What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis

by Jack Wellman on April 28, 2011 · Print Print · Email Email

Many years ago I visited a church while out of town.  At the time I was unaware that it was a charismatic church.  When the church services started, it was quite clear that they believed in the gift of tongues.  I was urged to speak in tongues and to “give it up” to the Spirit.  I needed to speak in tongues to be “baptized with the Holy Ghost.“  As I prayed over this and pondered whether I should try and speak in tongues, nothing happened.  I even contemplated faking it.  I felt somewhat ostracized because I actually never did speak in tongues.  I was praying at the time that, “God, if you want me to speak in tongues, please enable me by the Spirit to do so.“  Nothing ever came out and I felt completely inadequate compared to the other believers who were speaking in tongues that I didn’t understand.  There were several speaking at the same time as they were dancing and jumping up and down. To me, it was a little frightening and confusing.

The tongues I heard that night were completely unintelligible and it was an exercise in futility for me to try and understand what was being said.  And no one was interpreting the tongues either which made it even worse.  The whole assembly, minus me, was in a near frenzy and they were completely lost in their actions.

I can remember reading about tongues in Old Testament times where foreign tongues were not a good sign for Israel at all (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 539).  Foreign tongues were usually a warning to the nation.  When I looked at the New Testament, what I found was that tongues are not a babbling of words, but that of a known language.  This language was intelligible to those who spoke that language and understood by them.

Speaking in Tongues in the New Testament

The first place that speaking in tongues occur in the New Testament was in Acts 2:1-4: “When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.”  The word tongues has a literal translation in the Greek of “languages”.  This means that the tongues that were being spoken were those of a known language.  The tongues were words with specific meaning and not just babbling.  This is clarified in Acts 2:7-11, “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

So those who heard these tongues or languages were languages that were known and that the believers may not have known how to speak.  That was a miracle but the miracle was not for the believers benefit but were a sign for the unbelievers (I Cor. 14:22).  These verses were a sign that God used to signify that the Gentiles were receiving salvation to those who did not believe (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 382).

So clearly, speaking in tongues in the New Testament church were tongues of known languages and not unknown languages or unintelligible sounds.  Since many in Judea were bilingual and some even trilingual, it’s not really that surprising that there were many languages being spoken (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 357).  They were praising God in different tongues or languages to give evidence for unbelievers that God was at work in more ethnic groups than just the Jews. This validated the fulfillment of Joel chapter two to the Jews as well (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).

Speaking in Tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Acts 10:44-46 also has a reference to tongues: “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.  The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues (literally, languages) and praising God.”  Notice that the Holy Spirit was poured out and they were not baptized into the Holy Spirit or received a baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers and not what some charismatic churches claim as the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  Nowhere in the New Testament is it written that they spoke in tongues and were baptized in the Holy Spirit.  For believers, the receiving of the Holy Spirit is a one time event and it is not a sign of being filled up by the Spirit or being baptized into the Holy Spirit.  It is precisely for the reason of validating God’s acceptance of the Gentiles to the Jews and this acceptance by God for all people was at a specific time in history (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).

Tongues: A Sign for Unbelievers

Biblical scholars agree that in Acts 19:1-7 and elsewhere that these verses clearly indicate that tongues were intended “to overcome unbelief” (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 409).  They were specifically for unbelievers and to validate Paul’s message and to overcome the listener’s unbelief (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408, 409).

Even at the risk of offending some, this reminds me of snake handlers.  Some churches take one text out of context and make it a pretext and sadly, the worship is more centered on the gift of tongues or the handling of snakes than it is with Christ being the center of worship.  Jesus Christ should always be the center of all worship services and never any gift since Paul tells us not to exalt in any gifts of the Spirit since they come from God anyway.

Taking Text out of Context

Here is a personal note on the gift of tongues and the twisting of scriptures.  Sadly, many denominations or churches do not take problematic scriptures and place them against all  the scriptures relating to a particular subject to discover the proper context to see whether it is biblically sound or not.  This is what is meant by “rightly dividing the Word of God” (II Tim 2:15) and “scripture is of no private interpretation” (II Pet. 1:2). A sound principle is that if there is a problematic scripture or verse; take all the other scriptures that relate to this subject and place them all against the one scripture or scriptures to bring clarity to the subject.  If we still can not decide its meaning, then this might be God’s prerogative alone to know about and we have no business trying to inject or infer meaning when God is not clear on the subject.  If God has not plainly revealed its meaning in scripture or it is not clarified by other scripture, then this is not revelation from God intended for us and should not be taken as such.  Revelation from men is highly questionable and not like the inerrant Word which is infallible.   If God had wanted us to fully understand it, He would have revealed it. Some things that are not clear must be for Him alone to know and we have no business trying to decode such enigmatic scriptures into a meaning that we were never intended to know in the first place.

It is apparent that there is sufficient evidence about tongues that they are clearly a sign for unbelievers, Jews or otherwise.  They are also a sign that God is at work.  The earliest church historians never mention that speaking in tongues continued to occur in the church after all the apostles were gone.  Speaking in tongues is a rather recent movement in the 19th century.  I speak Spanish and I feel that some people are gifted at learning other languages.  My former pastor picked up several African languages at the time he was on mission trips.  He had a gift for it.  But it was a known language.  I can speak in “other” tongues, like English, Spanish, and even some Greek but what sounds like gibberish to those who don’t know them, it is a known language.  But these are known languages and I am not just “letting myself go”.

I have been told that I have never been “filled by the Holy Spirit” or been “truly baptized into the Holy Spirit” unless I have spoken in tongues.   That is not biblical nor should someone feel less “spiritual” if they don’t speak in tongues.   By the way, tongues are the last gift mentioned of all the gifts of the Spirit and love is over and above all other things.  In my humble opinion, charismatic’s too often take it to the extreme and belittle those who do not speak in tongues and incorrectly associate their not being filled with the Spirit when this is actually a one-time event at the moment a believer receives the Holy Spirit at conversion.  You can not have any more of the Holy Spirit, nor can you have any less of Him.  You either have the Holy Spirit or you don’t.

Sources:

1.       John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, trans., The Bible Knowledge Commentary – New Testament.  (Colorado Springs, CO.: David C Cook, Publisher, 1984).



Share this post:  |  |  |  | Twitter

{ 841 comments… read them below or add one }

Kris December 2, 2013 at 2:15 am

Mr Cotton,

Isn’t it a joy to know that the Lord keeps us in his sight and along our way we are led to things that help us become more assured and strong in assurance of our faith.

I always marvel when I read the Word and I then seem to have a lot of things come along to confirm it from other believers or resources…the body has many members but one spirit and that spirit confirms to us that we are HIS !

I am thankful that you found some help in those videos . I was not raised RC but I have met many who have been and those who come out and become born again attest to the difficulties that those ‘raised’ in it find themselves …but the freedom from the WORD is just awesome …no matter what ‘ism’ we may have come through …it is useful to the Lord relating to others who may have encountered the same

At the bottom line is the Word is our ROCK and our Salvation so as we study it and put it on it will testify to us ..within us …of all things …true.

May the Lord continue to bless your walk Brother Cotton….I love your name …it is such a lovely attribute to my mind …soft and strong …tenacious and dependable …those who walk in the Lord will mount up like eagles wings ..they shall run and not be weary …and you remind me of this …..Hugs!

Reply

Mr A Cotton December 2, 2013 at 3:01 pm

I was really upset one night and I fell to my knees and asked God to help me.
The next night I was reading Jacks commentary,and I noticed you had answered has well to look at some videos. I clicked on the link.
I was watching the first one and I felt myself breaking down a little bit. They had been Catholics too. They were discussing all the Catholic traditions what they made up eg-Purgatory.
At last I could understand exactly what they were saying,and they said it`s very hard to come out of the Catholic Church.
From the first day I started school St Joeseph`s the church was built into the grounds it was ok until I went into the Senior`s the woman said you don`t know that you have been indoctrinated and controlled all those many years,and she said she still says things that are Catholic.
If you asked me the Fourth Commandment I would still say Honour thy Mother and Father.
That`s because the Catholic Church changed them,and In the bible God said you have not got to add anything or take anything away but they did.
The main one is that Jesus started this church that`s why they say that their religion is the right one. About St Peter being the rock. Jack can explain it easy.
I was in awe with what they were coming out with,and they made it a point that what they were saying was from the bible Gods word.
Thats why sometimes I feel lost off on this site because I have been on the wrong path all my life until God opened my eyes and I could see everything that was wrong and I was talking gibberish which I can`t remember a word now.
They also said there are 1.2 Billion Catholics that are following this path which they said was sad.
When they first started off they printed some flier`s but it has snowballed and they have got Catholics like me coming to them and are asking them what do we do.
It`s growing very rapidly.
So God answered my prayer through you Kris.
I am dumbstruck about this.
Thanks for being God`s messenger Kris.

Reply

Susie Arviso July 2, 2014 at 7:47 am

When I studied history in college, I learned the history of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is an arrogant, counterfeit Christian, world religious power, founded by the Roman Constantine (who’s conversion to Christianity was never authenticated) a little over 300 A.D., has undergone changes, alterations, modifications, evolving itself to make itself more people-friendly and has a bloody history of bullying, stealing, ruling, rape and pillaging, wars and murder, and “earning” salvation through works. This religious power has dominated countries; calling the shots thriughout its duration. Study history. There is nothing Christlike or scripturally sound about this religion.
At one point, they sold documents to people that guaranteed they would go to Heaven, in exchange for money. In fact, this religious power operates on tradition and whatever the Pope says, rather than adhering to scripture.
The church is set up with Roman flare and is riddled with rites and un-scripturally based doctrines. In fact, much of its doctrines are completely opposite of what the scriptures say, such as praying to dead people, using Mary as a mediator (Jesus’ position). Jesus even commented about not using repetitious prayer which is exactly what they do!
It is filled with bling and idols, relics and paganistic symbols. They’ve dominated the world over the years, both tyrannically and now under the umbrella of progressive secularism. Baptizing infants into the Catholic Church is to seal their salvation, when the truth is that salvation is a choice the individual must seek on their own.The Pope’s word is the same as God’s according to this religion, and they call their priests “father”, when Jesus Himself said to “CALL NO MAN FATHER”.
They refer to Mary as the “Mother of God” when she was merely the human vessel who was asked to carry the Savior. (God has no mother). They also believe that Mary was sinless and Holy, just like Jesus. They determine & dictate who become saints (and then pray to them), when the scriptures clearIy refer to born-again followers as the saints. And now they have hooked up with Muslim and other religions to join hands and campaign for “world peace.” There will be NO peace for humanity until Jesus returns to fulfill His plans and purposes for mankind. Mankind has proven that he cannot get along, throughout recorded history.
Many Catholics have no idea about the history of this devilish religion they’re in, and the more scholarly ones don’t care … because to them, it’s sacred to be Catholic.This religion is highly romanticized; appealing to those who like to feel spiritual and have it their way.
In other words they are brainwashed and would defend it to the
point of death. The scriptures tell us that Satan appears as an angel of light; benevolent. Yet, he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, using mock “Christianity” to deceive the multitudes.

And now? … Vatican makes history: Pope allows Islamic prayers, Koran readings
For the first time in Vatican history, the pope allowed for the reading of Islamic prayers and Korean readings from the Catholic facility, Google it.

Reply

Mr Anthony Cotton July 2, 2014 at 2:23 pm

I read your email and I fully agree with you.
I was a Catholic until about 3 years ago something very profound happened to me,and this lead me to this sight.
I was banned off Answers.com because I said their were murders in the Vatican. I told him if you read the Italian newspaper you would find out,but he wouldn`t have it.
For a start St Peter was not the first Pope his title was an “Apostle”,and this title was given to him by Jesus,and to me they are lowering his title the same has the other 12.
St Peter gave the title of the Bishop of Rome to St Linus,or you could say the first Pope.
The title “Pope” came from St Siricius the 38 th Pope who had the name “Papa” means Pope,so that`s how they were all called Pope.
The real head of the church was called the Black Pope,and his cronies the Jes`uits who were very powerful.
The present Pope has just excommunicated the Mafia from the church.
He must be a very brave Pope or ignorant because the last Pope who had dealings with the Mafia suddenly died.
The Vatican Bank is the 8th destination for laundering money in the world it has laundered over $55 Billion of Italian money.
Pope Borgia was the one that first set up the start of the Mafia,and his name is used has a by word for evil.
The doctrine of the Catholic Church has just been made up has they went along.
In the Bible Jesus said “That no man can forgive sins” the Catholic Church can.
God said in the Bible about the Ten Commandments “That nothing shall be taken away or added.
The Catholic can change them so that they can worship idols. You are right about the word Farther it`s in the Bible the same has Mary is not the mother of God. I could go on and on,but I know some good Catholics who don`t always agree with the Pope,and a great many of them are dodging land mines of the Catholic Church which is good.
They are all not like sheep.
I knew nothing about been born again until I came on this site.
Jack has taught me things that were completely alien to me,but how right he was.
I look in the bible now for the answers,or if I am troubled I come here and ask Jack,or I Google it.

Reply

Charlie Costner December 21, 2013 at 3:22 pm

Brother Wellman, I have read your commenary on water baptism and agreed 100%. I find myself in total agreement again after reading your commentary on the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tongues. Well done! We need more chuncks off this same old block that you came from!!

Reply

Jack Wellman December 21, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Thank you Mr. Costner. I do wish we had more godly, discerning men like you…even in the church I am under-shepherd of. May God richly bless you for your encouragement sir.

Reply

Mr Anthony Cotton July 2, 2014 at 2:37 pm

The post by Charlie Costner,and your answer caught my eye,and I am troubled,because I was Baptized into the Catholic Church.
Will I have to get Baptized again has a born again Christian.
I have just thought about it when I saw the posts,and I agree with what you say.

Reply

Jack Wellman July 2, 2014 at 5:30 pm

Anthony, I think you are fine. We are saved when we repent and trust in Christ and then we should once saved, get baptized but baptism never saved anyone or the thief on the cross would have been condemned. You can get baptized again, that is fine, but you are not saved by it. You are born again already and no second or third birth is necessary my brother. I hope I have given you peace of mind.

Reply

Mr Anthony Cotton July 3, 2014 at 1:58 pm

Thanks Jack for your quick reply.
I was very troubled by it,and that`s all I thought about till I received your email.
Boy was I relieved!
Yes it totally gave me a peace of mind.
I always think about the man on the cross who was saved seconds away from his death,and about the sort of life he must have lead.
Jesus heard what he said to the other man on the cross,and has you know he turned to Jesus and asked him to remember him I think.
Jesus looked into the man`s heart,and said from this day you will be in paradise with me.
Boy I wished I was that man on the cross.
Thanks again Jack for your words of wisdom. Anthony.

PAUL December 26, 2013 at 5:25 pm

Dear Pastor. I am a Pastor also, son of a historical church Pastor. Read the entire Bible by age 9. Prayed, ‘God, there is this Book and my church tradition; I prefer this Book’. I was told as a child that the Baptism of the Holly Spirit and the Gift of Tongues was of the Devil. But, when I was a Reverend at age 24 I received this wonderful gift. No emotions, as I had asked. I was alone, walking down a street, about 2 p.m. when, all of a sudden, I began to speak a wonderful new language. It has become my prayer language. I have been speaking it now for the past 30 years. Every time I don’t know what to say to God in one of the three languages I speak, I will speak in other tongues. My spirit is edified. I usually complete the prayer time in a earthly not angelic language. Thank you. God bless.

Reply

Bree January 25, 2014 at 8:54 am

“Nowhere in the New Testament is it written that they spoke in tongues and were baptized in the Holy Spirit.”

Brother, please see Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5 and Acts 11:16.

Satan fights the knowledge of the baptism, or inundation, of the Holy Spirit, because the prayer language thereby given by Jesus allows us to cause so much damage to Satan’s machinations.

“You either have the Holy Spirit or you don’t.”

All believers “have” the Holy Spirit, but only those believers who ask will receive the special infilling spoken of in the above verses.

I would encourage everyone to ask the Lord for this special, powerful gift. It must be received by faith, just as your salvation was.

Mr. Wellman, the church you visited did not take the time to explain receiving the gift to you, yet they expected you to operate in it. It sounds like this particular group was out of order.

Just as too often Christianity and thus Jesus is judged amiss by those who observe the Messiah’s followers misbehaving, so too those who have received the infilling of the Holy Spirit can embarrass the rest of the Body of Christ. “MY people are destroyed by lack of knowledge” [emphasis mine] (Hos. 4:6).

Following Jesus is a continuous process of growth. God bless you, and all of us, in that journey.

Reply

Mr A Cotton January 25, 2014 at 11:35 am

The bible does say in the New Testament that they spoke in tongues.
Acts 2:2-4 Acts 2:1-13, 1 Corinthians 14:2
This is the work of the Holy Spirit,and when God opened my eyes I spoke in tongues but it was gibberish that I could not understand. I can`t remember a thing about it.
This does not say that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation. It`s a gift from the Holy Spirit.

Reply

Jack Wellman January 25, 2014 at 11:51 am

So true Anthony…if speaking in tongues was necessary to be saved then there are millions who were not saved and our tongues most important work is to praise God and tell others of the Christ Who died for them.

Reply

Mr A Cotton January 26, 2014 at 11:02 am

Yes you are quite right Jack.
The Apostles were afraid to come out of a locked room because Jesus was dead,and they were used to Jesus giving them confidence in what they did.
Then the Holy Spirit came into the room and it his said that a flame rested on each of the apostles head this gave them the power to come out and spread the word of God.In the name of God.
It proves that they had the Holy Spirit in them because they all had a Martyrs death apart from John who died naturally,and they completed their mission
I found a church not far from me it is called the Independent Bethany Memorial Methodist Church.
What do you think Jack about a Methodist Church is it ok or not?

Reply

Jack Wellman January 26, 2014 at 12:44 pm

I totally agree with Hester. Only after you hear what is taught will you know. If it is cross-centered, Christ-elevating, Bible-preaching could I ever suggest you attend there but it is certainly worth the effort. There are sound Methodist churches just as there are unsound ones and with any denomination…it depends on what is the focus. It should be Jesus Christ, glorifying Him, preaching straight from the Bible, and upholding it as without error. Let me know how it turns out Anthony. Thanks Hester…good advice.

Reply

Hester January 26, 2014 at 12:39 pm

Mr Cotton no one can tell you whether a church “is ok or not”. I would depend on many things and that is why we are each one called to watch! and be alert for the devil prowls around to see who he can destroy and devour. You need to know the Word of God and be a good Berean and study the Word to show yourself approved. No one can tell you whether a church (organization) is ok or not. You go and make sure what you hear is in line with the Word of God.

Reply

Mr A Cotton January 29, 2014 at 10:48 am

I spoke to the hospital chaplain about this problem,and he was very good.
He listened to me exactly what I wanted,and he understood perfectly well about the bible.
I am just waiting till he finds a contact to come out to my house like a layperson to find out how to go about finding out about a bible teaching church.
He replied at the end don`t you worry about it.

Reply

Jack Wellman January 29, 2014 at 10:59 am

I too am encouraged by this layperson. He is truly a God-send Anthony. Let me know how your search for a Bible-believing church turns out friend.

Reply

Kris January 29, 2014 at 1:25 pm

Mr.Cotton,

I would agree that discerning what a Church is comprised of in terms of teaching and fellowship is challenging in this day where false teachers and doctrines that please the flesh abound.

I have not been a ‘church hopper’ as some might like to accuse neither have I sought to find the ‘perfect church’ as indeed the body is made up of many wounded and “in progress ‘ in terms of variety of need, maturity and knowledge among the congregation. As one man put it , to seek a church where everyone is strong and healthy because it is church is like going into a chemo ward and saying , what are all you sick people doing here!

Church is very much like a hospital where we are to gather to minister to one another and share what GOD has taught us as we study to show ourselves approved OF GOD …rightly dividing the word of Truth.

Many presume to take up the pulpit as a ‘vocation’ or a ‘job’ …for a ‘price’ or pay…to teach the Word of GOD is a huge responsibility that comes along with a CALLING …an ordination from the LORD not man.

Getting a liscense that says a person is now a preacher is really not indicative of their being called.

Also all believers are ‘called’ or ‘commanded’ to study and to speak what GOD will supply to them through their study and consuming of His Word and then living out what He brings to mind on all subjects that are pertaining to life and godliness.

I do not know a lot but over the years in my service to the body and search for like minded and like hearted believers I have been in many churches . For me it was a matter of finding not a church without people in need or to be ‘fed’ entirely by the pulpit but to find where the Word of GOD is taught without additives or subtractions.

When I was brand new I did not realize that when there was a ‘check’ in my spirit and scripture from my own reading would arise in contrast or confirmation to what was being taught or practiced was an ‘alert’ about something not right …I continued there for the sake of my feeling that I would grow and I could serve as a member of the body and that no ‘body ‘ of believers was perfect.

Indeed we know this BUT to allow for this I also stayed too long in fellowship in places where false teaching and doctrine was being slowly fed to people who did not know it , did not recognize it even as many WERE studying to try to investigate if what was taught was indeed what scripture said.

The unlearned or immature in faith do not know what they do not know and many have taken advantage of this .

The fellowship where experiences and feelings are predominant or one person is focused and lauded even as they claim Jesus …is something to suspect and be circumspect about. There may be a sense that everyone is just being swept along with their love for the Lord while other forces are at work through the comraderie and unity but it is being directed away from sound doctrine.

I say this not to deter you or add to your concern but to consult with someone who is ordained by man who encourages you to “just rely upon them”…and some person that THEY will select to ‘help’ you choose a church’ might be worthy of caution.

People who have risen to a place of trust are not always sound in their own doctrine. Success among the worldly institutions does not follow that they are teaching biblical truth …especially with the rise and popularity of new age teachings and occult teachings cloaked in scripture taken out of context.

The only way I know of for anyone to not be deceived is to study the scripture and ask the Lord to supply the knowledge and wisdom to identify what is right in any situation or in any person.

This does not mean we become paranoid or afraid to enter into a fellowship but we may often tell by the WORDS used among them what they based their faith upon.

I have searched daily the Word of GOD and had a lengthy time examining the things I accepted as a young christian many of which proved not only to be twists of the truth of scripture…taken out of context and be the respect for teachers whole congregations were bit by bit hearing mixtures of what is eastern mysticism, man pleasing practices and then the pressure to go along or be identified as an ‘unbeliever’ or worse.

For some time I walked with the Lord only and asked him to ‘bring me ‘ fellowship. This was not the best way but as we moved a lot it was often how I ended up . Visiting many churches …finding many where I was warmly welcomed UNTIL I started to share what I was reading and asking questions …canned answers that were not quite what the scriptures said …or focus upon the social activities…the rejection of anything ‘negative’ …of which scripture WILL seem ‘negative’ to those who are of the flesh….led me to seek elsewhere .

I have found FEW among some churches who were in love with the Word and were able to testify to a lifetime of dealing with the way the walk after the Lord unfolds and many kinds of convictions and oppositions as well as comfirmations were part of their walk.

Seeking a place to ‘feel good’ or even to ‘feel the spirit’ is not what I would recommend. Also I would not want to stay in a church that leans upon the flesh in a form of humanistic ‘brotherhood’ .

The scripture exhorts the believer to ‘lean not unto your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge HIM and HE will direct your path’

I know the urge that you have to find a church …but in the meantime continue in the Word daily …ask the Lord to teach you what you need to know to help you discern …if you do find yourself among those who are more “OF the world ‘ than ‘of the Lord” who are focused upon self esteem, ‘centering’ or many of the ways systems that distract or discard the study and walk after the Lord and all that He says …not just sections of the scripture exclusively …like some that only spend time in the epistles and have discarded the OT and even the Gospels as ‘only for our learning and not TO believers’ …you may see this as a ‘learning experience’ of what is NOT profitable for doctrine ,reproof and correction which is “instruction in righteousness’ but a ‘lesson’ in what is not OF God.

All you do as you study and lean upon the Lord and His Word WILL provide you with knowledge but much of what is learned at the table of error is also mixed with practice of it …and may seep into your walk ….Just do not be afraid to say ‘no , not for me’ and move on .

The Lord will lead you and complete that work He has begun in you AS YOU CONTINUE ….IN HIS WORD …as HE has told us …THEN …we will be HIS disciples INDEED.

People mean well …people get involved in groups they love for many reasons ..and often because they believe they were ‘led ‘ by the ‘Lord’ when perhaps they have not examined WHY they like the church they attend…That is another function of the sword of the spirit ..it REVEALS for us our OWN motives and intentions that we may not be aware of …as it ‘cuts assunder the thoughts and intentions of the heart.’

This is so we may examine ourselves as we go along. God wants to GROW us up …some of the ‘side trips’ and ‘ditches’ may be part of this but the truth is what we must DO when the Word comes to mind and show the contrast to us .

Getting close and having affection with other believers is a delight and joy to those who love the Lord ….at one point I was enthusiastic to trust ANYONE who claimed the name of Jesus Christ …and as I walked along and continued …some places offered so much ‘service’ to the various things that they were ‘doing for the Lord’ there was little time for study of the Word …that is if we were going to sleep at all!

I do not doubt the sincerity of many who get into these kinds of situations ….but I do see that if we KEEP GOD FIRST and His ways….as HE has told us to …study ..seeking first HIS Kingdom and HIS righteousness…HE will provide us with instruction FIRST through HIS Word ..and we will thus become equipped with HIS worldview , thinking , mind …which will shed the light of His view upon all we hear and are brought to consider.

WHO we choose to walk with in our lifespan journey following HIM is very important….consider and remember ‘evil companions corrupt good morals’ is a wise exhortation …yet God is gracious and watches over us as we love Him ….devoted to seeking His provided words .

We are free to attend and go about enjoying and interacting …but we are also cautioned to not accept to readily the outward appearances of people , places and things…but to ‘judge righteousness’ ….that is to go to place GOD has told us IS “instruction in righteousness…’ His “God breathed word’ 2 Tim 3:16.

I think the devil knows that the new believer or one who has not spent a lot of time learning from the Lord in the WORD is excited to “DO ” something to serve GOD …I see many ‘ministries ‘ that take advantage of this urge to get out there and ‘win some for the Lord’ …this is a worthy desire.

But they are also all too willing to fill people up with their own brand of doctrine …which is to be one of the things we need so badly to examine…to ‘see if it is so’

As I have been going along I have found there is no ‘fast track’ to ‘success’ in the walk …it is a growing process and the aim is to become one who lays down his life for the sake of the GOSPEL of JEsus Christ.

That is at some point we do not ‘attend’ church to ‘be fed’ as some will expect but to ‘offer what we have been given ‘ through His work IN US .

I enjoy a good teaching , encouragement and various ways the the Word taught is received and then demonstrated in it’s effect upon the hearers.

But the way a new or unlearned believer may perceive fellowship is different than how GOD works into the faithful student of the Word who hears and then seeks to learn how to live by it .

It is part of the way the Word works in those who love Him and love His word …it grows them up and grows through the WORD IN them.

Giving in ‘service’ only in the many ways many churches are instructing people but without a full urgency and exhortation for each person to grow up in their private learning from the Lord is often times leaving people immature and ‘as children in understanding’ …thus they become man directed rather than heeding Jesus AS LORD …leader, teacher of all those things HE wants to guide us into all truth by the ‘anointing ‘ [the Word which is HIS spirit'] in the inner man.

How can a man avoid being deceived ? By having the WORD in his own mind ..being taught by the Lord in his daily private relationship with Jesus Christ.

As a young college student I was daily in the word …night and day once I came to know Him and began my walk …soon after about a year of simply enjoying everyone who claimed to love Him I found I was easily impressed by people who were actually not shy about making claims as to their ‘calling’ and soon we see in retrospect how the false teachers ..even sincere but deceived ones themselves became more the focus .

False ministries and cults abounded ..as some who were a little older and who followed false teachings themselves grew to see the young wave of Jesus Freaks as great ‘resources’ for their ‘visions’ many of whom claimed GOD directly spoke to them and such …we see many factions of this kind of thing now ..and we also see in scripture that JESUS WARNED about the last days when this would be an overreaching scourge .

The preaching to gain ‘converts’ sounds like a good and godly thing…but the means by which many have gone about it ..has resulted in much of the WORLD to take residence in the church….mixture …seeker ‘friendly’ methods and enticements and it has not stopped with the 60’s and 70’s.

Now the various gnostic approaches to faith have entered into churches….”contemplative”, “emergent’ and all kinds of occult practices are being accepted and flaunted as the “higher criticism’ taught to those who seek a ‘fast track’ to ‘experiencing GOD ‘ and becoming ‘someone’ …an’ evolved’ christian…all ‘forms of godliness’ but ‘denying the power thereof’

The ‘power’ of the Lord is received through submitting to His command to seek HIM first and to submit to HIS Word ..all of it …not just parts or things redefined by the ‘new’ wave’ of believers.

This is a very important truth to consider when one is lonely and wants fellowship …but is unsure of where to go.

Places where Jesus is just ONE topic and other ‘methods’ or ‘techniques’ are offered and encouraged , taught and practiced ..elevating some above others….be aware ..

Many Christians who have come out of New Age isms….Occult isms to be born of Christ Jesus have seen this going on and are warning …and I personally will include myself in this …I worked in a place that put this junk into the culture …It was a learning time wherein as I see things coming into practice in churches I attest that it is NOT OF the LORD and NOT found in scripture.

I offer you the exhortation to seek the WORD …and if you might be willing to read what those who have come out of the cults …out of the New Age …out of various other religions posing as Christian which may help you realize the ways that it is subtly appearing in teachings even among churches who in the past once followed the Biblical doctrines.

Lighthouse Trails offers a lot of articles by people who have been there and now write to expose the practices and people who are mainstream now in their popularity among believers.

It is INDEED subtle and I personally believe that since I did come through it is worthy for me to at least offer what I have found to equip people with evidences of WHY this information is helpful. Spending YEARS in something that we did not realize was false …is not great ..it may seem a waste but GOD does not waste anything.

Whatever we may have come through HE will make use of to teach us further as we have the Word sown into our hearts..HE will put all of those things in view of the Word’s perspective ..for us to further be equipped to confirm that His WORD is the only truth and it is to be our only rule for doctrine , faith and practice .

HE is capable and willing …to teach us through His word…I have been slowly learning to trust what His word is when it comes to mind in the midst of a decision …it was not ‘just me ‘ …and those things which did not agree with some teacher or group …that ARE His word ..and agree with all scripture are HIS TRUTH …not just ‘a truth’ as many might attach to their ‘relativistic’ view.

I guess what I am trying to say is do not be afraid to change churches …or to move on …to disagree respectfully with whomever …if they are turned from wanting to hear the scriptures …and not willing to seek out for themselves they may be unlearned, immature but if they love the Lord there should be an attitude of ‘I’ll go study ‘ and THEN THEY ACTUALLY DO.

There should not be a sense of ‘desperation’ or ‘pressure’ to attend their group or join ….or a pressure to give them money.

I think I may have stated many things that are obvious, but I felt that it might be useful for you to be exhorted and not become discouraged as you seek a fellowship where JESUS really IS the focus of all things.

As with all relationships there is wisdom in observing what people DO not just what they SAY …as Jesus said of those who claimed to love Him” Why do you call me Lord , Lord and do not what I say ‘ and ‘their lips draweth nigh to me but their hearts are far from me’

How does one’s heart change to be near to Jesus Christ? The WORD is sown in my heart that I might not sin against you ‘ is one thing we see helpful for us to walk in .

ALso ‘out of the abundance of the heart …the mouth speaks’

What is the topic of conversation most prominent in the fellowship? This does not mean other things might not be discussed but there is a certain consistancy among lovers of the Lord when they gather …one reason is I think that if one is sharing the Word daily among others in our daily life in the world …being among believers who love GOd and His word is a refreshing place where the word is not fought or rejected….we enjoy discussing things we have studied…seen or testify of things God has done in all kinds of ways as we walk along and it is rejoiced in …accepted.

Out in the world believers obey the Lord and find few who rejoice in our sharing ..but when we come together in the body we expect to ‘rest’ and enjoy each others tales of victory of the Word throughout the week…while having coffee or refreshments after a teaching there is a focus upon sharing whatever it may have inspired …or we may seek to encourage and comfort those who have had a rough week…battered about by the world which is more and more ‘violently’ opposing believers.

So …the sweet savor of the sacrificial lives lived to glorify the Lord is what you might expect…not always found in some fellowships which talk does not just include other topics but few if any discussion around the things of GOD …

You will know …just keep in the Word …for our loyalty is TO HIM….as well as our desire to share what HE has worked in our walk with others….

THose who love the Lord will identify the spirit of GOD through your own loving Him …it is not a warm fuzzy FEELING but the WORD is FIRST and affection for HIM that is shared that bring about peace.

The world seeks to make compromises of the TRUTH to have peace with the WORLD.

Compromise is the name of the game in our culture…toward unity …but that is enmity with God.

Peace that Jesus offers to us …passes understanding ..it is NOT peace with the WORLD but peace WITH GOD ..which actually causes more disruption with those OF the WORLD.

Selah…”Consider these words”

May the Lord guide you as you seek Him first and He will ‘add to the church daily such as are being saved’

Reply

joseph karanja February 16, 2014 at 4:21 am

surely you have not said all truth about tongues…you have relied on few sciptures to conclude that tongues are for unbelivers as sign..i dont have any degree in biblical..but have you not read what paul said,he spoke in tongues more than all,,dont forbid tongues speeking..coz we speak mystery to our God…the mind does not profit when we speek in tongues..so was paul speeking another peoples language more than those people..let me say this is a language of the spirit….and i have been in a ministry where interpretation is done…but its not a must coz many times we worship or inercede and God understands……….so you make me fear even to be a theologian coz you are learned and you teach your mind not of the spirit.is it coz you dont speak in tongues…….you can recieve by faith…note (you can explode in tongues or grow from few words that sound like note tongues but by faith you continue)the greatest hinderance to praying in tongues is our mind…thus paul said it profits nothing.

Reply

Cat February 16, 2014 at 9:07 pm

Joseph…Speaking in tongues must always be interpreted when it happens in a public/group setting…Acts 14:28. In fact, we must take the subject of tongues in context as to when it appears in the bible and the timeline of the church. Most Christians really strive to understand how to take the bible in context which is why it is important to have a minister with an understanding of theology. On the subject of tongues, Acts was referring to its use and rules in the early church. Those rules were…no more than a couple of people speaking at a time, it must be interpreted or they are to remain silent, they must speak in turns, and they must not out of control (writhing/thrashing around screaming gibberish as tongues was a known language which is why it could be interpreted). The author points out that God is not an author of confusion…Acts 14:27-33. In fact, Acts 14:34-36 actually says woman are not allowed to speak in church at all. This gives us an ideal of the time frame in which this was written. It also tells us that if woman could not speak, then woman were forbidden to use tongues in church. Verse 37 says that these are the commandment of the Lord when it comes to using tongues. It also says in verses 19-20 that preoccupation with tongues is an indication of spiritual childishness. Verse 22 says that tongues are a sign for the unbeliever, not the believer. In fact, the bible says that tongues are a signs gift and a gift for prophesy. We all know that all prophesy ended with the book of Revelations, with it we are to know what is to come and have been called already to find our faith and salvation in preparation for Christ return and the end of days. The need for signs also ended once the church was established. Finally, Acts 13:1-2 tell us that if we have not love, then having the gifts of tongues, prophesy, or even enough faith to move mountains, mean nothing! We are told very clearly in this chapter that love is the most important gift we have as Christians. Verse 8 says that Love never fails, ” but whether there are prophesies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.” Verse 9 says, “For we know in part and we prophesy in part.” Verse 10 says, But when that is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.” Lets put away our childishness and stop looking toward tongues as a gift to be sought after but instead strive for all to obtain the gift of love for God, Christ, and every single living being, even those who have wronged us, or are sinners. For the greatest way to show our love for Christ is to reflect his love for even those who hated him!

God’s peace and blessings to all…Cat

Reply

Cat February 16, 2014 at 9:16 pm

P.s. Even in the days of the early church, we are told in Acts that not everyone will have the same spiritual gifts…not everyone will heal, teach, preach, prophesy, or tongues. It is very clear that just wanting a gift and praying for it does not mean we will ever get that gift. Tongues was never a gift received by having faith, no matter how strong. Like all gifts from God, he decides who get what based upon what is needed.

Reply

Cat February 16, 2014 at 9:23 pm

P.s.s. Also, yes, tongues was used to preach to new people in new lands. The apostles were not able to speak every language and so tongues had a purpose. They could speak and those gathering could understand them in whatever their native tongue was! It was a known language and therefore it was interpretable.

Reply

Paul Huggins February 17, 2014 at 4:39 am

Dear Sister Cat,
just a few words to thank you for your wonderfully put Biblical discription of Tongues, I have long believed just what you have writen from my own studies, yes I did once speak in gibberish, but realised that you just can not translate gibberish, I’m sad to say that this speaking is widely missused in the Church today, thank you, stand firm and push on sister, you are a blessing, Paul:-)x

Reply

Cat February 17, 2014 at 6:27 pm

Thank you Paul…I can’t take any credit as it was Pastor Jack and a dear friend Jeannie who have influenced me and helped me to understand this subject even more. It is one that many ministers are afraid to address in our churches today because of the controversy it involves and the division it can cause. Sadly, this means that for many Christians that all they know about the subject comes from the mostly New age non-demoninational churches which promote it as a sign of salvation, etc. Even with the teaching of my friends above, I understand that we should always cross check what we are told/taught with the bible, for God will let our heart recognize the truth if we are open and do not let our own personnel ego’s get in the way.

As for my friend, she is one who claims to have had this experience once. However, it was a private one time thing which would fall under more of a blessing than a gift. For her it was a time when she had a heavy heart and couldn’t express what was in it to God. She said she knew it was the Holy Spirit interceeding on her behalf. She has never claimed to have the gift of tongues. She has also does not generally tell people about it, as it was a private thing between her, the Holy Spirit, and God. She shared it with me because I had come to her with questions on that subject.

None of us can judge what happens to another in private prayer but that is the point…As the bible says, we are to pray in private our prayers, not seeking recognition for them. When something happens in private, that would be more of a blessing than a gift of the Spirit. Gifts of the Spirit were given to bless the whole body of Christ, not the individual. We can not pray to be given gifts, or that type of a blessing…For they are given by God to whom and when he sees fit, not because we wish to have them. The bible is clear that public use of Tongues had only two purposes which have past…prophesy and as a signs gift for unbelievers, period!

None of us can know what is in somebody elses heart. We are not supposed to know the details of their private conversations with God. There is a reason we are instructed to pray in privately and therefore I can’t speak on things which are private. However, the things that are done in public and taught as doctrine within our churches but do not line up with biblical teaching, those are the things we have a duty to clarify and correct in the benefit of all who are within the Body of Christ Church.

God Bless…Cat

Reply

Cat February 17, 2014 at 6:47 pm

P.s. We are given our instructions to pray in Matthew. Matt. 6:5-8 Talks about praying in secret and not in public to be seen, or bowing to do as others do, such as praying in vein repetition.

Reply

Paul Huggins February 18, 2014 at 2:15 pm

I totaly agree Cat, today there was in my email inbox a post from a kind gentleman, I wont mention his name, He said we ‘I presume that ment you and I should read Acts 2 again, I did, it says that The Holy spirit came in the day of pentecost, there was a rushing wind, then appeared to them devided tongues as of fire and one sat apon each of them, they were all filled with the Holy spirit and began to speak in OTHER tongues, as the spirit gave them unterance. ok I got that, so scripture tells us that they all spoke in other tongues, OK fine, we know that tongues is translated ‘language’, so then, they all spoke in a known language that needed to be understood by the learned people that were there that day to hear and understand the gospel, quite simply, so they could all undersatnd it, Good’ they understood it so powerfully that Acts 2 goes on to say that about 3.000 were saved or added to the Church that day, so then, can we agree that tongues is a translation for know language which can be understood, and that when also spoken in other parts of scripture, that tongues(a language) needed a translator,…OK, now if i go to a meeting and listen to someone talking gibberish ie. da ga yaa shuka mamba goo goo ga ga rappa yukumbe ratasha which sounds like and is a very confused gibberish indeed, ‘as is writen God is NOT a God of confusion’ how can such glossalalia be translated? Please can some body explain as it is quite beyond me, Im not here to argue you in to heaven sir, as so called charismatic tongues is not worth the arguement and I wouldn’t want to waste yours or anybody elses time, lets just get our own individule relationships right with God first and foremost, then all these things shall be added to you. Matt 6:33 Dear Lord God bless us all with love and wisdom in Jesus name, Amen and Amen! Thank you all glory be to God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul Huggins February 18, 2014 at 2:20 pm

I totaly agree Cat, today there was in my email inbox a post from a kind gentleman, I wont mention his name, He said we ‘I presume that ment you and I should read Acts 2 again, I did, it says that The Holy spirit came in the day of pentecost, there was a rushing wind, then appeared to them devided tongues as of fire and one sat apon each of them, they were all filled with the Holy spirit and began to speak in OTHER tongues, as the spirit gave them unterance. ok I got that, so scripture tells us that they all spoke in other tongues, OK fine, we know that tongues is translated ‘language’, so then, they all spoke in a known language that needed to be understood by the learned people that were there that day to hear and understand the gospel, quite simply, so they could all undersatnd it, Good’ they understood it so powerfully that Acts 2 goes on to say that about 3.000 were saved or added to the Church that day, so then, can we agree that tongues is a translation for know language which can be understood, and that when also spoken in other parts of scripture, that tongues(a language) needed a translator,…OK, now if i go to a meeting and listen to someone talking gibberish ie. da ga yaa shuka mamba goo goo ga ga rappa yukumbe ratasha which sounds like and is a very confused gibberish indeed, ‘as is writen God is NOT a God of confusion’ how can such glossalalia be translated? Please can some body explain as it is quite beyond me, Im not here to argue you in to heaven sir, as so called charismatic tongues is not worth the arguement and I wouldn’t want to waste yours or anybody elses time, lets just get our own individule relationships right with God first and foremost, then all these things shall be added to you. Matt 6:33 Dear Lord God bless us all with love and wisdom in Jesus name, Amen and Amen! Thank you, all glory be to God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul Huggins February 18, 2014 at 2:24 pm

Sorry about the double same reply, I must of pushed submit twice, as it was taking ages to send,…:-))x

Matty June 24, 2014 at 10:06 pm

Cat, you made some good points but i have a couple of points of concern.

You kept referencing Acts but based on the sentiments you were expressing i think you meant the first letter to the church in Corinth ?

One aspect upon which i agree with you 100% is the spiritual childishness of obsession with tongues or any gift of the spirit or a human teacher or even the word of God, anything really other than God himself, we as humans are prone to setting, even good things, up as idols. The Lord our God, The Lord is one and we shouldn’t hold anything as of greater importance than Him.

But I do believe (and understand that many may disagree and am happy to agree to disagree in love with my brothers and sisters in Christ, as there are more important issues) that God would have us eagerly desire his greater gifts as Paul wrote to the church in Corinth that they should, including the speaking of foreign tongues (and those of angels) as inspired by God’s Spirit.

You mentioned women being forbidden to speak and make the assumption that this must also refer to speaking in tongues, but i would argue that this isn’t necessarily accurate.

So here’s what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight. If prayers are offered in tongues, two or three’s the limit, and then only if someone is present who can interpret what you’re saying. Otherwise, keep it between God and yourself. And no more than two or three speakers at a meeting, with the rest of you listening and taking it to heart. Take your turn, no one person taking over. Then each speaker gets a chance to say something special from God, and you all learn from each other. If you choose to speak, you’re also responsible for how and when you speak. When we worship the right way, God doesn’t stir us up into confusion; he brings us into harmony. This goes for all the churches—no exceptions.

Wives must not disrupt worship, talking when they should be listening, asking questions that could more appropriately be asked of their husbands at home. God’s Book of the law guides our manners and customs here. Wives have no license to use the time of worship for unwarranted speaking. Do you—both women and men—imagine that you’re a sacred oracle determining what’s right and wrong? Do you think everything revolves around you?

If any one of you thinks God has something for you to say or has inspired you to do something, pay close attention to what I have written. This is the way the Master wants it. If you won’t play by these rules, God can’t use you. Sorry.

Three things, then, to sum this up: When you speak forth God’s truth, speak your heart out. Don’t tell people how they should or shouldn’t pray when they’re praying in tongues that you don’t understand. Be courteous and considerate in everything. (1 Corinthians 14:26-40 MSG)

I would argue that the women remaining silent in church obviously had a lot to do with the culture and context. Being uneducated, many were asking questions about goings on and this was obviously unhelpful and distracting to the others present. So speaking in tongues being a gift bestowed by the Spirit as he wills, I cant reconcile Paul forbidding them to speak in tongues if it was to be interpreted.

Concerning prophecy you stated that it had ceased with the completion of revelation, personally i disagree however, believing that God still uses prophecy in the Church setting to edify believers. You also argue that the need for signs ended when the Church was established, but i would argue that there was never a need for signs, God often chooses to convict by his spirit without the use of a physical (or verbal) sign and if He had seen fit to establish His Church without miracles, there would be none to stop Him from doing so. But our God is a gracious God and in my humble opinion, He chose to give us signs because we are so fickle haha for me it therefore follows that there is no logical reason for any of this to have ceased and i believe i still see evidence of that today.

Finally you said that it is important to have a minister with an understanding of theology because many Christians seek to understand the context of the bible but i would raise one concern. Despite the many blessings you and I both have surely come upon because of the work of ministers or pastors or whatever we may call them, they are only men (perhaps women) as we are. They are obviously susceptible to corruption, greed, delusions etc. as we all are. They also (as all humans) cannot have a complete grasp of the entirety of God’s Truth being incapable of possessing such. This makes reliance on them for anything including teaching potentially dangerous and as well as the good i have also seen the bad that can be caused because we have created these positions of power and authority in our churches. That is why I believe the biblical model for Church leadership is solely deacons and elders, all accountable to each other and the entire body as brothers and sisters, not parents and children. And with all contributing, having fellowship and edifying one another, not being spoon fed and returning to their lives leaving all of ‘Church’ behind !

I do not say this to knock Jack, or any other leader as I am sure much good comes from his ministry and theirs but just to show what I believe God has pointed out from scripture.

Jesus said we are to call no one rabbi or teacher, instructor, master or even father for he is our teacher, God is our Father ! We do not need minsters because the Spirit himself is our instructor, minister of the word, helper, comforter, guide, counsellor, revealer of Truth, gift giver and fruit producer.

But hey above all we should put on love, as you dear sister have emphasised !

Thank you Cat for your comments and the rest of you, i have found them enlightening, contributing to the broadening of my thinking, for i know i can be narrow minded.

Grace and peace to you brothers and sisters.

Reply

Cat February 18, 2014 at 6:16 pm

Thanks Paul…That email just showed up in my in box but is not on the site. I agree, it was in reference to our statements in support of tongues needing to be translated and being a known language which makes it translatable. I stand firm with what I have said, what you have said, and what Pastor Jack has taught on this site…We all seem to agree on this! Since that persons comment is not showing on the site, I also will not mention them by name.

What is said in the story of Pentecost actually supports the fact that it was a known translatable language rather than the opposite. For some reason many seem to think that because it happened at Pentecost, that somehow cancels out what is said in other parts of Acts. It does not! However, we will never change this practice I fear because most will preach their point in support but will not take their own advice and bother to reread what is written with an open heart and an understanding of the context of the bible in reference to the biblical timeline. Nor will they research into the languages original meanings, or take the word of those who have.

In the end, does it really matter? It is not that important to our faith. What is important is that we all believe in God, ask to be saved, to be made his own, and truly repent of our sins. That is how one is saved, not through the speaking of tongues. Continue to speak the truth for that is our duty and that is all that we can do, other than support the minister who preach on this topic. God be with you my brother in Christ.

Blessings,
Cat

Reply

Jeff Herr February 18, 2014 at 10:03 pm

Hi Cat and Paul,
Exactly who translated it in Acts 2?

Reply

Jack Wellman February 18, 2014 at 10:16 pm

The Old and New Testament which constitutes our bible (lit= books) were written in two basic languages. The Old Testament in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek (with some of the sayings of Jesus in Aramaic). The first Latin translation was by St Jerome. The Venerable Bede was the 1st person to translate it into English.

The term that is used to identify the tongues movement is “glossolalia,” made up of two Greek words, glossa (language or tongue) and lalia (speech). It therefore means speaking in languages or tongues. Glossology is that department of anthropology which has to do with the study and classification of languages and dialects.

The word glossa appears in the Greek New Testament not less than fifty times. It is used to refer to the physical organ of the tongue as in James 3:5; once in reference to the flames of fire shaped like tongues (Acts 2:3); at least once in a metaphorical sense when referring to speech as in the statement, “my tongue (speech) was glad (joyous)” (Acts 2:26). As far as I understand the remaining usages of the word it always means a language.

Reply

Mr A Cotton February 19, 2014 at 3:38 pm

There are only two occasions where God acted to alter “Tongues” that I know of. 1. In the Old Testament when they were building the Tower of Babel God saw through their motives they were building the Tower for themselves,and that this would lead them away from God so He made them talk in different Tongues so it would make it difficult for them to build.
This spread all over the world so to me this means foreign language`s.
In the the New Testament during Pentecost the Apostles where terrified to come out of the room they were in because they were used to Jesus to tell them what to do.
Then a wind came in and an image of a flame rested on each of the Apostles heads this was the Holy Spirit which gave them the power to fear nothing.
This meant that they were very confident and when they spoke everybody understood them in their own language.
Something (Holy Spirit) tells me that this speaking in tongues is a load of rubbish.
I am now 65 years old and I have never heard anybody speak in this gibberish.
It does not mention this gibberish in the bible so I take it that it comes from some where else. (Satan it`s a good distraction from God,and it seems to working on this site)
That`s the End of this rubbish from me.

Reply

Jack Wellman February 19, 2014 at 5:36 pm

Anthony, I wish more people remembered what Jesus said that we shall know them by their fruits and not by their gifts. Which is more important? Fruits, clearly as Gal 5:22-23 says But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” Even Paul said that love is the greatest of these when he spoke of the gifts and he spent more time on the fruits of the Holy Spirit as did Jesus than either ever did the gifts.

Reply

Mr A Cotton February 20, 2014 at 2:23 pm

Are you apologizing to me Jack if you are I do not know what for.
Cat beat me to it, has Cat say`s don`t be too hard on yourself,and to be quite honest I do not know how you do it(Yes I do It`s the Holy Spirit) and you speak Spanish has well.
I have been to Spain twice and I just used hand signs nodding my head,and funny enough we got through to each other.
I have been to Italy too the same thing happened there too.
I was trying to get across one of the many Zebra crossings to get to the Coliseum,but they would not stop.
An Italian noticed this and he got hold of my arm and we both stepped out onto the Zebra crossing.
He spoke some English and said you will be there all day if you are waiting for them to stop for you.
They have got to stop when you put your first foot on the crossing.
The purpose for this is that I did not talk in their tongues,but the Italian did speak a little in my tongue.
To me that`s what it means in the bible.
You need not reply to this Jack.
I think about you some days and you are about the same age has me. I find it hard just to get through the day.
Just remember God is with you in all what you do Jack.

Reply

Jack Wellman February 20, 2014 at 5:35 pm

I was replying in general to Paul but to others whom I may have inadvertently done the same thing. Even believers cannot agree about everything but those who believe in tongues are still my brothers and sisters in Christ and I love them and we do agree on the most important essentials of the faith: We believe that Jesus was literally conceived and born of a virgin named Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Luke 1:26-33). We believe that Jesus lived a sinless life (1 Pet. 2:22; 1 Jn. 3:5). We believe that salvation is in none other than through the name, person, work, and grace of Jesus Christ (Jn. 14:6; Jn. 3:16; Rom.5:8). We believe that all 66 books of the Bible are the “only” inspired word of God to the world. We do not acknowledge the Apocrypha, Psuedopigrapha, Gnostic Gospels, or the Book of Mormon to be “inspired scripture” (2 Tim. 3:16). We believe that God is the creator of all things, is all-powerful, all-knowing, and in control to do as He wills (14:15; Jer. 32:17; Eph. 3:20; Psa.139:1-4; 1 Sam.2:6-9; Psa. 24:1).

I appreciate you thinking of me and my work and it does grind on me, sometimes to a pulp, but we are to press ahead, toward the prize and someday I get to meet you and the others in the Kingdom and for such a day I long for.

Reply

Kris February 20, 2014 at 3:32 pm

Jack thank you for being willing to discuss difficult subjects among believers in todays world.
As an additional aside….would you please pray for me and my family …we are going to China from March 1 through the 15th Lord willing.

It is a family occasion…my husband will not be going …but I am looking forward to whereever the Lord may open a door of utterance….excited to see what is in store.

Thank you for your faithfulness to the Lord’s leading.

Reply

Jack Wellman February 20, 2014 at 5:40 pm

Count on me Kris for prayers for you all…no doubt…and please pray for our family as my wife has been very ill and is going to have surgery tomorrow (Fri) and it is putting stress on us financially too but her health above all things. I pray God makes divine appointments so that the Kingdom may be expanded thru the preaching of the gospel for His glory Kris. You are such a good friend and as I told Anthony, I yearn for the day when we meet in the Kingdom.

Reply

Cat February 20, 2014 at 7:13 pm

Pastor, You and yours will be in my prayers. Email me and let me know how she is doing sometime this weekend if you can. Don’t worry about these postings. You have taught many of us well and I am sure that for the most part, there are enough of us who can answer the most pressing questions for any newcomers. The rest will wait until you can get to it. For the moment, you need rest so that you can be all that is needed for your loving wife. I will let you know if there is something that needs your immediate attention. Take a break, rest, and don’t worry. This site for one has been blessed by some really good people who seem strong in the faith and of the same mind.

May God’s peace be with you all this night and in the coming days. Tell your wife that she is being thought of and prayed for by those of us here, for you have become a dear friend and I know others here feel the same.

God’s Blessings,
Cat

P.S. For others knowledge who may have to someday feel the burden of financial stress due to medical illness…If it is ever needed, there are ways to declare bankruptcy for this. With our currant economy, the courts can make a distinction for most in this situation. Now of course this means not charging up cards because you plan on doing this. I was forced to take this route. I started proceedings but waited almost 2 yrs before completing my filing. I kept hoping to find another way. In the meantime, I cut up all my cards and refused to use any credit. It showed because it took only two yrs after completion and I am now being given enough credit to rebuild it again. It no longer takes min of 10 yrs. God is good! Also I have been told and most people do not know that they can not take you to court for medical bills in most states. Plus, if you make any sort of payments, even a dollar, they have to accept it in good faith. If I had known this before it would have eased my worries greatly.

Reply

Jack Wellman February 20, 2014 at 8:38 pm

It is putting us into physical and financial hardships too because of all the things that we have to copay for and my wife is being forced to retire and we will lose our health insurance at end of August. Thanks, covet your prayers. I praise Him in this storm and may God use these things for His glory in whatever outcome may be and I thank God in this all and give thanks for you

Reply

Mr A Cotton February 21, 2014 at 2:48 pm

Cat has you know I live in England,and medical help is free.
If you are rich you can jump the queue and you get treated by Bupa.
Can you give me your email because I want to ask you for important information about an issue on this site please.
I am sorry to hear about the bad news you have posted Jack.
I am sure God will take care of it,and I fully agree with Cat that you should take it easy for your sake and your wife`s God Bless You Jack

Reply

Jack Wellman February 21, 2014 at 7:03 pm

Thanks my good friend. We are home now and she is resting and I truly thank God for you and Cat, my beloved friends whom I can’t wait to meet in the coming Kingdom.

Kris February 21, 2014 at 12:27 am

I am secure in the knowledge that Jesus hears and will do all His will for His glory and our good and that is no cliche idea . He has prepared so much for his children to do that we do not often recall to mind under pressure. I am assured for your sake that He knows the depth of what your wife means to you ,…your family and His work among us .

I am thankful for your steadfastness here …and I have to think all of the expenses of this hour have been YOURS from the beginning! I praise Him that His children have not only the treasures in heaven but provision here and now!

She is indeed your precious companion and you do demonstrate your care and love for her !

Pro 19:14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.

Psa 42:11 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

Psa 147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

Lord knows we need every courageous servant of the Lord today !

So thank you Lord for keeping this precious wife in your sight and guide each surgeon as he performs his part in her healthy recovery! In Jesus precious name ! AMEN!

Reply

Kris February 21, 2014 at 1:35 am

Jack!Your example of meekness to God and faithfulness and graciousness here is such a wonderful encouragement to all who come here ..I hope you can keep this in mind as we appreciate you and your energetic service to the Lord as you continue giving …we all love your effort and consistent concern for truth and those who God brings here…I think I can agree that you are loved ! Keep up the walk in His care…B>)

Reply

Jack Wellman February 21, 2014 at 7:06 pm

Wow…thank you Kris…so precious are the love of the saints of God and I truly thank God for you Kris. As I have often said, we can disagree on non-essentials but we don’t have to be disagreeable and I don’t think Daniel was and I respect him and his view. It is not something that will keep us out of the Kingdom and that day that I get to meet so many of the readers…oh, what a joyous day that will be!

Reply

kris February 21, 2014 at 7:39 pm

Thank you Lord for Jack and his beloved as she recovers fully from her surgery! ….we are all grateful for the life you both have shared with us for Christ’s name sake.

Thanking Him for a speedy recovery and comfort in the mean time!

Reply

Lori March 7, 2014 at 10:42 pm

So disagree! Please pray more over this subject!

Reply

Cat March 8, 2014 at 7:42 am

Lori…We all have prayed…many have studied the original languages to check accuracy in the translations. We have studied our Bible and this is the clarity God has given us. We can say the same thing, that we disagree and suggest you pray more. The fact of the matter is that it does no good! You won’t be able to change our minds on tongues and I am pretty sure there is not much chance of our changing yours. That is okay however because we, I am sure, believe the really important issues..That we have one God…That he sent his son, Jesus to die for our sins…Strive to live according to his word…Finally, that the only way to heaven is to repent of our sins and request to be made one of God’s own children…to Be saved! For greater than the gifts of the spirit are the fruits of the spirit…Love is the greatest gift we can possess…Greater than any other! God Bless you…Cat

Reply

Jack Wellman March 8, 2014 at 11:36 am

Amen Cat. Jesus is more interested in fruit than in gifts of the Spirit for He said that they would them by their fruit and not by their gifts. I wish more people remembered what Jesus said that we shall know them by their fruits and not by their gifts. Which is more important? Fruits, clearly as Gal 5:22-23 says But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” Even Paul said that love is the greatest of these when he spoke of the gifts and he spent more time on the fruits of the Holy Spirit as did Jesus than either ever did the gifts.

Reply

Farai April 16, 2014 at 9:31 am

Hey….I really enjoy your article although there is this one thing I don’t get.

In Mark 16:9-20, Jesus is giving the apostles the great commission and he stated that signs, i.e. speaking new tongues, casting out demons and laying hands on the sick and healing them, is a sign that a person believes. On the other hand in 1 Corinthians 12, Paul implies that not everyone would be able to speak in tongues and that they are a gift of God.

How do I do justice to 1 Corinthians 12 and Mark 16 as I feel as if I must conclude that I am not a Christian because I don’t see these signs.

Reply

Jack Wellman April 16, 2014 at 11:56 am

Hello Farai and thank you so much for your question and comment. I agree that not everyone will be able to speak in tongues (“glossia” which is Greek, for language) and this does not mean anyone is or isn’t a Christian because Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits…not by their gifts or tongues or (fill in the blank) but by these two things we know they are believers: by their love for one another and by their fruits. Gifts are not the sign of a believer being a believer, they might be the results of it but Jesus never, ever said we will know them by their speaking in tongues or but by their fruits and their love for one another (see 1 JOhn chapter 3).

Reply

Mr A Cotton April 16, 2014 at 12:17 pm

You say you conclude you not a christian because I don`t see these signs.
I don`t see these signs has well, but this does not make me a christian.
I don`t know if you have watched the film about St Bernadette,and there was one nun who was very bitter that St Bernadette saw our Lady,and understood what Our Lady meant.
The nun said that she preyed all the years she was a nun, scrubbed floors,and did lots of things,but nothing happened to her.
The penny dropped when all the nun`s were doing their daily exercise just walking round in a circle.
The doctor,and the head nun where standing watching,and the doctor noticed that St Bernadette was limping,and he said to the head nun why is she limping,but the head nun said I don`t know.
The doctor said I will have a look at her to see what is the matter.
When the doctor examined her he was shocked,and the head nun said what`s a matter.
The doctor said it`s impossible fore her to walk in her state the pain must horrendous,and the head nun said she has never complained about anything.
St Bernadette was sent straight away to bed because she was close to dying.
The bitter nun saw all this,and heard what they said,then the penny dropped she never complained once,and found out that St Bernadette was close to dying,and never cried out in pain at all.
The point of this true story Farai is you are that bitter nun you want to see these signs.
Jesus said happy are those who have not seen yet still believe.
These tongues are foreign languages it does not say once in the bible giving you tongues are different.
This gibberish is not written in the bible once,nor are their are any examples that the apostles said anything in these tongues in the bible. Hope this helps Farai.

Reply

Matty June 24, 2014 at 11:45 pm

Tongues of angels are mentioned. And I know it is argued that angels in the bible always spoke in (i was about to write English but that wouldnt be right haha) the language of whoever they were speaking to, probably Hebrew or Aramaic or maybe Greek. This isnt definitive proof however that they do not speak an angelic language and from my own reading of scripture that is how I would interpret it.

Reply

Matty June 24, 2014 at 11:38 pm

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” (Mark 16:17, 18 NIV)

If we do any of these things it is not of ourselves but of God, as you say a ‘gift of God’. Jesus didnt say that any one believer would do all of these things and I’m pretty sure i can think of a story from Acts alone where each of those things happen… Apart from the poison, but I’m pretty sure one of the apostles was poisoned but he didnt die so he was beheaded ? (I think i remember that from some sort of church tradition rather than the NT but I’m not entirely certain)

I wouldnt worry about not seeing these things as none of them secure salvation, that is through grace alone. And many Christians in todays society (namely cessationists) believe that the gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Corinthians 12 have all stopped so I’m guessing those other miracles too ? Apart from, as Jack says, the fruit of the Spirit which despite being concidered qualities we can obtain, aren’t really, they are also of the Spirit and provide evidence for His indwelling not specifically the speaking in tongues of men and angels as many of the charismatic movement seem to (falsely) hold as Truth.

However, these are the kinds of things that God wants us to seek after (I’m referring to all previously mentioned ‘gifts’). Jesus told us that all (as if it isn’t much haha) it takes to move mountains is the faith of a mustard seed.

The best advise i can give you is to pray about it, ask him, he will show you the path he has laid before you. I nor anyone else knows you like He does and we could never give you as good advise as He can !

Grace and peace to you brother, i pray you find what you are seeking.

Reply

Madison June 21, 2014 at 9:56 pm

I most definitely agree with some points you have made here on this article. I can certainly see why it may be very strange for an unbeliever to see a group of Christians coming together and speaking in another language unlearned to them. (1 Corinthians 14:23) However, in my personal experience and through Biblical study I have learned that the Bible does in fact use this sign as the evidence of the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer.

Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree with you that speaking in another language through the Holy Spirit was a sign during Acts 2. However, after Peter’s addresses to the crowd concerning Jesus Christ, the listeners asks Peter what to do (see verse 37), or how to be saved! Peter responds with the following verse “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
This means that you repent of your old sin, and pray to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins by his precious blood at Calvary. Peter then is explaining through the Holy Spirit that the you need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (which all recorded believers in the Bible have been baptized in), and this baptize symbolizes the burial of Jesus. The Holy Spirit then, represents the resurrection of His body, and the promise of eternal life with Him.

I also agree that when God gives us his promise of the Holy Spirit can certainly be a understandable language. However, you yourself are not actually speaking the words, but the Holy Spirit, (of Jesus Christ indwelling in you) is providing the words to speak. Biblical evidence for this is located in Acts 2:4, where it certainly says tongues or other languages, which is one of the types of tongues God infills a believer with, but it also says “they spoke as the Spirit enabled them.” This means they spoke as God gave these followers the words, meaning the people were not speaking through a language they learned physically already.

Without a doubt though, the verse described in chat has a very profound and powerful message. “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.” (1 Corinthians 13:1). This verse says that the ultimate point of being saved is to be Christ-like and full of his love, not to only simply speak in tongues through the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is the evidence that one is infilled with the Holy Spirit, which is given as a gift that we might be saved and also be given words to be a witness of Jesus Christ, the Holy One and First and Last. This verse also brings about an interesting detail as it says “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels”. This means that those people who were speaking in tongues in this Church you describe may have been speaking in the tongue of an angel, not empty words or meaningless gibberish.

I understand your frustration though, it must seem very foreign and almost scary in your situation, with all the speaking and jumping. The Bible specifically states that it is not God will at all to have chaos. (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). This definitely does not match the description you described, but this does not mean if you do not have an interpretation you should not speak in tongues. Verse 28 says “If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.” In other words, the verse is saying that if you do not have a interpenetration of the tongue you spoke by the Holy Spirit, you should not shout and try to edify the church. This does not mean that you should forbid yourself from speaking in tongues, as the verse says “and speak to himself and God.” meaning you should not try and edify the church by trying to shout out your tongue, but rather keep it to yourself and God.

Therefore, the 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 pretty much sum up what God’s will is regarding the benefit of the church in tongue interpretations. I hope I did not offend you or anyone else by posting this, I am only going off of what the Bible says and what it’s plan of salvation is. If any of you have not repented of your sins, been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit as the evidence of speaking in tongues, I do not wish to grieve you or appear to be judgmental. However, I know God wants us Christians to “speak the truth in love”, and I encourage the reader to read all of what he Bible has to say regarding salvation and speaking in tongues.

Reply

Hester June 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm

Dear Matty
I don’t seem to find the message you left on here but received the notification through my email. You said “Some good points Hester, but among believers should we not be united ? And although i agree with you that we should declare Jesus as Lord, does that mean we cannot have fellowship with those of other faiths ? Shouldn’t we show them the love that Jesus has shown us and hope and pray that they will see Him through us ?””

Firstly Matty, we were told to PREACH the gospel and faith comes through HEARING the gospel, not show it. Secondly, The primary problem with all this is that doctrine is being rejected in favor of unity. And the unity is not the unity about which Christ prayed,”That they may be one.”

Jesus prayed, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.” (Jn 17:17) Paul writes to Timothy, “give attention to reading, exhortation, doctrine …heed to yourself and to the doctrine.” (1Tim 4:13,16) “Holding fast the faithful word..by sound doctrine both to exhort and convict those who contradict.” (Tit 1:9) Paul further affirms, “as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.” (1Ths 2:4)

A STERN WARNING is given regarding perverting the gospel, “I marvel that you are turning away…to a different gospel; but there are some who..pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” (Gal 1:6-8~) This is a double curse.

How important is doctrine?

What happened when man rebelled against God and decided to unite, “lest we should be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth” (Gen 11:4), and built a tower of worship to gods other than God Most High? He came and confused their speech. Then, He further aided in spreading them out by separating the land into continents. (Gen 10:25)

When it came to rejecting Jesus, “Pilate and Herod became friends with each other, for before that they had been at enmity with each other.” (Lk 23:12)

In rejecting Jesus’ resurrection, the Jewish elders paid a “large sum of money to the soldiers” (Mt 28:12) to perpetrate a lie that the disciples “had stolen His body.”

As Paul evangelized Asia Minor, the Jews consistently followed him, stirring up people to persecute him. Their zeal in this was so strong that they willingly consorted with Gentiles (“dogs & unclean”) to work their evil.

“Why do the nations rage, and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying ‘Let us break Their bonds in pieces and cast away Their cords from us.'” (Ps 2:1-3) Man rebels against God and His laws!

Christians are urged “Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.” (1Jn 2:15-17)

John, the Apostle of Love, writes about Unity in his first epistle. Unity starts with a knowledge of Christ. Knowledge of Christ involves keeping His commandments. “Whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.” (2:3-6)

Then, as “we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1:7) Conversely, lack of brotherly unity indicates a lack of fellowship with God. (3:10,4:20)

The unity for which Jesus prayed, “I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me” (Jn 17:23) only occurs when a person is “In Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.” (2Cor 5:17)

“No longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him Who is the head-Christ-from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.” (Eph 4:14-16)

Some organizations busily “guard each man’s dignity and save each man’s pride.” But a person wanting to question what is going on, to be sure it is OF GOD is given the cold shoulder and pays the price of hate and name-calling by those in the organization. (Does this at all seem like a “double standard” by those promoting “love and acceptance?”)

The Ecumenical movement goes along head-strong, gathering momentum and acceptance by the world. However, the promised retribution for not following is to be persecution and martyrdom. ( Ut Unum Sint , May, 95)

WHAT DOES JESUS PROMISE? “I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (Jn 10:10)

“But outside are dogs, sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.” (Rev 22:15)

“Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.” The price for this “unity?” In the words of Jesus, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (Mt 7:13,23)

“Get along, whatever the cost.” CAN YOU AFFORD IT?

Reply

Matty June 25, 2014 at 1:30 am

Yeah, I agree with the majority of what you’re saying.

All i would say is that unity AMONG BELIEVERS is of more importance than doctrine, assuming that as believers both parties believe the Truth, and only differ on finer points.

Get the word out. Teach all these things. And don’t let anyone put you down because you’re young. Teach believers with your life: by word, by demeanor, by love, by faith, by integrity. Stay at your post reading Scripture, giving counsel, teaching. And that special gift of ministry you were given when the leaders of the church laid hands on you and prayed—keep that dusted off and in use. (1 Timothy 4:11-14 MSG)

I do think it is important to know what one believes, but in terms of doctrine, all we can be 100% sure about is that all of what any one person believes is guaranteed not to be completely right haha we aren’t capable of knowing the entirety of God’s Truth. Yet sound doctrine is important as you have said.

When i said we should have fellowship with those who believe differently from us, i most certainly did not mean in the way that those who built the Tower of Babel did. I meant that in obedience to God, we should not shut ourselves away and only engage with other Christians. But as you said we are to tell all the world of God’s glorious Truth and the wonderful news that their debt is paid in full by His grace, all that is required is submission to His will.

I did not mean unity to deny the Truth, but unity to uphold the Truth.

I do think that we could be united with other faiths for the good of society, say for example in a charity.

I don’t know what you are talking about guarding dignity and saving pride but you are right that His will should be discerned and love and acceptance should be sought after.

I also know nothing of the Ecumenical movement, i only know that all God requires of us is that we walk humbly, act justly and love mercy.

Grace and peace brother.

Reply

Jack Wellman June 25, 2014 at 8:19 am

Matty…I fear that too many of us major in the minors and minor in the majors. What was the tongue of angels? Any time an angel spoke what language was it? A know language. Do you think an angel would speak an unknown language to Mary about Jesus’ birth? To Daniel who was waiting for the angel to speak to him? Where is one time in all the Bible where an angel spoke in an unknown tongue?
I think we do harm by being divisive. Jesus said that we would do all these things but did He mean raise the dead too? What was Jesus’ last command to the church? To make disciples of all nations. Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits, not by their gifts and all men will know by the love we have for one another. Please try to just let this go and understand that we may not all agree but we can agree to disagree on non-essentials, can’t we? I have known Cat for some time and she is a godly woman who is such a sweet spirited lady and I am sure you are too sir. Let’s end the discussion here and focus on what the greatest thing a tongue can ever do…tell others that they need to repent and trust in Christ. What is more important? Speaking in tongues or using the tongue to rescue the perishing?

Reply

cat June 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm

Hi Matty…I do not have time to get into this at the moment so I am only going to say one thing…Part of the problem is that we are reading diff bibles. You may be right as I do not have time to search for the reply I wrote a while back about tongues and the bible saying woman were not to speak in church. I answer many of these late at night and sometimes more than one at a time. So if I misqouted the book it was located in, I am sorry. You are right it is in 1st Corinthians. However I did not misqoute the words… All of Chapter 14 speaks in detail about tongues and its use. We are warned over and over about speaking in unknown tongues which makes it pretty clear that the tongues that were used as a gift, were known languages. Paul also says very clearly in vs. 34-35, “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for woman to speak in the church.”

Accourding to you in the N.T. it says, “Wives must not disrupt worship, talking when they should be listening, asking questions that could more appropriately be asked of their husbands at home. God’s Book of the law guides our manners and customs here. Wives have no license to use the time of worship for unwarranted speaking.” See the difference…it is not the same. I suggest you reread this in another bible preferably the king james but any of the older translations will show you the differance. If you still have doubts, study the old languages that the bible was written in…what the words meant(social context, etc) at the time of Christ, not what they have changed to mean today. I warn you that many churches do not use this bible because it changes Gods word into what the author believes in an acceptable translation for todays world. There are many cases where whole scriptures have been either changed in meaning, absorbed into other verses, or sadly, left out completely in some cases. We are warned time and again of the punishment for anyone who changes the word of God. Yes, we can argue that we believe the times have changed and maybe God would not require woman to be silent anymore, esp since the time for the old Hebrew law pasted with the coming of Christ. However, no matter what we think, we are forbidden to change Gods’ word.

Thanks Pastor for the kind words.

God Bless…Cat

Reply

cat June 25, 2014 at 5:12 pm

Sorry I meant to say the message Bible…I was given one of these years ago. Having read the older translations, I gave it willingly to my pastor who in return gave me a king James…I also have a new king james and a revised standard version bible. I have read others but so many of the newer bibles have changed Gods word and in trying to make it into modern day street language, they have left out entire scriptures, changed the meaning of scripures, and left out thing like references to The Spirit”, etc. Plus they have left out the historical context that goes into translations and there for the meaning changes without it. I am sorry but the Message is a commentary on the bible and should be read as such.

Edna July 31, 2014 at 6:10 am

I have read your statement in which you say that persons who emphasize speaking in tongues are merely taking one aspect of the Word to an extreme. but, isn’t that what makes denominations? The Church is a true reflection of the Word of God and so when churches/denominations are put together like a quilt that’s how it will be. As one who has been a Roman Catholic, a Methodist, A Baptist and many other denominations reflecting the Charismatic/Full Gospel/Evangelical and the influence of the Seventh Day Adventist (realizing in my later years that the exposure to these was mere preparation for the role God has given me to perform, working with all denominations) I have an appreciation for and see the worth and importance of speaking in tongues and a) what some denominations consider the Holy Spirit living inside you when you give your heart to the Lord and b) the Baptism of the Holy spirit with the manifestation of speaking in tongues which may or may not happen at the same time but certainly does later on and has a very important place. You see, I have learnt Who the Holy Spirit is and have developed a relationship with Him and have seen and heard of Him working. Eg there is recorded this situation where a foreign (non-English speaking) female who was homeless visited a church meeting. At the end of the service when the Pastor gave the altar call, without her understanding all else that had gone on, she heard the Pastor call her by her full name, called her up to the altar, led her to the Lord as he spoke in ‘tongues’/her own language. This was told the church the following night when the now saved lady asked her daughter who spoke English, to go with her to the church and tell the Pastor of her experience the night before. I strongly believe that ‘tongues’ are foreign languages and because there are so many we might not know what we have spoken. I also believe that we have the ability to stand in one accord with brethren wherever they are as we pray and often do so in their own language. I am aware of a particular syllable I would speak when I worship the Lord and discovered the term means I worship you when I heard a US-based evangelism team singing choruses one of which included this phrase and putting the interpretation on a screen

Reply

Jack Wellman February 18, 2014 at 2:27 pm

Paul, I agreed that they needed a translator but I speak Spanish too and this being a known language still requires a translator because not everyone speaks Spanish so the fact that they needed a translator proves nothing except that they needed to translate the unknown (literal) language of the speaker. That is not an unknown language but known. The word “unknown” is not in the original Greek in the New Testament…anyway, I think we’ve reached the end…let us part as brothers in Christ and no problem and I do agree, Matt 6:33 is where its at brother. Thank you.

Reply

Jack Wellman February 19, 2014 at 6:02 pm

I want to apologize to you sir and I am so sorry for my response to you was meant for someone else and what you said on the tongues article was so true and I thank God for you sir for your support for the truth. I believe we may have blocked you accidentally and so if you can try to reply again to the article or you may have to use another email to comment. Again, please accept my apology sir for my unintentional comment meant for someone else and that you might have been blocked and I accept full responsibility for it and I am so sorry sir. Please forgive me. Thank you for your time.

Reply

Cat February 19, 2014 at 7:34 pm

We all make mistakes, Pastors included! In your case Pastor Jack, I know what you have to juggle, not just with working a regular job, pastoring a church full time as well, continuing to monitor and respond to all your postings on WCWTK, school, and family. To be honest, I could never keep up! Don’t be so hard on yourself. Those of us who have followed your postings for a while will have recognized that you had intended your response for another. We appreciate you and I know everyone understands how overloaded you are. Peace and God’s comfort be with you…Cat

Reply

Jack Wellman February 19, 2014 at 7:38 pm

Thank you so much my friend. I tell the church where I am the under-shepherd to the Great Shepherd that “Today, part of my sermon will be perfect…the part where I read out of the Bible!” LOL My part? Not so much. Thanks for understanding and I do hope Paul does and comes back as well as Jeff and Anthony too. Your such an encouragement to me Cat! ><>

Reply

Leave a Comment

Powered by sweet Captcha





Previous post:

Next post: