What scripture supports or allows for the third option? Do you personally have a belief in one or the other regarding this issue, do you personally believe a woman is qualified to be an elder, pastor, bishop etc or that she is not qualified for same? I believe the third option opens the door for dialog and consensus which is what happened in Genesis to Eve, Satan got Eve to dialog instead of obey Gods direction she was then able to decide for herself it was ok to eat of the tree.This is repeating itself in the Church today within the emergent movement and Warrens purpose driven approach. I know you do not agree with me but this issue is as clear as a man was not given the ability to bear children and women we not able to impregnate a man, God’s different role for man and woman. He surely must have had a reason to not directly say that a woman could qualify as an elder. I know our differences will not be resolved here but the comments disagreeing with the article are mostly, I think, I feel type of objections which always evolves from consensus. While I agree it is not essential to ones salvation, scripture states “ALL scripture is given for reproof, instruction etc. so in the whole scope of things if one is wrong on this issue it would open the door to consequences that would negatively effect the lives of believers. It seems very clear to the author of this article else I am sure he would not have published it, knowing he is not perfect his defense is quite sound. One of the two views is true, the other false, the false view and the cannot be sure view will have consequences to the one holding those views and the others they influence. I understand we cannot know perfectly all things in this life, so until the time comes we will know, I suppose I will be bound to accept that you have your view and I have mine and in that fact accept one another as brothers in Christ as our opposing views do not affect that fact, God speed.

Robert November 7, 2012 at 7:08 am

phishing,
That is the beauty of God’s love. We can disagree and still be brothers in Christ. God bless you always.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Shirley Watkins November 6, 2012 at 8:20 am

I agree with your post. I really like the wisdom you used in posting it. A woman, Mary, carried the Word of God for 9 months before man ever saw Him. Then at the resurrection a woman carried the message of the resurrection. So, I think God pretty much uses who He wants to use.

phishing4men July 10, 2013 at 11:43 am

Mary and the women that carried the message of the resurrection were surely used of God, however they were not elders or pastors. The author is not saying God does not use women, just hat they should not be pastors or elders. God has designed different rolls for men and women, why is that so hard to accept. Can a woman be a father, can a father bear a child. When we do things according to God’s design He is glorified, when we dont do according to His design……

Cherie December 12, 2012 at 1:19 pm

I agree. God gives us the freedom to choose for ourselves–right or wrong–the choice is ours alone.

I agree that women should not be pastors as does my Mum. I have to chuckle though…my Mum says the first thing she wants to ask God is why this is so.

We might not always like or understand the reasoning behind what God/bible says, but we can’t pick and choose what we will or will not follow in our lives.

I consider my Mum the wisest women ever when it comes to living by the bible. She has set a wonderful example for her children and others in her life.

mark November 1, 2012 at 10:28 am

is it harmful for children to watch video games for several hours each day that depict war and violence?

Jack Wellman November 1, 2012 at 11:03 am

Mark, thank you sir. Yes, it is most assuredly affecting the brain for scientific studies have shown that, even passively, children (and adults too!) are affected negatively by what violence they take in. If you read Romans 12:1-2 even Christians need to renew their mind. Garbage in garbage out is so true. There are better video game alternatives…and there is also the risk of epilepsy too by the way.

Judy E. Harrell November 5, 2012 at 6:46 pm

It is very hard in this day and age for people to accept what the Bible says pure and simple! A woman does not have to be a Pastor in order to lead people to Christ!! She can win others by submitting to the authority of her husband. If he is a Godly man he will not take advantage of that, just the opposite! He will treat her with love, honor and respect. There are reasons why woman should not usurp authority over a man. God ordained reasons!! In this world where woman’s liberation has over stepped its boundaries, couples are confused as to what their roles are. Many young men are confused and bewildered with woman taking over everything. I believe that what the Bible teaches is correct and the only way to have a happy family! Jack is there any way I can submit content to start a blog on this platform or is it only for those who have degrees. If so there are many things troubling me about our present day society that I would love to present!

It is hard living the Christian life in this day and age but it is still the best way to live. The reason why our society is so troubled is because we have strayed from our Christian roots and no one wants to respect anyone anymore!! Too many chiefs and not enough Indians!! We all can’t be president of a company can we? Then why is it so hard to believe that the man should be the head of the house?? Woman spend so much time trying to dominate their man that they end up hurting themselves in the end! God makes the rules for our own happiness! He created us and knows what is best. In fact, in our society most husbands don’t even know how to lead because our society is so upside down and they have never seen the example of a loving Christian household. Therefore, it is up to the loving Christian wife to help her husband to become the leader God has ordained. Women need to stop trying to be men and embrace all the JOY of womanhood that God intended for them.

Jack Wellman November 6, 2012 at 12:39 pm

Judy, your such a godly woman of faith that is so humble that I have seen how God has used you in a powerful way already. As for submitting content, I can not answer that for I am not the one that makes that decision.

Please click on the “Contact Us” link and submit this request and we can see if this is possible. I have known you for some time now and I already know that your Bible knowledge is solid, your theology is well grounded theologically, and your wisdom of the Scriptures is superb. I do hope that you can and I know that wherever you write or wherever you comment, you will always have a great contribution for you are always edifying, exhorting, and encouraging, of which these days, we can never have enough of from Christians like you. You are the real deal, an authentic and genuine believer to who I thank God for.

Lorna Lacey March 6, 2013 at 2:17 am

Judy, very well stated, I believe everything you said!

Jack Wellman March 6, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Judy Harrell is one of the godliest woman I know of Lorna. Thank you for your comment. I have known this lady for some time now. She is a precious saint and close friend of mine.

Shirley Watkins November 6, 2012 at 8:17 am

We know that God uses male in many sentences and instructions when he is talking to the church. But He calls the church “she or Her”. So if women can not carry the gospel in preaching and pastoring, it would seem that men can not make up the body of Christ. People forget when fighting over doctrine the the Holy Spirit is the minister and he is doing the preaching whether using a male or female. For there is neither male nor female with God.

Jack Wellman November 6, 2012 at 12:35 pm

Thank you Mrs. Watkins. If God had intended for women to be pastors, then He would not have said that men are to be. Please review the Scriptures and show me where the Scriptures are that reveal that God says it is permissible to do so then I will believe. The quote “there in neither male nor female with God” is talking about salvation for there is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, and this is not talking about the qualifications for being a pastor or elder. Context is very important in the Bible. Yes, women carried the message of the resurrection, but so did Peter, Paul, James, John and the others. The message of the resurrection is sharing the gospel and has nothing to do with the qualifications of the office of pastor or elder. Even so, I appreciate your kind remarks and hope you come back again soon.

Shinu November 8, 2012 at 7:03 am

Yes Bible have clearely distingush between male and women becuase female came out from man.

I would like to point out some major evet from bible

Who done first Sin ?
What abraham brother loath dughters done ?
Sara made big problem for his husband ?
rebeca forced jacob to cheat his brother ?
what meegal done ?
who cut the John baptist head?

ther is lot of thing………
Thats why God told I am not permiting authority on man for women

If they have authority it will led to failures of the world
becuase thats thier natural behaviour

dothy November 12, 2012 at 9:27 am

I fully agree with you Shirley!

phishing4men November 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm

In the past, God’s unchanging Word was the ultimate test of right and wrong and our goal was knowing God’s will and aligning our thoughts to His truth. Now the goal is to bond diverse people into a “family” that must “respect” all kinds of Biblical interpretations and contrary opinions—even when conclusions clash with the Bible. The old guidelines for discussion were based on God’s call for agapeo love, kindness, patience and scriptural integrity. Today’s ground rules are based on humanistic psychology and manipulative guidelines for social transformation, “relational vitality,” emotional unity and collective synergy.

From “Whats Wrong With The 21st Century Church”

Kangyang Richard November 10, 2012 at 9:04 am

Jack well spoken God bless you. I want to know Biblically on Women wearing mens cloths and Men wearing women’s own. (2. Praying with uncovered hair.)

Jack Wellman November 10, 2012 at 11:46 am

Hello Kangyang. I believe that women praying with uncovered hair was a time-sensitive, culturally oriented thing and that women are not restricted to wearing or required to wear a covering for their head in church. By far, the most popular approach to Paul’s teaching on the role of women by evangelicals is to write it all off as culturally oriented, for a particular people and occasion: “Thus, the focus of Paul’s concern with the covering of the prophetic women’s head would appear as an issue of concern in his day, rather than a general principle of worship.”26

Lest we should become puffed up because we take the Scriptures seriously and literally, let me also say that there has been a great deal of injustice done by Christian men whose egos are slightly over-enlarged and who have used the teachings of Paul to domineer and dictate their wives. Such was never the intent of the Scriptures. We, as Christian men, must recognize that the Scriptures speak clearly not only in the matter of the submission of women.

As for women and men wearing the opposite sex’s clothing, the restriction is mentioned in and part of the Old Testament covenant as in Duet 22:5 which says, “A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.” I also don’t think this applies to our culture but we as men or women ought not try to appear looking like the opposite sex but I see no restriction in the New Testament over this.

Personally, I think we would be better served to focus on the job descriptions of Christian men and women and they are all summed up nicely in Rom 12, 1 Cor 13 and 1 John chapter 3. Let us not be so much concerned with others roles but about our own and the rest will take care of itself. As long as we don’t violate Scripture. It is comforting to know that Christ is the Head of the Church…no human really is.

Mlamuli November 12, 2012 at 3:13 am

Hallo Jack! in the biggining of your article you qoute the powerful verse 1Cor 14:34.I’m totaly lost about those who are still disagree with you.This is so simple and straight forward Jack,God bless you.Thanks a mil!

Jack Wellman November 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm

Thank you Mlamuli. They are not really disagreeing with me but with the Bible on which I stand firm.

Lorna Lacey March 6, 2013 at 2:21 am

I agree, I could not nor can I understand, it is as you said in plain black and white. Pray for her to have clarity, and discernment,

Robert November 12, 2012 at 3:22 pm

Greetings,
I certainly do not want to be percieved as contentious, but in all fairness, we cannot say that anyone who does not agree with a particular interpretation of these passages is in fact disagreeing with God, or the Bible. There are certainly Godly men and women who merely disagree with an ‘interpretation’ of these passages. A case in point is this I Corinthians 14:34 passage that was mentioned. It must be interpreted in its context to be understood correctly. The problem is that the context isn’t clear. We know the Corinthian Christians wrote a letter asking questions of Paul. He was answering these questions in this letter [I Corinthians]. We certainly do not expect women to simply keep their mouths shut while in church, do we? I certainly hope this is not the line of thinking we are to adopt.
Anyway, as I’ve said before, this is an issue that saved, dedicated followers of Jesus will continue to discuss. This is not an issue that is essential to salvation (once again, no one is questioning the Bible, only one’s interpretation of it), so it seems that the law of liberty (Romans 14) would apply here.
May God continue to bless each and every one of us.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman November 12, 2012 at 8:05 pm

I believe that we can agree to disagree, but I also believe that the qualifications for pastors and elders are clearly indicated in Scriptures. There was not one single woman pastor ordained in the New Testament and every single one of the qualifications mentioned are that He should be the husband of one wife and it was gender-specific in the Greek text and not attributable to the masculine form of language (i.e. 1 Tim 3:1-16, 1 Tim 2:12-14) Both elders and pastors are mentioned in the masculine, saying he must be blameless (1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:6-7), he must be the husband of one wife (1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:6), he must be apt to teach (1 Tim 3:2, 1 Tim 2:24), he must rule his own household well (1 Tim 3:4), he must have his children in subjection (1 Tim 3:4, Titus 1:6), he must not be a novice (new Christian) lest he be filled with pride (1 Tim 3:6), he must have a good reputation (1 Tim 3:7), and hold fast to the faith that he was taught (Titus 1:9). There is no other way to translate the original Greek than that of a male. The qualifications therefore include that the pastor must be a “he.” Just as a woman can not have authority over a man (Eph 5:24) why would it be different in a church?

I know that this is not a salvation issue but what the Bible teaches and I must stand firm in that. The seminary I am not at Dr. David Jeremiah’s believes this, so does John Mac Arthur, R.C. Sproul, Charles Stanley, Irwin Lutzer, Charles Swindoll, James McDonald, and they are all firm in this. They are so brilliant in theology than I can even hope to be. Also, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards…and hundreds more. Women pastors are a recent occurrence for they have not been in the church throughout the ages until the last 80 years or so. Are the church fathers, the great reformers, the recent theologians all be wrong? I don’t believe they are. If I can be shown from Scriptures then I will be persuaded. To argue from silence from the Scriptures is like allowing homosexuals to be ordained into the ministry too. I don’t want to shake anyone’s faith either but is is not that we say its not, but what the Bible teaches. I don’t see any conflict of interpretation. The one about a woman being silent in church is not one that I lean upon but Paul even said that they were to be silent and is was a shame for a woman to speak in church. None of us have perfect understand and we can’t judge their hearts, but where in the Bible does it reveal that women can be or have been pastors? I can’t find it. I will leave it at that for I too am not into debating and even though it is not essential to someone’s salvation, it is essential to teach truth when it is revealed in the Bible though not essential to salvation particularly because we are saved by Christ alone (Acts 4:12). I too don’t want stumbling blocks because I am a sinner, a train wreck, and no holier than anyone.

Robert November 13, 2012 at 7:02 am

Jack,
Thanks for your response. I know your heart too, so I take this as two brothers wrestling in the living room floor (metaphorically speaking). I too love the Bible and want to do as God wants me to do. Maybe I will have a different understanding of these passages at some point. Until then, this issue goes on the back burner to make room for more important things. Let us spread the good news of the Gospel, brother.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Chege Johnson November 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm

Hello Jack. I just love this article. I just love the how you put it and its clear message which you just picked from the Bible, which is God’s voice speaking to people. Its either way, take it or leave it. It doesnt mean that the bible want to discriminate women but He want some order of AUTHORITY in the church. Women have some role to play. Let us not bring controversy in what God commands us. We lets not mix the gospel with other bills of right or trying to show positions or seniority. If we love our God then we obey His word. It doesn’t matter the opinion of men, the foundation stands sure, we are under this obligation to follow the word to the letter. Some argue what about those without husbands whom do they enquire, whats your take on this Pastor. God bless you.

Jack Wellman November 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Absolutely, women have a definite role in the church for the church would be incomplete without women. Jesus put Himself under the authority of the Father but He was not less God and equal in every way to the Father & still is. So women are seen as equals before God’s eyes and they will inherit the same rewards in the Kingdom as men. They are co-heirs, co-inheritors, and co-equal.

Those without husbands are under the authority of their pastors, elders, & deacons, but women are certainly qualified to be deaconess’. Besides, my ministry is not of myself…I could not do this without my partner in the ministry…my beloved wife is part & parcel with my pastorate.

Chege Johnson November 13, 2012 at 6:33 pm

Very well put Pastor and that goes with what I had in mind. The elders, pastors and deacons can expound on what women didnt get clearly. The problem with the church today is the ideologies we borrow from the world and try sneaking those ungodilines in the church. Its not about competition or outdoing the other but just being obedient and be subject to the order that God has set. Our beloved wives are very important pillars, vessels of honour in the church. They pray hard, and should note they hold a crucial ministry which only will proceed to heaven, i.e PRAISING & WORSHIPPING. And when they do so God sends His Spirit among His people in that gathering. Pastor Jack, you did put it well that its certain offices i.e bishop, pastors and elders which doesnt mean to demean them but its God’s order in the church. God bless you Pastor.

Jack Wellman December 12, 2012 at 1:12 pm

Cherie, you bring up an excellent point about men pastors who preform gay-marriage ceremony. I believe you are NOT old fashioned but are Spirit-led for if the Bible calls it sin and they preform a marriage between a union that is not God ordained, then that pastor is condoning or approving of such a sinful relationship. Great point. These pastors who perform gay marriages are either not truly regenerated or they are false shepherds for this is not biblical. It would be like condoning theivery or some other sin and putting his blessing on it. Since the Bible is clear that homosexuality is sin and homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, then they should not be performing marriage ceremonies with these men and women marrying same-sex couples. I am so with you on this Cherie.

Cherie December 12, 2012 at 1:54 pm

WA State recently had a same sex marriage vote (it passed) and I voted against allowing it because of my own personal religious beliefs.

I find it odd how many people (who are not gay) are alright with this and voted for it. Their thoughts were that everyone should have the right to marry the person they love.

Here’s my thoughts: I believe there are people who are born gay. Having known people who are gay and talking to them, it is something that has been with them all their lives. I think genetics play a role. However, I have also talked with one gay man who believes it came from the abuse suffered throughout childhood. It is quite possible. Environmental and society can influence a person greatly.

The public schools teach “acceptance” of alternative or gay lifestyles to try and combat the hate crimes against gays. Understandable, but what they should be teaching is human kindness PERIOD. They should not tell students it is ok to be gay, but they do.

I don’t have a problem with a gay person attending a church if they are there to try and learn about the bible and trying to live their life according to the bible. A person can’t change who they were born as, BUT they still have the choice God allows each human to choose how they will live their lives. No different than a married person choosing or not choosing to involve themselves in adultery.

I imagine it a very difficult road for gays. However, you could be gay and still live by God’s word, but it would be a struggle. You would have to never marry, never date or have sex with a same sex partner. Turn away from those thoughts and temptations daily. A gay person would have to find other ways to fill their life with meaning and accept the fact that if they choose to live a Godly life they cannot act on their homesexual desires.

Do you think that God would allow a gay person in heaven if he/she turned away from a sinful gay life and only lived by the bible? God says one sin is no greater than another and he forgives all sins, therefore he would forgive a person who had previously led a gay life–yes?

I am not gay, but I do know gay people. I never treat them any differently than straight people I know. I do not agree with their lifestyle and do not support their lifestyles because of my own religious beliefs, but I don’t hate them as a person either. Rather, I look at it as a sin. A sin for which they have a chose to do or not do.

I don’t think God says it is a sin to be born gay. It is only a sin to live a gay life. I’ve always wondered why gays are born gay? God is surely testing those people.

We are all sinners. So my sin of lying is not any less than their sinful lifestyle or even murder. It is also not up to me to judge them–that’s God’s job, but I feel a vote supporting gay marriage is wrong and goes against the teachings of the bible. Therefore I cannot support it no more than I can support a pastor who performs gay marriages. My vote isn’t judging gays–it just isn’t supporting them.

Jack Wellman December 12, 2012 at 3:07 pm

No one is born gay from what I understand. We are all born sinners. There is not a “gay gene” for example, but even if there were, we can not condone it and I am glad you are not judging people for their sins and I will not either. Many former homosexuals have been born again and they battle the same-sex attraction all their life but if they are not practicing it, God can save them for they have repented of it. The false claim that some are born gay seems to give them peace of mind about their same-sex choices but this would be like we are all born liars, and sinners, and murderers at heart, yet God can put a new heart in us and save us. Neither will I judge them but I will follow what God’s Word, the Bible says, and let “IT” judge them and if one is a practicing homosexual, they should not be in fellowship with the saints for Paul put out of the church those who did such things until they came to repentance. This is not my opinion but I must teach and follow what God says. Thank you Cherie.

phishing4men November 21, 2012 at 12:07 am

Dangerous and Dismaying Trends
by A. W. Tozer
“For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.” Acts 20:29-30
Within the circles of evangelical Christianity itself there has arisen in the last few years dangerous and dismaying trends away from true Bible Christianity.
A spirit has been introduced which is surely not the Spirit of Christ, methods employed which are wholly carnal, objectives adopted which have not one line of Scripture to support them, a level of conduct accepted which is practically identical with that of the world — and yet scarcely one voice has been raised in opposition.
And this in spite of the fact that the Bible-honoring followers of Christ lament among themselves the dangerous, wobbly course things are taking….
The times call for a Spirit-baptized and articulate orthodoxy. They whose souls have been illuminated by the Holy Ghost must arise and under God assume leadership. There are those among us whose hearts can discern between the true and the false, whose spiritual sense of smell enables them to detect the spurious afar off, who have the blessed gift of knowing. Let such as these arise and be heard.
Jack when I read this I thought of you. I am confident you are one of those who have heard the call and have been given the courage to tackle the hard stuff. It is only by His grace you hear His call and have His courage, God speed my brother.

Jack Wellman November 21, 2012 at 8:33 pm

My brother and good friend Phishing4men, I am humbled by your words. Truly it amazes me that we can read the Word of God but not allow the Word of God to read us. We can go thru the Bible but does the Bible go thru us? We can get into the Word of God but do we allow the God of the Word to get in us? My own opinion is worthless as you know, for Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil-good have opinions but I can’t hang my hat on them. To me, it is crystal clear in Scriptures and verse and you can not only hang your hat on that…you can build a house because all other ground is sinking sand and sinking fast. I thank God that there are those that stand firmly on the Rock.

eddie November 23, 2012 at 4:46 pm

I don’t think women should be an “Elder ” or a “Pastor.”
The word of God tells us so and yes women today are so
manly, hard and just out of order. People just don’t believe that the Bible is our road map to Heaven.
E. Carolyn Johnson

skoutlee December 11, 2012 at 1:51 am

Romans 16:1-16
New International Version (NIV)
Personal Greetings
16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon[a][b] of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
3 Greet Priscilla[c] and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. 4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.
?

Jack Wellman December 12, 2012 at 12:23 pm

Thank you Skoutlee for your comment. Priscilla and Aquilla are co-workers, NOT pastors or elders. And Phoebe, a deaconNESS is not a pastor or elder so there is no conflict. A woman can be a deaconess but a deaconess or a deacon is not a pastor or elder. Show me in the Bible where is says that women can be qualified to be a pastor or elder. Thank you.

skoutlee December 18, 2012 at 9:01 am

Sorry just wanted to know, not offend you.

Jack Wellman December 18, 2012 at 10:18 am

Hello Skoutlee, I was not offended my friend. I was just answering your question for which I am grateful that you came here. I know nothing about doctrine except what is revealed in the Bible for my own opinions are worthless compared to the Word of God Skoutlee. I appreciate your comments as always.

Pam December 17, 2012 at 10:42 am

I hate to switch topics, but I can’t find what I am looking for. There are so many wonderful helpful, insightful articles and I have referred many people to this website. I am looking for information on the do’s and don’ts of women and hair coverings and proper or appropriate modest dress for women, and scriptures related to it. I was raised where women should not cut their hair, wear pants, no jewelry, and should keep their hair/head covered. I am looking for some guidance in these areas, as I am raising my 2 granddaughters ages 10 and 12 and wait to lead them properly but through scriptures and proper understanding.
Thank you for your time. I love your website and come to it often.

Jack Wellman December 17, 2012 at 11:14 am

Hello Pam. No problem about switching topics. That’s fine. I believe that women and girls should dress in a feminine manner just as men should dress in a masculine manner. I don’t believe that short hair or wearing pants is a problem because Paul was stating that in, I believe in the letter to the Corinthians, because some women there who were formerly pagan worshippers had cut off ALL of their hair and appeared bald and so I don’t think there is any restriction for girls or women wearing pants or having short hair for Paul was addressing a specific group of women in that time and circumstance.

I am so glad that your girls have a godly mother that wants to raise them up in the Lord and truly, they are blessed to have a women of faith as you for their mother Pam. I thank God for mothers such as you.

Pam December 17, 2012 at 11:34 am

Thank you Mr. Wellman for replying so quickly. I ask these questions mainly because my 12 yr. old granddaughter upon reading her bible had questions in regards to 1 Corinthians 11 and head coverings. She brought up many valid points and so as I dug deeper, I found and realize that I questioned many things myself. My answer to all their questions on these biblical scriptures are to pray for guidance and answers from God alone. See my biggest issue with many topics today, as I dig deeper and grow spiritually, is just how many scriptures can be and are sometimes twisted into suiting an individuals own needs. It is sometimes very difficult to find just the right answers for myself and these children and I do not want to lead them wrong. Thanks for a great website and all your help.
Blessings to you!

ytwong March 3, 2013 at 3:27 pm

I don’t know why when you talk about covering the women’s heads you said that Paul was addressing to a specific group of women in that time and circumstances. Were they the same group of women who caused confusion in the church? I know in pagan worship, the women dominate or play an important role in goddess worship, that’s why they have priestesses, temple harlots. witches. Would it be because of this reason Paul strongly against this practice in God’s Church? I don’t believe God only assigns man to preach to man, woman is excluded. I watched a movie talking about a female missionary in China. One day in busy hour in a restaurant, lots of men were dining there. This lady stood up and told the story of Jesus to the audience. The owner tried to stop her for interrupting his customers. All the men said to him, ‘Why stop her, we want to know more. We have never heard a story like that.’ Tell me, is this lady violated Paul’s teaching? Should she stopped preaching to these men, salvation would have no chance to reach their families.
Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. He had to face a lot of the pagan traditions and cultures practiced in churches. He had to stop them from spreading their teaching in churches. If you read it carefully, Paul never said what kind of teaching was not allowed for women to teach. If he was addressing to a specific group, that is understandable. If preaching or teaching the Word of God to men is forbidden because you are a woman, does that sound right to you? I totally understand the submissive part. It is easy to point finger at the women not submissive. No body asks what if a husband or pastor is not submissive to Christ. As the leader of the church, they should love their sheep, feed them, protect and care for them, but they don’t. Suddenly they find some godly women called into the ministry, they are trying to defend their authorities by quoting Scriptures that women cannot do this and that.
I can assure you, any godly woman is submissive. Leadership is not her interest, saving souls is!!!!!!

Jack Wellman March 3, 2013 at 6:08 pm

Thank you so much for your wonderful comment. You asked if it was because of women being in “pagan worship, the women dominate or play an important role in goddess worship, that’s why they have priestesses, temple harlots. witches. Would it be because of this reason Paul strongly against this practice in God’s Church?” I don’t believe that was the case. Women who were into pagan worship often shaved their heads and some came to faith in Christ and still had shaven heads and so the head covering may have been for that.

I think you make a great point. As a pastor myself, I had better be submitting to Christ or I have no such authority or right to be one. I believe women are equally effective in proclaiming the gospel and I know of so many women who are fantastic missionaries and some of the greatest missionaries in history have been women. The difference is that they were not the pastor of a church. Men are not one bit better but we are exactly equals to women in every way except by God’s ordaining men. Jesus was equally God but He submitted to the will of the Father but Jesus is no less God than the Father or the Holy Spirit. Thank you for your passionate desire to reach the lost.

ytwong March 3, 2013 at 8:36 pm

I don’t know why the term Pastor is so exclusive to some male pastors. The church I used to go had many Pastors. one pastor of Christian Education, he said he had no interest in running the church. He just wanted to teach what he studied from the Word, one youth pastor, one Women Ministry pastor. she faithfully helped and cared for the women in her church. She provided Spiritual counseling to families who were facing difficulties at times. They all work together under the leadership of the senior Pastor. How can you be so sure you are ordained by God to be a Pastor? Is it because of your heart for God or you graduated from a famous Bible College or a few Senior Pastor laid hands on you and prayed some nice encouraging prayers in your ordaining ceremony? Or, you know about the Bible more than anybody else? What makes you feel yourself so special? I know a few young men who just came out from Bible Colleges, without life experiences, very shallow Bible knowledge, no discernment from the Holy Spirit were ordained as pastors leading churches. I also know some godly women who diligently studying the Word. When I sat down to talk to one of them, her Bible knowledge and the understanding of the Word were so profound. But the church shunned her from teaching Bible study. She was only allowed to teach kids Sunday School. I started to question about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are gifts of teaching, administration, ministry and many more. Are some of the gifts exempted for women? Not all pastors who carry that title have the ambition to rule in the church. One senior Pastor humbly says, “My authority is from God and His Word, not from my title.”
To me, title means nothing. Important thing is, you have the heart for the Lord and the love for the lost souls.
Please stop arguing about who has the right to be pastor or who doesn’t. Accept those who have the heart for the Lord and work with them together for the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jack Wellman March 3, 2013 at 8:42 pm

I am not arguing. Can you show me the Bible verses that say women can be ordained as pastor? I stand on the Word of God the Bible. I am sorry you don’t like it. What other churches do is irrelevant compared to what God says in the Bible. Accept what God says over what you think, please.

You asked, “How can you be so sure you are ordained by God to be a Pastor?” Because the Bible says so. Please review the Scriptures that say so in this article and the Scripture can not be broken. This is not my personal opinion but the Word of God.

Here is only one (of very, many!): It is Paul’s instructions to Timothy in 3:1-7:

This is a faithful saying: If a MAN desires the position of a bishop, HE desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules HIS own house well, having HIS children in submission with all reverence (for if a MAN does not know how to rule HIS own house, how will HE take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride HE fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover HE must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.”

How can you argue with God and His Word? Again, I ask, show me ONE verse where it says “SHE” or a woman can be ordained as a pastor.

Stephen June 30, 2013 at 10:31 am

Well said Jack. But something I realized a long time ago is that the church is filled with people who only believe what they want to believe. I find that those who support female pastors couldn’t care less what the Bible says. They will cherry pick and take verses out of context. Nothing you say will change their mind. Some Christians care about truth, while others don’t. Jesus Himself said that only few will enter heaven. How often do people hear that in church? I personally hate going to church, not because I don’t love God, but because of all the false teaching and ear tickling that goes on. Lord help us!

Jack Wellman June 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Stephen my friend. I can appreciate your comments but to say you hate church is like saying you hate the Body of Christ, which is what the church actually is and He died and gave His life for it and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it. I know you don’t mean you hate Christians but not all churches are apostate my friend.

If you went to a restaurant and got a bad meal, you would not rule out ever going to restaurants again would you sir? See my point. The church is full of sinners and imperfect people but Christ died for these imperfect people. I do agree we shouldn’t go to a church that does not believe the Bible is inerrant and that Jesus lived a sinless life and died to save us and where the Cross of Christ and the glory of Jesus is the purpose of the church but there are churches out there that do exist like this. I would pray that the church I am undershepherd to is teaching the centrality of the cross, Christ, and the Bible is completely true. Just saying. Thank you.

BigBob July 8, 2013 at 12:38 am

Hello,
Please forgive me if I am off the mark by a lot I am just learning about Christianity and have a few questions.
The biggest question I have is that I was married in a church by a female pastor 12 years ago and after reading more and more of the bible I am starting to understand that she had no right (by the bible) to perform this ceremony….is that correct?
And as such what bearing does that have on my marriage? Does it make it illegitimate in the eyes of our Lord?
Should I renew my vows?
Would this resolve the issue?
How can the church have ordained pastors who are female if it is not allowed by the bible?
I am slightly disillusioned by the fact that churches after 2000 years have not perfected their line of work….saving people by the Lord’s workings.
Sorry if this is way off the mark as I said I am still learning and this really disturbed me when I started to come to the conclusion my marriage was consecrated in sin……
Thank you for any advice you may be able to give in advance,
God Bless

Jack Wellman July 9, 2013 at 9:00 pm

Hello Big Bob. I am so sorry I am responding so late to this important comment and question. A person can perform a legal marriage by having a marriage license and even though this woman is not qualified to be an ordained minister or pastor of a church, according to the Bible, you married your wife in front of legal witnesses, signed the marriage certificate and did so, above all witnesses, before God.

As to how the church can have such errors after 2,000 years? This has only happened within the last 100 years and so this seems to be part of the watering down of the Word of God and we are sacrificing truth on the alter of cultural relevancy or political correctness. You must remember that the church is composed of humans and Jesus is the Head of the.

You are legally married, and all will give an account before Christ at the judgment seat someday. I would rather cling to what I know the Bible teaches and not on what we believe is right which is subjective and thereby, subject to error. The Bible teaches what is objective truth. That is what I want to stand on and if I am wrong, I at least know that I did only what the Bible says and how wrong can that be?

BigBob July 12, 2013 at 3:39 am

Thank you so much Jack for putting my heart at ease. As I said I am still learning and as I delve deeper I am realizing that society has perverted a lot of the bible and its teachings.
I understand that the whole religion isn’t to blame it is just frustrating sometimes 🙂
Thank you again for your assistance with this.
God Bless

Jack Wellman July 12, 2013 at 12:15 pm

Thank you sir. I clearly understand what you said and again, thank you…and you are so right…our Bible studies must be biblically sound so thank you for your keen insight.

Jamie July 8, 2013 at 3:12 am

Jack, I totally agree with you that God words in the bible that clearly stated that God doesn’t allow woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but to remain quite. (1 Tim. 2:12-14).

My question is what will you do if you are a member in a Church for 5 years and realised that recently the Pastor and your Church that doesn’t practise and agree (so call interpret differently that what the scriptures mean) that woman still can preach & teach man (including leading man).
I mean we (four of us as a members of the Church) had met up with our pastor to share our understanding that we got from this scriptures including 1 Cor 14 but he doesn’t see what we see. Which he still think that God can use anyone (woman) to preach to everyone by quoting us some scriptures such as Act Romans 16:1-4. And he also cannot show us any scriptures that support what he says that woman can teach man (lead man) in the public worship such as Church Service on Sunday. I understand his background where his bible seminary & the whole congregation had been practise this & they didn’t see any serious wrong on it which concern/ related to salvation issue. My husband & I are in the dilemma whether to find another Church or to stay on. FYI we are having woman pastor in our Church which was appointed recently and once in awhile (once a month/ twice a month) she will be preaching to whole Church on Sunday Service worship.

I really love the words that you share to us here without twisting the meaning of it. Thanks for sharing with us the word of God (the truth) and esp. in this matter not many Christian can accept it. (God forbid women to lead man & teach man in the Church) even many pastors of many Churches.

Appreciate your advice very much. Meantime, we are still praying to God and searching for his guidance what is best for us.

Jack Wellman July 9, 2013 at 9:19 pm

Jamie…please forgive me for such a late response. Let me tell you about the present day seminaries so that you will know that just because a person attends a seminary, they will get it right. Only 42% of seminary professors (yes, professors!) believe that the Bible is without error. One of the seminaries I attended at graduate level courses is one of the most conservative there is…Southern California Seminary (Dr. David Jeremiah’s seminary) and they are 100% certain on this fact that the Bible nowhere teaches that woman can be ordained pastors and lead a church. Roman’s 16:1-4 has nothing to do with a woman preacher to be able to preach or be ordained. Phoebe is, church history and the vast majority of Bible scholars know is the bearer of the book of Romans to the church. In other words, she brought the letter with her for Paul. Phoebe is called a “servant”, not a pastor or preacher and the Greek word is “diakonos” which fits with her helping Paul and being a servant to help him deliver this book of Romans to the church at Rome. Even if Paul were calling her or designating her a deacon, he would have surely called her a “deaconess” instead as there were deaconess in the church but they attended to needs (which is what deacon means….a servant) and deacons were to serve and not to preach.

As for the church, if you find error or anything contrary to what the Bible strictly forbids then you are always going to have uneasy feelings or doubts about this church (which you have already expressed here) and so I would find another, more bibilcally conservative church.

Listen to these Bible teachers, scholars, and pastors, who teach that women should not be ordained:

Dr. David Jeremiah, J. Vernon McGee (now with the Lord), John MacArthur, James McDonald, Irwin Lutzer (Moody Church), R.C. Sproul (Reformation Seminary President), Adrian Rogers (with the Lord today), Chip Ingram, Dr. Tony Evans, Jack Graham….and many more that I can’t fit into this comment. Can all these men and their own seminaries be wrong…or can the Bible be? No way. Find another church. Pray to God to help you. Thank you for standing firm on the Word of God. I pray to God that such men and women as your two would find OUR church, the one I am under-shepherd of, who are so eager to be obedient to the Word of God.

Robert July 8, 2013 at 3:48 pm

Each time I see a revival of the discussion (debate) concerning women in ministry, I am reminded of the old adage, “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity”. Some who claim that women can’t be pastors/leaders in the church accuse those who disagree with them of blatantly ignoring biblical authority. However, there are a great many Christians, who love the Lord and His Word just as much as any other Christian. Both groups believe that they have an understanding of these passages and are each trying to live according to what they believe the Bible to be saying. (Everyone who believes it is permissible for a woman to be a pastor is not a liberal feminist, I assure you).

I would never encourage anyone to leave a church on the basis of this doctrine alone. No one is saved or lost on the basis of how they see this doctrine. And it is not a question of biblical authority either; many people who believe that women can be pastors love the Bible and bow to its authority also, they simply believe that the verses concerning women’s roles were written for a particular instance and a particular time.

This doctrine, along with creation, the end times, spiritual gifts, filling/baptism of the Holy Spirit, and a host of other doctrines is found among a group of doctrines on which true, loving, honest Christians do not always agree. Does that mean that one group is right and one wrong? If so, which one?
Does that mean that the groups have no common ground? Of course not. Our common ground is found in Christ Jesus.

It breaks my heart to see Christians, who otherwise share in God’s glory through faith in Jesus Christ, allowing their beliefs concerning doctrines which can be interpreted in several ways, cause division or confusion within the body of Christ, the church. It is not wrong to hold a certain belief if it allowed that one may possibly be wrong about that held belief (now the Gospel essentials are just that…essential. This doctrine, by itself, is not an essential belief).

There are many who think the Bible clearly teaches women should not be pastor/teachers…they base this belief on the Bible. There are others who believe that women can be pastor/teachers…they base their belief on the Bible, also. Only God has a full understanding of the Bible, we understand in part. This is the reason that there are many denominations, it is also the reason that the Christian community is still discussing (debating) all the aforementioned doctrinal issues. And we will be discussing them until Jesus comes back and we find out we were all wrong (that was an attempt at humor, by the way).

My prayer is that, as Christians, we do not allow the non-essential beliefs we hold to either cause division or to cause other believers, who do not believe as we do, to feel that they are inferior Christians in any way. That is why the old adage continues to come up in conversation after conversation, “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity”.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men July 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm

Still, one view is right and one view is wrong. All are not wrong. I cannot dictate who is right and who is wrong but one of these views is wrong, regardless of old adages. I can love people on both sides of this issue but one is clearly wrong. Some folk believe same sex marriage is ok and they are getting what they believe from the Bible, some believe same sex marriage is wrong and they get what they believe from the Bible but again one is wrong. As time moves toward the end more and more issues are being declared non essential. I am sure these issues will not be resolved until Jesus comes but I for one do not want to be found luke warm. I will not lower the standard I believe to be clearly stated in the Word just to try and please everyone, I tried that and you wind up making every one upset. While I agree with the idea that this one doctrine is not essential to salvation, it is essential to righteous living, as is the whole of scripture, if it is non essential why did God see fit to put in in scripture and then say All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God , and [is] profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness. Old adages can be misleading. So in love I must say I disagree with your view and realize no one reading this will be convinced by either of us so I ask myself why bother? The only thing I can come up with is I am zealous for what I perceive to be true and know you are too, so I reckon the debate will continue, peace to you brother.

Robert July 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm

This is makes my point. I know your are passionate for the Lord and hold certain views different from mine, although we both support our views biblically. And I am passionate about God’s truth also. Still, we both love God and seek to do His will as we perceive the Bible’s guidance. My point was simply that, unlike same sex unions, murder, and drunkenness, whether or not women should be pastors can be supported biblically on both sides. I simply do not believe it is where the bulk of our efforts should be focused. And I do see your point also. God bless you, brother and peace to you too.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

MD July 13, 2013 at 11:30 am

However, there seems to be added pressure for those who believe that women should not hold these positions based on scripture. Its basically shut up or be labeled as a biggot or chauvinistic. Unlike you Robert, I don’t see many running to defend us. Rather, I see them pushing and calling us the same names. There would be no debate if we just give in and keep our mouths shut just like with any other biblical issue. That’s exactly what they want. Constantly things are introduced to the “Church” which in the worlds eyes is politically correct. Right is right and wrong is wrong. May the Good Lord bring us into his order.

Robert July 14, 2013 at 9:40 am

MD,
The name calling and labeling is wrong on either side. It is a childish and non-productive tactic and usually, as you point out, simply puts a stop to any meaningful dialogue. I don’t know yet whether I think women should or should not be pastors/leaders in the church, but I do think that there is room for discussion without being labeled someone who disbelieves the Bible.
I wholly agree with you in that we must not allow anti-biblical teachings into the church simply because they are politically correct (whatever that is). Surely no one is saying that women’s roles in the church and whether or not homosexuality is a sin are both equally ambiguous. However, on many teachings in the Bible (none of the essentials for salvation) there is room for more than one interpretation. (If this were not so, Paul would not have said to let none judge us as to the days or the feast, etc. If we all agreed on every detail of the Bible he wouldn’t have needed to say this). Doctrines such as the length of the days of creation, whether the Sabbath should be observed today, tongues, the end times, once saved-always saved, etc. have more than one way of being interpreted. I have no right to say that my interpretation is the only right one and anyone who believes differently is sinning. It is repeatedly said, when discussing this issue, that there is only one correct interpretation (as if simply by saying this makes the person’s point). I fully agree, there is only one correct interpretation. However, every Bible believing Christian does not agree on what that correct interpretation is. The question is therefore; do we stand on our possibly incorrect interpretation and label those who disagree with us as “sinners” and “people who do not submit to the authority of the Bible”? Or do we admit that there are certain things in the Bible that we do not have complete understanding about? I mean, think of how long the discussion between Calvinists and Arminians has been going on. Anyway, I just spent my two cents, so I’ll stop here. God bless you, MD.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jamie July 11, 2013 at 11:47 pm

Jack, thank you so much for your reply. I’m so happy after reading your message. What you had mentioned was just what we discussed about (with my husband).

I was quite surprise what you shared about..Only 42% of seminary professors (yes, professors!) believe that the Bible is without error. Means 58% of seminary professors believe that the Bible is with error !!! I was quite dissapointed with this.

I have other question to ask, whether woman pastor/evangelist/deacon/sister can lead holy communion?
Since Holy communion is not teaching ..?

I pray to God that such men and women as your two would find OUR church, the one I am under-shepherd of, who are so eager to be obedient to the Word of God. My answer ==>yes we want to be obedient to the Word of God. We are searching for YOUR CHURCH now in Malaysia. I totally agree with you ==> I would rather cling to what I know the Bible teaches and not on what we believe is right which is subjective and thereby, subject to error. I’m so glad to know you bro and having found this website. Continue the good work and share the word of God.

I look forward to your reply soon.

Jack Wellman July 14, 2013 at 1:39 pm

Thank you Jamie for your question. Yes, I too was dissapointed about the many professors who claim to be teaching the Word of God and yet many believe it is not the Word of God. If they don’t believe God’s Word is without error, then I believe they should find another job.

As for women giving out the sacraments of Holy Communion, I would believe that the pastor or someone ordained should alone be doing these as the earliest church historians wrote that this was their practice. Surely if this was wrong, Paul, the Apostle John, John’s disciple Polycarp and Polycarp’s disciple, Justin Martyr would have allowed only what was practiced and taught in the Word of God. Since the Word does not say that a woman is qualified for pastoral positions, we should assume that neither should they be giving out the sacraments as this is also done with reading out the Scriptures as Paul did when he showed the proper way to do so. I say this at the risk of and perhaps even likelihood of being persecuted or chastised for saying so but upon the Word of God I can only stand firm and if I am wrong for that, I believe God will be merciful to me on that day when He rewards each man and woman for their works done on earth…whether they are hay, wood, or stubble or….precious gold and jewels where moth nor rust can corrupt.

Matthew July 24, 2013 at 1:11 am

Mr. Wellman, I just wanted to say thank you so much for letting God use you in such a powerful way. God bless you sir for your patience and also for your willingness to stand up for the Gospel. To be able to withstand the force of persecution, humbling yourself continually shows great character and the true humility of Christ Jesus. God has used your articles to give me confirmation more than once. You sir are truly a man after Gods own heart. Your devotion to His word shows it. Again , I just wanted to say thank you and speak what I know is lead by truth and love..

Lord Jesus I pray and ask that you lead us all into your truth let us not be lead by human wisdom or by the worlds standards or views. Lord I ask that you break the scales off of the peoples eyes , soften their hardened hearts, and tune everyone’s ears to be able to hear your voice , IN JESUS CHRIST MIGHTY NAME AMEN!

I have to confess before I say anything in regards to this post that I am a new creation in Christ Jesus saved by faith, repentance, and Gods grace. All glory goes to Him…

Its grieves me to see how many people are trying to put worldly standards into Gods church based off of human wisdom and not standing firm on the truth that comes from scripture. Which should be the fundamental building block to everyone’s life.

1 Timothy 4:12-16: 12 Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit,[a] in faith, in purity. 13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. 15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. 16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Why are Gods churches now becoming “Middle class America”? Filled with greed, deceit, false doctrines, non-biblical belief systems and false religions?

ARE WE IN TIMES OF THE GREAT FALLING AWAY OF THE CHURCHES? 2 Thessalonians 2 -Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Let the scriptures speak to the people of the world. Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

How can we believe certain scriptures are defined by our own beliefs? GODS WORD MEANS ONE THING, EXACTLY WHAT IT IS SAYS THE TRUTH! For one to say one women should peach is calling God a Liar.

Deut. 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

How can you defend taking away the fullness of what the apostle Paul wrote? Or try to add or take away anything from any other scriptures in the bible? You cant and should not.

Proverbs 30:5-6 “Every word of God is pure; he is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

God is showing every reader right now how real and true everything in the bible is, HIS WORD CAME TO LIFE IN THIS DISCUSSION IN THIS VERY POST ;
1 Cor. 4:6 “that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

Psalms 119: 160 “The entirety of Your word is truth.”

Please stop compromising yourselves and Gods word.

I defended Scripture with scripture , not scripture with personal beliefs.

DO NOT DECEIVE your selves nor be deceived by others.

Jack Wellman July 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm

Thank you Matthew. I so needed your encouragement because I have been somewhat “beat up” on this article but we must put what the Word of God says about the contemporary culture or political correctness. In fact, we are, as you so rightly said, deceiving ourselves into thinking that we can dilute or water-down the truth to fit our beliefs but when we do that we are changing the truth of God’s Word into a corruptible, me-ololgy of our own and really, creating a god in our own image instead of the God of the Bible.

Robert July 24, 2013 at 12:43 pm

All,
My intention was never to cause conflict, merely to recognize that all Bible-believing Christians do not see this passage in the same context.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman July 24, 2013 at 12:48 pm

Thank you Robert. Knowing you I agree and know you that you are not trying to or intending to cause conflict my friend. I am not sure which passage you are referring to but I am, if erring, doing so I pray and with intent, on what I see the Bible says. Sometimes conflict is unavoidable my friend and what I am trying to do is to rely on what the Bible has revealed and not try to be ambiguous on what it does not say.

Anyway, I hope all is well with you and your family. I know that my neighbors south of us, in Oklahoma, have had such a hard year and praying for you and yours as well as you home state brother.

Giancarlo July 24, 2013 at 3:34 pm

Jack i have been debating with this particular scripture myself. I am an assistant youth pastor and cannot escape the scripture entailing that women cannot teach as pastors. As jeremiah said, our heart is deceitful above all things. We try to reason against scripture,but,inevitably fail and eventually feel convicted.
My best friend (female) wants to become a worship pastor and she is the one God has put in my life to be with.(Confirmed by the holy spirit) I say best friend because she is not my wife.
My problem is, how would i break this truth down to her? Our church is filled with women pastors, though it is a very good church, and most believers possess the fruits of the spirit accordingly.
Would she then have to become a worship leader? or is leader subject to authority?

Young and humble in the faith,

-Giancarlo

Jack Wellman July 24, 2013 at 3:50 pm

Giancarlo, thank you so much my friend. Martin Luther started the Great Reformation and even when faced with death, he stated, “Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.” That is what I feel so strongly as well. Your best friend stated something that troubles me. That she said that being a worship pastor was “Confirmed by the Holy Spirit” but truly, the Holy Spirit never, ever goes against the written Word of God, the Bible. This is what is called experiential evidence but it stands outside of the revealed truth of the very God-breathed Scripture and experience is never the base of truth for as you rightly said, the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things. On the day we start putting our experience by saying it was confirmed by the Holy Spirit and this experience is not supported by Scripture, we get on a slippery slope and err. Personally, I would find another church and I know this seems harsh but if they are willing to compromise on this, what other truths will be next. One of the most important tests is obedience to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, being the Author of the Word of God, would not obviously speak to a person to do something that is contrary to the Word of God or not revealed in the Word of God. I doubt very much that they would accept this and so you must make a personal choice. Be comfortable where you are or do what your conscience is obviously telling you. You can break it to her based upon what you read in the Bible, i.e., what is in this Scripture-filled article. If you can ask her what Bible verse or Scriptures support this, then perhaps she can tell us otherwise. Until then, and I have done an exhaustive search of the Word, then you must accept that she is wrong. God can not lie. The Word is perfect. Experience never is. May God give you the right ways to tell her. Correcting others is a loving thing to do…it is not being judgmental.

Candace July 31, 2013 at 8:05 am

I tried to read through the articles to find the answer to my question before posting it but there are so many, so forgive me if you’ve already answered this question.
Is it OK for women to teach children or other women?
I dont believe women should pastor or be deacons, but what about teaching Sunday school for children or teens of both boys and girls or Wednesday nights or a women’s Bible study?
During a Sunday school for adults with a male teacher is it OK for a woman to comment and take part in discussion?

Jack Wellman July 31, 2013 at 9:20 am

Thank you Candace. I believe teaching Sunday school is fine…or leading a women’s Bible study is wonderful. I also believe that women can add much to an adult Sunday school lesson, so you can and I believe you should take part in these Sunday school lessons.

I believe Paul was primarily speaking about pastoral duties in the church. Certainly women make fine teachers for children…in my opinion, even better ones than men for children. My wife has been a 4th grade teacher for 30 years and she is the best teacher in the entire school….but yes, to women teaching children in Sunday school, leading a women’s Bible study, participating and adding to the discussion in Sunday school lessons….

Thank you for your sense of humility and humble nature, by which I can just tell from your comment.

Candace July 31, 2013 at 11:03 am

Thank you for answering me so promptly. I am a children’s teacher in my church and I love it I feel blessed that the Lord has allowed me to teach my (church) kids as well as my own, in doing so I have grown so much as a Christian. I didn’t know Jesus as my savior until I was 23 and couldn’t imagine my life without sharing Jesus with these children and their mothers. It is comforting to know that I haven’t been going against the word of God.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2013 at 2:49 pm

Indeed Candice, I discern that you are striving to be obedient to the Word of God and I thank God for women of faith like you. The church needs such women as you and I am truly humbled knowing that there are men and women who first ask, what does the Bible say and only then proceed. God has a special crown for women like you and godly mothers may have the greatest rewards of all in the Kingdom.

Pastor Victoria Alston August 6, 2013 at 5:32 am

I am going to go by the fact that there is neither male nor female in Christ, and if the women keep silent in church then where would the church be. Truly you have better knowledge of the word of God then that, and better interpretation. I chose to think that when He said go ye into all the world and preach the gospel he gave me permission then to be in charge if need be. Plus I think more rightly dividing the word need to be in place when it come to women in the gospel or the bible all together. Get back with me when you really consult God as to how to rightly divide his Word!!

John September 30, 2013 at 10:50 pm

Dear Victoria,
Did you not read the article the author written based on the scripture? There is neither male nor female to receive salvation but the authority in the church is given to men to Pastor the flock.
If the son who is part of trinity when came to earth was willing to listen to father and do his will why does the christian women have so many issues to listen to his word.
If somebody misconstrue the scripture then it’s an issue but the bible about this topic is point blank at all places.

The role of career women should not be confused with the role of leadership in church and I assume that the Pastor is not considered as a profession but a ministerial calling. If you look it as a secular career yah you can start your own church and write your own bible and be the 21st century Christ.

Praying that Jesus open your eyes and mind. Sorry If I m harsh.

Peace.

Jack Wellman October 1, 2013 at 11:16 am

I agree with John Mrs. Alston….please show me where in the Bible that a woman can be qualified to be a pastor and then you can “get back to me and ask God how to rightly divide the Word of God.” I rely and trust the Bible because human reasoning’s are fallible and subject to error but the Word of God is never so. You are not supposed to interpret the Bible to fit your meaning or desires but let the Word speak for itself. It is not me you disagree with but the Word of God and I pray you are not teaching this from behind the pulpit.

phishing4men October 2, 2013 at 9:06 am

and if the women keep silent in church then where would the church be
So you only believe the Word that allows you to “think” you should be a pastor. “get back with us when you consult God as how to rightly divide His Word” Your use of neither male nor female in Christ surely is not dividing it straight. It is obvious by your remarks you believe God “needs” you to help Him out. God is complete in Himself and is in need of no one and nothing. Folks who think they are necessary for God to do anything are arrogant and misguided. Love you tho…

Sonia November 1, 2013 at 7:53 pm

Great article Pastor! I believe, you did your best with the help of the Holy Spirit and this article is eye-opening for me and I must say a big thank you for sharing. In my place of worship, we have both male and female pastors but I will confront my pastors based on this. The Word of God is Powerful and I’m very concerned with Revelation 22: 18-19. From biblical view, are woman allowed to teach children in the church? I am a teacher in children department and I want to please God with / in everything I do by His Grace. Please, reply and I would appreciate if you did.
Many thanks.

Jack Wellman November 1, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Thank you so much Sonia. I see no biblical reason why women should not teach children in Sunday school at all.

I would speak privately first off with the Senior Pastor so as to not embarrass anyone but this Scripture, Rev 22:18-19 is very important and is actually mentioned in the Old Testament too but with an equally foreboding warning in Duet 4:2 and Duet 12:32. God takes this very, very seriously and we can not water down the truth, rationalize what we do in church, or use extra-biblical beliefs to justify what we do. If they can show you in the Bible where God says that women can be pastors or deacons or elders, but above all, pastors, I would love to see this.

Thank you for your desire to obey the Word of God and to not compromise on what God says in His Word and not what mankind thinks. Let me know how it goes. Maybe you can refer them to this article. I admire your zealousness for obedience and the truth and that is rare these days and so may God richly bless you for that and teach those children…nothing in the Bible prohibits you from doing so.

Sonia November 1, 2013 at 8:45 pm

Many thanks Pastor and God bless you richly. You are indeed an asset to this generation.

Jack Wellman November 1, 2013 at 8:50 pm

Thank you Sonia…very kind words indeed, however I must say that all glory goes to God Himself for I know nothing except that which has been given to me and what do I have or what did I learn except that it was first given to me.

Lorna Lacey November 2, 2013 at 3:57 pm

Hello, Bless you for your enduring patience and honesty. I just would like you to help me respond to the question I get when asked what is my thought on the verse in the Bible that says in regards to women preaching, “the Bible says that in the end times, all will be called to preach”. I dont believe in women pastors and I wont go to a church that has them, and the above statement about endtimes and all called to preach is told to me alot. Thank you for your time,
Lorna

Jack Wellman November 2, 2013 at 5:27 pm

Thank you Mrs. or Ms. Lacey for your comment and statement. For one thing, the verse “in the end times, all will be called to preach” could not be found. In my exhaustive research in writing this I say not one woman priest in the Old Testament. I saw not one pastor in the New Testament among many (Timothy, Titus, etc.) and the only Scriptures about the qualifications were for men. This is not my opinion so I see we both agree on what you said in trying to answer that question about “in the end times, all will be called to preach” so maybe you can ask them for a Bible verse or chapter and verse and book for I can’t find it. There is no verse that says “all will be called to preach.” This is not in the Bible at all. You can tell them that.

I did find on Scripture about the end times that Peter quotes part of Joel but this seems to apply to the day of Pentecost and to after Pentecost too that” it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. “And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls” (Joel 2:28-32) Not that it says about men and women, “Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit” which happened but nothing here about preaching to churches or being a pastor for churches regarding women.

Paul say the days like today coming when he wrote to Timothy about the watering down or leaving of the sound doctrine of the Bible in 2 Tim 4:3-4 saying “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” That is the day of the present church of today. We have sacrificed biblical truth on the altar of cultural relevance and political correctness. ‘

Point these out to those who question about women pastors and if they can give me one scripture to prove this I will agree but there are at least 24 total verses proclaiming ( in this article for example and more) only men can be ordained and qualified as pastors, deacons, and elders but I do believe that deaconesses are biblical for what that’s worth and I think it’s worth a lot. Thank you for standing firm on the truth when few dare to do this in these last days.

John Molokwu November 5, 2013 at 8:36 pm

Once again you have done justice to yet another Masterpiece article! This time the topic is a very controversial one. In Nigeria, such cases are very prevalent since most of our Pastors ordains their spouse as Pastors and even Reverend or Prophetess so as to complete the circle of having a General Overseer (Daddy) and wife as Pastor or (Mama).

It is very common to see women becoming owners of big churches and having male pastors serving under them. Pastor Jack, this article is an eye opener. Truth be told, it is clearly written in the Bible but, today this truth has been perverted to suit the purpose of the church authorities and affiliate bodies in the ministry. I believe strongly in equal right between men and women but, the Bible specifically educated us about the role of the man and the woman in the plan of God Almighty. Nobody and alter what the Bible has written for the Bible said, we cannot add nor remove from the Word of God.

My thoughts on this topic: let us emulate the principle of Jesus Christ. He shows compassion and understanding for He knows our thoughts and actions. Mary Magdalene was opportune to be the first human to see Jesus after His resurrection. Since God is the creator of each day, this means it was part of God’s design for Mary Magdalene to witness such a miraculous event in the history of mankind. Though it is not written that women can occupy leading offices in the ministry but, there is definitely a salient role God Almighty must have placed in the lives of women to play in the course of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We, both man and woman are the cause of this problem facing us in the Christendom. Delegation of duties over time has empowered women into seeking to occupy Pastoral positions, even Reverend or Bishop offices. This is not included in God’s plan as well detailed and analyzed in your article.

Do I have to stop attending church because a woman is pasturing, No! Rather I will seek for God’s divine direction on how to tackle such matter using Bible sound doctrinal teachings of Jesus Christ to discuss this topic with such female Pastor. Her response is worth knowing. Kindly share your thoughts Pastor Jack. God bless your ministry Sir!!!

Jack Wellman November 5, 2013 at 10:07 pm

Thank you so much Mr. Molokwu for your gracious words. I see you desire truth and grace and Jesus said that is whom God is seeking to worship Him which is what He told the woman at the well. Notice He said grace AND truth and if you are in a church that has a woman pastor, this is not biblical and where there is error in church leadership, there could error in doctrine. Obviously there is already for not one verse in ALL the Bible shows that women can be ordained and become pastors of a church. Yes, they can share the gospel but that is everyone’s duty, right? i.e. Matt 28:18-20. Acts 1:8.

Also, NO MAN or NO WOMAN is reverend. I had a guy call me that once and ask to never call me that again. Reverend is what God alone is for the word “reverend” means, literally, “terrible” or as to fear, and that is a title of God. So those who call themselves reverend, in my opinion and in the Bible, are wrong. The only place that someone is called reverend or revered is God for HE is holy and revered and reverend and sinless. They have perverted the truth as Paul predicted that in the end times they would. Paul say the days like today coming when he wrote to Timothy about the watering down or leaving of the sound doctrine of the Bible in 2 Tim 4:3-4 saying “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” That is the day of the present church of today. We have sacrificed biblical truth on the altar of cultural relevance and political correctness.

Mr. Molokwu, I certainly respect your desire to know the truth and to obey God and so ask this female pastor to show you even ONE verse that supports women can be pastors and I can show her 24 plus or more that only men can be. In my exhaustive research in writing this I say not one woman priest in the Old Testament. I saw not one pastor in the New Testament among many (Timothy, Titus, etc.) and the only Scriptures about the qualifications were for men. This is not my opinion so I see we both agree on what you said. Point these out to those who question about women pastors and if they can give me one scripture to prove this I will agree but there are at least 24 total verses proclaiming ( in this article for example and more) only men can be ordained and qualified as pastors, deacons, and elders.

Again, ask this female pastor to show you even ONE verse that supports women can be pastors and I will recant or let Martin Luther’s words be mine and yours:

Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.

ytwong November 6, 2013 at 7:21 am

Pastor Wellman,

I have been following this site for a length of time. The debates each party based on will never be compromised. One side seems to hold on the exact words of the Bible yet fail to interpret or explain some verses in different issues. Other believes preaching the gospel is Christians’ responsibilities despite of genders. I tried to examine the core of the debate and the consequences. Some are confused if they should leave the church with female pastors. Some ladies doubt if it is Biblical for them to teach children or women Bible studies in church. Some even question if the denominations with females pastors will lead the congregations to hell. Some tend to ask, “Is God sexual discriminating?”

As I notice, some of the terms or reasoning used are not totally clear to everybody. Pastor Wellman, the following questions deserve your explanations before you continue your debate.

“Pastor”: according to your understanding, is it a title or an ordained position/authority as leader in the church? If it is a title then anyone who finishes the study in the Bible College and writes the paper with good grade deserves it. There are ladies sitting in the same class with men, studying the same stuffs, writing the same tests. After the graduation, men can become pastors yet women cannot? You think this is fair? If your understanding of a “Pastor” means an ordained leader/authority in the church for man only, no argument! In that case, if you are the principle of the Bible College, will you upfront the women not to take the courses if they want to be the leader of the church or with an intention to preach the gospel effectively? Do you agree female professors teaching in Bible College then?
Are all issues addressing to all churches or different issues to different churches? If all issues are for all churches, why Christ addressed different issues to 7 churches instead of one as a whole? You never mentioned what were the real problems with the Church of Corinth that Paul had to write a letter to correct their wrong doings. You always stress the Pastor stuff and follow the Scripture word by word but on other issues, you don’t seem to emphasize the words. You often ask people to show you a verse that woman can be a pastor. However when did Paul say women could teach children and women? He just said woman was not allowed to teach and be quiet. He even said it was a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor.14:34-35; 1Tim.2:11-12) I wonder if you allow women to lead song services or pray during Sunday services, if they are allowed to pray, do you ask them to cover their heads. Also, based on your logic, if the Bible doesn’t specially mention it, it is wrong. But you advise other ladies to teach children Sunday school (it doesn’t have this term in the Bible neither) and Women Bible Studies. I can also ask you to show me a verse that woman can teach children Sunday school and women Bible studies.
When Paul said, “I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over man, but to be in silence.” The word ‘usury’ means to seize or hold the authority or position or office by force or illegal right. How about if a woman does everything a man does to obtain his pastoral degree, then why can she be a pastor? So, the title is not important, only if he or she is called by the Lord. Being called by the Lord is not something you and I can judge. It seems you try to limit God by His own Word (by your interpretation) what He can or cannot do. Not all Bible students have the hearts for the Lord. According to your understanding, all male students have the potential to be pastors yet none of the female students has that opportunity even she has the heart for the Lord. How sad!
Romans 16:1 called Phoebe a deaconess (there are many translations call her that, NIV for one, KJV calls her ‘the servant of the church’. Check it out.) I don’t know which translation you use. According to your understanding, the qualification of a deacon is just for man so those translations that call Phoebe a deaconess are wrong and should be condemned.
When I read the Bible, I read it as Living Word. “Who also hath made us (the church, I believe women are included) able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth live.” (2 Cor. 3:6) I apply it to the present situation if needed. We are not in the Church of Corinth. We are not facing the same problems they had. We do not know exactly what situation they were in when Paul wrote the epistle to them. It might be because of educational, cultural, religious or spiritual issue/issues that caused the problems and confusions. These I take them as advices of problem solving. For the instructions of the qualifications of a bishop and deacon to Timothy, I consider them as the guide lines. If we follow it to the T, then Paul was not qualified to be a bishop (pastor) because he had no wife and children.
The Bible were written in a male inclined society in both Old and New Testaments. So a lot of the writings were addressing to male gender, (no wonder you can find more than 24 verses to prove only men can be pastors. So can Mormons, they can quote verses to prove that only men can lead women to salvation) for examples, sons of God, dear brothers, brethren, die for your brethren, love your brothers, man shall not live by bread alone, God hath made man upright and many many more. Everyone knows that it does not mean females are excluded. If you insist in engendering ‘servant’ and ‘pastor’ (means leader of the church, shepherd) to be man only, then there is no point of debating.
In the Spiritual order of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Paul said, “…some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.” All these positions, I believe are not gender oriented because they are the gifts according to the Holy Spirit’s will. Nobody can deny there were prophetesses in both Old and New Testaments and it is obvious they were above the office of pastors and teachers. The main purposes are for perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body Christ. Who care if they are black or white, male or female, Chinese or American.
My point is, if a woman loves the Lord, she has the ability to lead the church in a Godly way and faithfully serve the Lord, let her do so for the glory of God, for the unity of the body of Christ. 1Cor.13-11&12 always remind me when dividing the Word. As I notice, people who go to the church with female Pastor usually don’t have the problem until you tell them so. How can you be sure it is not what God calls her to do? As one lady says, if God can cause a donkey to speak, why can’t He call a woman into His ministry? As in Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, He said to the Pharisees, “…if these (the praising of the multitude of the disciples) should hold their peace, the stone would immediately cry out.” (Luke 19:40)
God’s truth is so vast and unfathomable. I can only say at this stage, this is what I can understand. Sorry, if I offend you. I just want to share my thought. I know you love the Lord, so do I. My basic concern is to preach the gospel to lost souls. Whether woman can be a pastor or not is not an issue to me.
Final question: Are all female pastors living in sin-sin of disobedience?

Jack Wellman November 6, 2013 at 9:27 am

Thank you ytwong for your comment. If we are to interpret the Bible according to what you feel, like by what you said, “if a woman loves the Lord, she has the ability to lead the church in a Godly way” then you are putting your and other human feelings above what the Lord God commands. I would rather obey God than what a “woman” or man feels. Let me say that Jesus said that “If you love me you will keep my commands” and those commands are in the Bible. I believe that female pastors are rationalizing their “feelings” to be pastors because it is not biblical and if you are elevating your feelings and they are as well over what God says in the Bible, then you are sacrificing truth on the altar of human feelings and God is not pleased. You have not offended my me friend. Don’t worry.

Let me finish with this. What has more value? Your feelings (i.e. a woman’s love for the Lord) or God’s Word? You know the answer to that. Again, ask this female pastor to show you even ONE verse that supports women can be pastors and I will recant or let Martin Luther’s words be mine and yours:
Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.

Robert November 6, 2013 at 12:19 pm

It is a fact that Christians on both sides of this issue hold the Bible to be the authority on this, and many other, matters. The disagreements are not a matter of what the Bible ‘says’; rather, matter of interpretation. There are those who believe that the passages under discussion were written, not as a universal instruction, but to a specific church, or a specific situation amongst several churches, as ytwong mentioned. There are valid reasons for interpreting these passages in such light. There are others who believe that these instructions are for all Christians at all times, as Jack said. This is also a legitimate position to hold.

It must be remembered that both groups uphold the authority of the Bible when interpreting these passages. It is not true that simple human reasoning or gut feelings are behind either of these interpretations. Many, on both sides of the issue, have studied, prayed, and agonized over the exact interpretation of these sections of God’s Word. It is not that one side is faithful to God while the other side is not.

I have read closely this fine article (which holds that these passages are for all Christians at all times) and the comments that followed (from both viewpoints) and have come to the conclusion that Paul’s discourse in Romans 14 should be applied directly to this discussion, “One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s” (Romans 14:5-8 ESV).

My prayers are for the body of Christ, that we may know what is worth arguing over and what is not. May the Holy Spirit guide us as we seek to live as devoted followers of Jesus Christ.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men November 8, 2013 at 9:00 pm

I have read closely this fine article (which holds that these passages are for all Christians at all times) and the comments that followed (from both viewpoints) and have come to the conclusion that Paul’s discourse in Romans 14 should be applied directly to this discussion, “One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike.
The passage you quote has not one thing to do with the discussion on whether women should pastor or not. Since you have responded so often to this article and disagreed with it, I have trouble with your calling a “fine” article. I hear this type of thing so often from DC politicians when they disagree with one another, it smacks of being insincere. Just a polite way to offer your differing opinion later in your post. Robert, I do not understand why you do not even answer some of the questions on your own articles but are quick to offer your opinion on this authors articles. Why don’t you just write your own article on your beliefs concerning this topic instead of undermining this one. You very craftily insert in your last paragraph above that you do not feel this is worth discussing(your words–arguing over). Then why do you continue to log on with your argument?
“Many, on both sides of the issue, have studied, prayed, and agonized over the exact interpretation of these sections of God’s Word. It is not that one side is faithful to God while the other side is not.”
What is there to interpret?? When the Word is so very clear what is to interpret….the Word states women are not to teach men…I Tim 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
The qualifications for pastor/elder do not include women. But liberals have been trying to change God’s word since the Church was established. As you continue to add your view which you must know I strongly disagree with, you continue to add confusion. Again I suggest you write your own articles if you have a different view and let the author deal with this one. You might find a more liberal site to work with more suitable for your views.

Robert November 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm

Dear Phishing,
The reason I refer to Jack’s article as ‘fine’ is because it is. Just because I realize that there is more than one interpretation of these passages does not mean that his article is not well thought out and well written. Jack is a fine Christian man with strong principles and beliefs, you are mistaken in accusing me of falsely complimenting Jack merely so I can bash his views. But, I also forgive you.
You suggest I write an article of my own presenting my views. If I did write an article of my own stating my belief that the interpretation Jack put forward is not the only interpretation there is (I have stated this repeatedly in my comments, and it is the only point I tried to make), what do you think that would accomplish? It would simply be more of the same arguing that has been going on here since this article (fine article, by the way) came out. I will not be a part of any more of this type of discussion. When a discussion degenerates into criticizing someone’s motives, there is no reason to continue the discussion.
I will no longer comment on this article, or any comments directed at me. God bless each of you.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

ytwong November 6, 2013 at 12:38 pm

You didn’t answer most of my questions but pick on one sentence to defend yourself. How can you tell if a person is able to lead the church in a Godly way? Is it by your feeling or by his fruits? How do I know you love the Lord, by my feeling or by what I read from your articles or by the discernment of the Holy Spirit? Even we have some differences in understanding the Bible, we know one another well enough that we love the Lord because we are drinking the same Spirit. How do you elect your deacon in your church? Is it by his qualifications only or by his fruits and the leading of the Spirit through a lot of prayers? To tell if a person loves the Lord is not a feeling, it is an acknowledgment, it comes with discernment and discernment comes from the Word. When the Lord reward us it is not on how much we know and how strong we hold onto His Word. It will be music to my ears when I hear Him say, “WELL DONE, my love!”

Jack Wellman November 6, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Hello again ytwong. I did answer your question but you have ignored my appeal to produce proof of your belief from the Bible, which can’t be done by the way. You asked “How do you elect your deacon in your church?” We do it by the standards given in the Bible, or have you not read 1 Tim 3:8-13? Apparently you would rather have your feelings be your guide instead of the Word of God. God never lies and so we must and I must rely on the written word. You rely on “feelings” and “beliefs” and of such human arguments God says that the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things and who can know it?

Then you asked “How do I know you love the Lord, by my feeling or by what I read from your articles or by the discernment of the Holy Spirit?” Neither of these are correct. Jesus said that if you love me you will keep my word and my commands and you want love or feelings to guide your doctrine. I pray God sends you wisdom and that wisdom is found in the Bible and not in human feelings or beliefs. Now you are sincere I believe but a person can be sincere and be sincerely wrong. The Bible never is and that is my one and only source.





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