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Sheryl March 22, 2012 at 6:54 am

Great blogpost, as usual!

Jack Wellman March 22, 2012 at 2:19 pm

Thank you Sheryl. You are too kind indeed and thank you again for visiting us my friend. You truly are appreciated.

Raoul Duke March 23, 2012 at 8:46 pm

Hi Jack – great article. I have three questions:

1. You say that God blessed america because we supported Israel and because:
“The Bible was in every school in America. In the first universities, the Bible was studied and read, the Ten Commandments were in most establishments and in fact the first universities were actual seminaries as well. God therefore blessed this nation…”

But then you say we stopped doing those things that were the foundation of that blessing (described in your quote above) and we need to start doing them again. My question is did we lose God’s blessing as a result of having “kicked God out” as you say?

I am assuming the answer is yes (unless I have somehow misread your article). So isn’t it proper/correct to say that currently America does not have God’s blessing?

2. You write that one of the reasons the bible does not mention america is because it did not exist at the time the bible was written. Are you saying that God did not know America would exist and be around to support Israel as a friend and even play a critical role in actually creating the State of Israel after World War II? I have a hard time believing that God did not know America would be here at such a key moment for Israel and it would have been easy for him to mention that or include it as a strong and specific prophecy. Why do you think he did not do that?

3. Finally, you say that to get God’s blessing back America must, as a nation. You say we have to “come to repentance before God” and that we have to “confess our sins and repent as a nation.”

My question for you is this: Isn’t that actually impossible given that our founding fathers created this nation and under the written rules they made (specifically the 1st Amendment) the founders created a nation that ensured religious diversity regarding religions of any kind. As you know, our history and heritage is in part the story of an incredibly diverse collection of faiths and beliefs found among the American citizens. I think it is one of the key reasons people come to this country and become Americans. But the practical effect of that is that “as a nation” we do not all believe in the same God. As a result we will never be able to repent “as a nation” and so you seem to say then that America can never get God’s blessing for us as a nation. Am I reading this correctly?

On a side note – I did some studying on why we removed the bible from our public schools. It made no sense to me that once it was there that we would take it out. I assumed it was a result of pressure from secular non-christian citizens. What I found out surprised me. It turns out that it was actually Christians who wanted it removed from the schools because they could not agree on which version of the bible (and the related faith systems) should be what is used and taught in the schools. I believe it was the result of a massive effort by the Catholics to influence what was taught in the New York schools. The Catholics and Protestants could not agree (and then the Protestants could not agree among their various denominations) and so the “solution” was to simply remove it from the schools altogether. Not only is this in the history books, there was even a multi-part television series on public television some years back that documented the whole sordid affair. Really quite interesting.

Jack March 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm

Hello Raoul. Great, in-depth observations my friend. As to Question #1, I do not know to what full extent God has removed His blessing on this nation. A nation prospers according to His will but it seems, at least financially, that this blessing is gone.

Q#2 I believe that is what is called “God’s permissive will.” He allows things in this world to occur and can not possibly mention every nation or event that happened in the 4,500 to 5,000 or so history of Israel. Remember that prophecies revolve around Israel. Neither is China mentioned in the Old Testament prophecies, although some believe that the “Kings of the East” may be associated with them. Neither was Hitler and Nazi Germany nor the greatest world power up to the U.S. where it was said that “The sun never set on the British Empire” yet the Bible is silent about them. No one book, the Bible, could have possibly contained all the events that were to occur. We know that abortion is murder yet it is not mentioned in the Bible (save the commandments).

On Q#3 Nothing is impossible with God the Holy Spirit. I can not put God nor His power in a box and say “never” because even the least likely of all the apostles, Paul, from Saul, the greatest and fiercest persecutor of Christians who many thought would never convert became the greatest writer and apostle to the world in general, the Gentiles, writing most of the New Testament. Revival might seem impossible but with God, is anything to hard for Him?

It is not fair to say, I believe that Christians were to blame for getting the Bible out of the public schools. One man started this with a court case and Christians and Catholics do not seem to be the real culprits from my research from the U.S.Supreme Court cases in the last 60 years. The main cause was: Abington Township School District v. Schempp (consolidated with Murray v. Curlett), 374 U.S. 203 (1963),[1] was a United States Supreme Court case argued on February 27–28, 1963 and decided on June 17, 1963. In the case, the Court decided 8–1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp, and declared school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States to be unconstitutional.

1. Text of Abington Township School District v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963) is available from: Justia · Findlaw

Thank you Raoul. I will have to research that TV special. As for the history books, I would like to know which textbooks these are. History is one of my BA degrees and I don’t remember this. Thank you sir.

Raoul Duke March 24, 2012 at 3:04 pm

I just found it again – it was in the PBS series called “God in America” in the episode called “A New Eden.” You can get it on iTunes and I believe you can watch it online here: http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/view/. If you are a historian I would recommend the entire series to you as it is a fascinating look at the history of religion in America. Enjoy.

Jack March 24, 2012 at 3:35 pm

Raoul, I owe you an apology. I am so sorry. I see what you mean now. I will look more closely at what you sent me. I did check out some of it and yes, you are right, there is much religious division and infighting that ended up hurting their own cause. I will look deeper and more fully into this. Again, I am sorry. I just looked at the U.S. Supreme Court rulings which tend to make laws and I should have looked more closely at U.S. History. Thank you sir for your intelligent and in-depth look at this issue.

phishing4men August 31, 2012 at 5:38 pm

One should not expect to find truth on PBS as it is obvious they are among the ilk that are attempting to rewrite history. Could you tell me where you are coming from Raoul, as a born again believer in the finished work of Jesus Christ, a Roman Catholic, a skeptic, agnostic or what?
by grace alone

S Dwight Miller March 24, 2012 at 2:38 pm

Recently a high ranking Jewish Rabbi told a prominent Evangelical Pastor that the reason the Jews have flourished in America was because America had the purist form of Christianity.
Where is America in Bible Prophesy? We are not mentioned but it does not mean we will not have a role in the End Times. However, Daniel and Revelation keeps showing the dominant power in the End Times is the 4th Beast of Daniel, a revived Roman Empire.

Jack March 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm

You are so right my friend. Excellent point. I truly believe that America will be affected and play a role in end time events, as will all the world in one way or another. Great point sir. I wish I had included this statement of wisdom in my article. Thank you so much for adding this significant and important point.

Raoul Duke April 2, 2012 at 3:58 pm

But there is a problem with what you say here – as america does not have any single “form” of christianity. At last count there are at least 38,000 different christian sects – likely many of these are found in america. So, as you can easily see, statements about any form of american christianity are just nonsense.

Jack April 2, 2012 at 4:46 pm

Raoul, there is really no problem. There is the Universal Church that exists worldwide. Many different denominations do not mean many different religions. These are not “sects” as you say. Sects are:

A religious group with beliefs and practices at variance with those of the more established main groups
religious denomination and a small close-knit group with strongly held views that are sometimes regarded as extreme by the majority.

Sects are not mainstream Christianity that believe that Jesus is the Son of God and is also very God. Statements about “any form of American Christianity” are not non-sense. There is nothing American about Christianity. It is Jesus church and HE is the Head of this church, no nation is. There is one single form of Christianity that believes for example, Rom 10:9-13:

“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

This is what most churches believe…if they do not, they ARE a sect and not Christianity at all. Take out Christ and it is just “ianity.”

Chris Martel April 2, 2012 at 6:25 am

Read the book “The Harbinger” by Jonathan Cahn, it is an eye openeder. While the US is not mentioned in the prophecies, by all accounts in this book, we are under judgement, see Isaiah 9:10.

Jack April 2, 2012 at 2:49 pm

Thank you Chris for the recommendation. I will try to look it under the Isaiah 9:10 lens my friend. I do agree with a nation being under the judgment of God without being the name for God is no respecter of persons anymore than He is a nation. Thank you sir.

S Dwight Miller April 2, 2012 at 7:07 pm

Remember context, context, context. Isaiah 9:10 has frankly been ripped out of context. Isaiah 9:8-21 is about Israel and its arrogance. To apply Isaiah 9:10 to America is to ignore all the verses in that section. Its about Israel and nothing to do with America.
Now there are other verses that you can in context apply to America but definitely not this section.
Context context context!

Jack Wellman April 2, 2012 at 7:30 pm

Mr. Martel and Mr. Miller, after reviewing the entire chapter (which is always wise to do I believe) I do see where Mr. Martel is coming from and yes, this message was intended for Israel for a specific time and purpose. I can see how in a way that this discipline from God applies to any nation that is full of “pride and [has an] arrogance of heart” (v 9) so, as I said, God is no respecter of persons or nations and He would not do any less to a nation that exalts itself and forgets their God. Saying that, Mr. Miller, I believe what you said that there are other verses that can, in context, apply to America, yes. However I do believe parts of verse 9 can apply to America or any nation that is lifted up with pride and arrogance, just like He would deal with any person…but not to apply it specifically for America, that I agree Mr. Miller. There was no such nation at the time of course. Thank you sir.

phishing4men August 31, 2012 at 6:01 pm

Hi Chris, it might be helpful to gain another view of the Harbinger and one can be found at this site. Look at the end of the article and you will find many other articles dealing with this deception. God Speed
by grace alone

Chris Martel April 3, 2012 at 1:28 pm

Thank you Mr. Wellman for clarifying these issues. I am relatively new to the study of eschatology and I find it fascinating, now I have SOOO much more to worry about!! LOL!
Again, thank you

Jack April 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm

I thank you as well Mr. Martel. Truly a Nehemiah Prayer for this nation is about our only hope sir. May God continue to lead you hear and in your walk with Christ. I appreciate your grace-filled, kind words.

Jackie page October 9, 2016 at 1:09 pm

There is stuff I have read on the internet that alleges America is mystery babylon. But I am not a scholar….

Jared August 15, 2017 at 7:13 pm

America is in the Bible. Daniel 7:4 (July 4th?)

The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

King James Version (KJV)

Eagles wings is America, separated from our mother country, the lion, Great Britain.

No other explanation to this.

Tee January 25, 2018 at 1:55 pm

Do you you know sometimes what is killing the Christianity Faith is the Church Doctrines,

cogar March 11, 2018 at 10:16 pm

I believe in god who created all things. I believe in Jesus who died for my sins. For I am born in sin, and will sin, THRU Gods Grace I am saved. We lack prayer, fasting, and giving it all to God. I am not a highly educated Man, But I feel God is in my life every day and I seek him out constantly. Not a second goes by I’m asking God for guidance. I am blessed beyond anything worldly . May God Bless those who seek him. Amen

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