Is it Sin For Unmarried Christians To Live Together? A Pastor’s Counseling Session

by Jack Wellman · Print Print · Email Email

What does the Bible say about living together?  Is the Bible silent on this?  What if the couple is not having sex?

Here is an actual exchange of a counseling session I had with a young lady who believed that she was a Christian and asked for advice about whether it was sin or not to live with or even stay the night with her boyfriend even though she claimed that there was no sex involved.  I have changed her name in order to protect her privacy.  I want to use this to establish the fact that living together outside of the bounds of marriage is sin…even if there is no sex.  Here is a real counseling session I had with a young lady that was seeking some guidance from a pastor but didn’t have a church home.  You will see later why this young lady didn’t have one.  Please follow along with me and see why people who may not be saved or even Christian put their beliefs or feelings over what God’s Word actually teaches.  This is dangerous ground to be on and like walking on thin ice, not knowing when the ice will break away and they will plunge through the deadly, icy cold waters.

living together outside of the bounds of marriage is sin…even if there is no sex

living together outside of the bounds of marriage is sin…even if there is no sex

Counseling Session

Julie:  Hey my name is Julie and I have none else to talk to… Would u please try to help me?   Could you give me some advice?

Me:  Maybe you should talk to your pastor or an elder or deacon.  Do you not have other Christians in your church to talk to?  What advice could your pastor not give that I could?

Julie: Well I don’t have a good church to go to…but its okay you don’t gotta help.

Me:  I don’t mind helping but perhaps you are struggling with your faith because you are outside of the sheepfold that Jesus is the Great Shepherd of.  When believers are put out of the church for discipline they are said to be delivered to Satan to buffet them so that their soul might be saved (1 Tim 1:19-20).  You are outside of the church’s protection and separated from the saints and subject to spiritual attacks.  There is safety in the fold and in the flock just as in nature, there is safety in numbers.  Why don’t you have a church home?

Julie: Because we always either get asked to leave or people judge us but what I was gonna ask was I’m 19 and I wanna stay the night with my boyfriend at his house    But my mom is kinda controlling and doesn’t want me to she always compares me to my sisters which him and I aren’t gonna have sex.. He and I don’t want that not anytime soon … I don’t see the problem with it.

Me:  Maybe your mom is only “controlling” because what you are doing, staying the night with your boyfriend, and she sees this as is sin even if you don’t have sex with him.  This is why the church is “judging” you.  Are you a Christian?  Is your boyfriend?  If he is not a believer then you breaking a commanded to not be dating or to be unequally yoked with or joined with non-believers (2 Cor 6:14).  If he is a Christian, then he should know better.  The members of the church are commanded to abstain from every appearance of evil (1 Thess 5:22), even if nothing is happening, because they too can hurt the witness for the church and the cause of Christ.  We too must abstain from every appearance of evil.

I once counseled a young Christian couple who were boyfriend and girlfriend and lived together.  They insisted that they slept in separate bedrooms and never had sex.  I told them that it doesn’t matter because most of their neighbors assumed that they must have been having sex because they lived together.  What was worse, they knew that they were Christians.  They hurt the witness of the church even though they didn’t have any sexual immorality occurring (allegedly).  It didn’t matter if they weren’t.  What mattered was that non-believers thought that they were because they were living together.  I strongly suggested that they live separately because they were giving the appearance of evil and even if there was no sin, they were bringing shame on the case for Christ by their doing so.  May it never be so among the Bride of Christ as He desires we live holy lives and this includes being above reproach.   Just because you don’t see this as a problem the Bible calls it sin.  What God believes is more important than what we think and disobeying God like this is sin and may show you are not truly saved and your eternal fate is in jeopardy (Rev 20:11-15).  I say this in love, not just as a pastor, but for your eternal soul’s sake.

Julie: Wait…before listening what do you believe? I don’t think spending the night with my boyfriend is wrong.

Me:  I believe what God says and what God says is more important that what I believe and as I said,  Is your boyfriend?  If he is not then you are not to even be dating as the Bible commands us to not be unequally yoked or joined with non-believers (2 Cor 6:14).  If he is a Christian, then he should know better and are commanded to abstain from every appearance of evil (1 Thess 5:22), even if nothing is happening, because they too can hurt the witness for the church and the cause of Christ.  It doesn’t matter what you think but what God says and if you follow your feeling over what God says then you may not be saved (read 1 John chapter 3).  Send this or print it out for your pastor or mom and I think they would agree.

Julie:  Just forget it cause it does matter

Me: Okay, this will be my last contact with you my friend if that is what you want.  Please allow me to say that I am sorry if I offended you but we will all have to stand before God someday to give an account for all we do and my duty is tell you the truth and I am saddened to see that what matters to you is more important than what matters to God.  That shows that if you were to die you would have no certainty of whether you would go to heaven or hell.  I will pray you make the right decision. I will not reply again unless you want me to.  Thank you for your question.

Julie:  That doesn’t mean I’m gonna go to hell though. But yeah we will all have to answer to God one day. We will all stand alone and answer to him. And what God wants does matter to me A LOT.  Thank you very much…but aren’t you judging me?  Hello!…staying the night with a boyfriend I don’t think that’s a big deal…everything’s a sin.  Living, breathing is a sin.. Being on earth is a sin. NO ONE IS PERFECT.  You’re not perfect and I bet you have a wife don’t you?  I bet you stayed with your girlfriend once before or your girl stayed with you.  Don’t tell me you didn’t. Because you probably did. And don’t tell me that I’m gonna go to hell if I stay the night… I don’t know where I’m going…..but for your information that’s not very nice and very good Christian to tell me that ill go to hell….

Me:  No, I am not perfect but I am married and so I can spend the night with my wife because the Bible doesn’t prohibit it but I did not live with her or spend the night with her before we got married.  You said everything is a sin?  Really?  No, reading your Bible is not, worshiping God is not wrong, asking for God’s blessing is not wrong.  I am not perfect but I don’t want to put my feelings or what I want over what God says in His Word.  Does this make sense Julie?  I never said you are going to hell…I am only trying to warn you that if you are not truly saved and you live with you boyfriend then you may not really be a Christian for Christians do not do things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches.  Of course I am not sinless but when I do sin, I immediately repent of it and confess it to God and stop.

Conclusion

A couple can live together and not have sex but if they are tempted by having such a close relationship and seeing one another at times and that lusting in their heart is equal to adultery of the heart (Matt 5:28).  It would be nearly impossible to not be tempted or lust in one’s heart when they must share living rooms, kitchens, and bathrooms together.  Sooner or later there will be opportunities to see someone in a compromising situation, partially undressed or even share the bathroom at the same time.  Whether there is sex or not, living together is clearly sin because it gives the appearance of evil and we are to be above reproach and be an example for the church.   Excusing one’s lifestyle because it feels right is putting yourself at great risk for the disciplining hand of God and God is angered when we justify our sins by rationalizing them.  This is a sin of presumption.  They presume that God would not care but most certainly He does care and no sin ever goes unpunished or without consequences. They have every reason to fear and fear is the beginning of wisdom but if they have no fear of sin they may not be saved.

I have even had an older couple ask me that if they lived together and had no sex, would this be sin? They say that they loved one another but didn’t want to get married because if they did, they could only receive one Social Security check instead of the two they receive now.  I told this couple that the Biblical command to abstain from every appearance of evil applied to them just as much as if they were in their 20’s.  What is sad to me is that they say they believe in God.  God Who created the universe and everything in it from nothing and raised Christ from the dead yet they don’t trust Him enough to take care of their financial needs if they got married on a fixed income.

For those who have no fear, the opposite may be true.  A person living in sin who claims to be a Christian may have great doubts about their salvation even though God has not given us a Spirit of fear but of love (2 Tim 1:7) and perfect love casts out fear (1 John 4:18) but if a person thinks that they are a Christians and does not live like one, then they most certainly have good reason to doubt their salvation (1 John 3).  If they value what they think or believe over and against what God says in His Word, then that person shows no evidence of conversion and they may not actually be saved.  I would never give someone assurance of their salvation if they exhibit no desire to be obedient to God’s Word, to live a life of holiness and purity, to strive to grow in grace and knowledge and to place their desires over what God says.  They are seeking first their own agenda and not the Kingdom (Matt 6:33).  God help them to see that their eternal future is so terrible that I cannot even describe it with words (Rev 20:11-15).  If you know someone like this warn them (Jude 1:23) before it is too late.  God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).  The literal translation is that God is at war with the proud.  May you have the peace of God instead of the wrath of God abiding in you.

I never heard back from “Julie” and still think about her from time to time.  I pray she became convicted of her living with her boyfriend.  Even if she doesn’t have sex, the opportunities there and the temptation there may be too great for her to control herself.  Even if they don’t have sex and lust after one another, Jesus said that is the same as adultery.  Besides, they should be abstaining from every appearance of evil for as I said, it hurts the witness of Christ, the church and of God particularly since they she said she is a Christian.  I pray she is right.

Related Post: Christian Advice Before Marriage

Resources: New International Version Bible (NIV) THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide

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{ 112 comments… read them below or add one }

DocReits December 5, 2013 at 9:39 am

Good counsel Jack,

It is so hard, as a young person especially, to fight against the hormones that God gave us. Our culture unfortunately is seeing less and less of marriage and more of “trying each other out” before the knot is tied.

I agree with everything you said, and therefore I believe it is best to ask God to help us stay pure as Christians or else to marry. I gave in to marriage as a teenager because I got frustrated fighting the hormones…;-)

Presently, in this day, it is more difficult to marry as a teenager because of the higher cost of living with even both husband and wife working. Our culture makes what you have presented even more difficult at this time. That does not change God’s commandments it just makes for a greater need for His Grace and mercy.

Thank you for presenting a relevant topic for discussion.

DocReits

Reply

Jack Wellman December 5, 2013 at 9:43 am

Thank you my friend. I know that this is what the culture accepts as “normal” but what seems right to a man is an abomination to God and I have counseled over this issue, time and time again, and it seems that Christians just don’t get it. I get a lot a persecution, from Christians no less, over counseling men and women not to live together before marriage. What the say is true: What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.

Amen that God’s commandments don’t change, just as God doesn’t, to which we can be thankful for Doc.

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Renata Anderson December 7, 2013 at 3:53 pm

I am not surprised you get a lot of “persecution”. Maybe it’s not your message but your attitude. Your pride shines bright and clear in your calloused stance, then posting about it to prove how Biblical you are.

It doesn’t matter if you were technically right. Instead of lovingly helping this girl to understand, and empathizing with her pain and confusion, you hit her repeatedly over the head as if the Bible was a two-by-four. Wouldn’t it be better to lovingly teach her, pray for her, and let the Holy Spirit be responsible for changing her attitude?

It’s also ridiculous to use the “avoiding the appearance of sin” argument. In today’s world, it is perfectly common for a man and a women to live together as platonic roommates, and does not necessarily draw judgment from the world (unlike from Christians who can’t wait to judge others). By your logic, no two men should live together as roommates (or two females either) because the world might be prone to believing they are homosexuals. Avoiding the appearance of evil is tricky because in this fallen world nearly everything can be seen as evil depending on who is doing the seeing.

While I believe you are basically correct that most unmarried men and women should not live together as it would prove a temptation, I believe you are wrong in stating it so dogmatically, and so callously. “In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity.” The Bible mandates sexual purity, but beyond that, to declare additional restrictions categorically is overstepping your bounds.

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cecil July 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm

I ended my 3 year live-in relationship with my American BF (unbeliever) yesterday. It hurts really hurts but i recommitted my life to Jesus again and i want to be under his covering to be blessed again. Your message reaffirmed my wide decision. Thank you very much. Salamat.

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Jack Wellman July 8, 2015 at 9:29 am

I am so glad for you Cecil. I would also talk to your pastor about this and tell him what you’ve decided to do. Today, I believe the angels are rejoicing over your repentance. If you read 1st John chapter 3 you can see that no one can claim to be a Christian and still be living in sin. You did the right think.

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cecil September 10, 2015 at 2:02 am

Dear Sir,
When I recommitted my life to the Lord last May 05, the next day my American BF was deported back to U.S. God really moves in mysterious way. He is alive! He brought my confidence back and I am now a member of our Church Usher Ministry. He also blessed my career as well.

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DocReits December 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm

Hey Renata,

“Wouldn’t it be better to lovingly teach her, pray for her, and let the Holy Spirit be responsible for changing her attitude?’

That’s a plan for her destruction. It will do no good to change her “attitude” if she is still in Adam. She needs her heart changed not her attitude.

Julie is most likely not a Christian from her many statements including, “I don’t know where I’m going…..but for your information that’s not very nice and very good Christian to tell me that ill go to hell….”

Jack “taught” her what the Bible says, and he stated that he was praying for her. The girl obviously wished to have sex with her boy friend and wanted Pastor Jack to wave his scepter of blessing over her sinful desires.

Her heart was crying out for a justification to sin, by using the weathered “tell” of accusing those who state God’s Word as being “not very nice and (not a) very good Christian”.

Conviction is conviction. Would Pastor Jack have been kinder to say ,

“Well Julie, you just do what feels right for you; and, I believe God will understand. After all, He is a God of forgiveness and mercy and love, and if you really love your boyfriend God will understand, because, after all, ….God is love”. That was a really great impersonation of Joel Osteen and, unfortunately, many more who call themselves Christian.

Does that pretty much cover “empathizing with her pain and confusion” ? I call it “loving her to hell”.

Our culture hates Christians because of our stand on many issues….including, at this present time, gay marriage and abortion. Our culture would like us to couch our stand with warm fuzzy’s like I stated above.

Are we kinder and more empathetic by stating the cold truth, in love, and bringing the weight of the Law which is written on our hearts to bear, resulting in the Holy Spirit’s conviction or do we give folks some watered down pablum of the world to assuage that conviction and deliver them over to a lost eternity?

Are we “loving” the world to hell? Are we afraid of rejection and being hated when we show people their lost condition? My contention is that people have to know by being shown(told) that they are lost, before they will see their need for the Savior. I believe most Christians are afraid of “the telling”, because we will be rejected, marginalized, seen as haters, and yes, not “empathetic”, to use your word.

Unfortunately “telling the truth” in any manner…just saying in any inflection what the Bible says, is deemed intolerant, bigoted, and/or hateful and is thus used to marginalize Christians and relegate them to the back shelf labeled “antiquated imbeciles”. The enemy uses this with such great success. Look at how the gay right’s movement has silenced most of the pulpits in America and the world regarding the same.

The reality is that the world needs to hear the Gospel. We must not give them this false notion that God has a wonderful plan for their lives. The destiny of our souls, the moment we are conceived is hell, because we are conceived in Adam(sin). That is the truth that must be given in love. It sounds so unloving though doesn’t it?…and hence our reluctance to mention it…

God sent Jesus to rescue us from this lost condition. Are we the calloused ones because we are unwilling to shout this reality to our neighbors? Are we aiding and abetting the enemy of our souls by “waiting” for a more convenient time to tell them…like one minute after they die? It sounds right to “allow the Holy Spirit to convict them”, but doesn’t God’s Word tell us to proclaim the Gospel so that they will HEAR the Gospel…. so that the Holy Spirit can work?

I admit it is a strange mystery why God chose us to be His mouth piece in the proclamation of His Gospel. God can audibly speak to anyone. So we could somehow wrongly use that as an excuse to never share the unbeliever’s plight with them. The reality, though, like it or not, is that He chooses the redeemed to be His mouth piece.

My suspicion is that Pastor Jack raised conviction in your soul. He does in mine. I need to share, in love, with everyone I can, the fact that we are all going to hell. The only way we can escape is to accept the only way out of here alive(eternally)…and that is through belief in the Savior.

Renata, have you ever pondered that word… “Savior” or Jesus…why is He called that? Its not because He has a wonderful plan for our life…It’s because His work was to SAVE us…from hell….are we loving enough to share that?

Blessings,

DocReits

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Jack Wellman December 8, 2013 at 9:48 pm

Doc, I really am thankful for your words. I do a lot of counseling and I try to stay true to what the Word of God teaches and sometimes it is not well accepted but understand that you have touched on the most oft reason for that…that we like to justify our sins so that we can soothe our conscience and that is something that I am not willing to do. I believe the conscience is necessary but like a callous, if sin continues, we lose that sensitivity and we become hardened because sin is deceitful in its cumulative effects. I thank God for your support my friend. There are few believers who will stand with what is sometimes not popular but who cares if I am popular or not…what I do care is what God says. You have been a God-send to me this year and that’s one thing that I thank God for…for you….and I express it here and now and in my prayers to God. I thank God and I thank God for you.

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steve broome February 2, 2015 at 6:00 pm

I want to say first Jesus us a just GOD. And if the young,
Lady repent of her sin but wait she and we must stop that,
Same sin then he will indeed forgive her. The pastor told this
Lady exactly what she should have heard. You countered this
Person’s idea of the lackadaisical way the bible says we are to live. If we look for loopholes or escapes to accommodate,
The true living word of Christ we are destined to his just
JUDGEMENT! Please as a nation teach your young the true,
Word of Christ Jesus! His atonement for our sins all of our sins. Thank GOD for those who love Jesus and the one they,
Face in his word to tell them the whole truth and will of our,
Lord and master. As it’s hard for the sinner to except the
Truth.So is it hard to tell the sinner what GOD says is wrong,
In there life.But do we hurt there feeling or condemn them,
To eternity in he’ll? MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL!

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A. Bertaioli December 17, 2013 at 9:47 pm

Thanks so much for this article! I just stumble on this website and I already feel so blessed by it!
I will be teaching my bible group about purity in January and I knew I wanted to be as open as possible to share REAL truth with the young girls I know, because so many times the “church” just wants to be “nice and polite” about it, and ends up ruining so many precious lives and relationships due to their “niceness”!

blessings,

a.b.

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Jack Wellman December 17, 2013 at 9:56 pm

Wow, what an encouragement this comment of yours was. I see that many have started out this relationship being “plutonic” but temptation took over and sin quickly followed. I know you will probably catch some resistance to this but imagine what God thinks about such arrangements and we know He would not be pleased as we’re to live a holy life, above reproach and above looking like sin.

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Mark Sproles December 23, 2013 at 11:03 pm

Great article Mr. Wellman. How are the youth today ever going to make it through with all of the mixed signals being portrayed in the media and world at large.
Mark

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Jack Wellman December 24, 2013 at 9:14 am

Great to hear from you Mr. Sproles and thank you sir for your comment and question. I believe that today’s youth must keep their eyes upon Jesus and upon the Word of God for Jesus said that “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15). Love for God is displayed by a desire and willingness to obey what His Word, the Bible, says. If they keep their eyes on the media, then they will cave into their own lustful desires.

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Uven Bunsee February 11, 2014 at 5:52 am

Dear Pastor thank you for the example. it illustrates many matters for me. I would like some clarity please, in the old testament, and i can’t recall it now, where the man, ‘knew’ the woman and then married her. It did not put any order in how this should happen. i would also like the exact scriptural reference please that directs us to be apart until marriage, otherwise we appear as pharisees and saducees, following ritual and acting according the Law and condenming ourselves which is a great sin. thank you, UB

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Jack Wellman February 11, 2014 at 8:11 am

My friend, if you are needing the Old Testament verse which says that the man knew the woman and then married her you’re going to be disspointed. If a man “knew” (had sex) with a woman they were not married to, they were stoned to death. Do you really need a Bible verse to show you that living together without being married is not sin? Have you spoken with your pastor about this? What would your parents say? Have you spoken to your pastor or your parents about this? Do you really in your heart feel it is not sin? Know this, we will all stand before God to give an account someday and you and your “live-in” girlfriend will have to explain to Christ someday. I Thess 5:22 says “Abstain from all appearances of evil.” If you are worried that we are being to much like a “Pharisee” and Matt 5:20 is a warning to you and everyone my friend that “I warn you–unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!” Do you think the Pharisee’s would do such a thing? No! And your called to live a holy life and your righteousness must exceed that of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees so if you still insist on living together apart from marriage, I wash my hands of this because you have been told my friend.

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Sonja March 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm

This situation has been on my mind for weeks. My boyfriend and I have been living together for 2 years and are now transitioning to become a Christian. I couldn’t understand the change in him and noticed that he was sleeping on the couch every night. He also pulled away each time I wanted to have him come back to bed or just by laying beside him on the couch. I became frustrated and would think he was cheating or something. Until I came across this online, I now understand why.

We still live together and are planning on moving into another apartment. Due to finances, I nor him can’t afford to move in separate homes, especially me. Having 2 small kids (from previous relationships), no family to depend on, and a very low income… I really need his support.

I love him so much and he has made a major change in his life to show he wants to work this out. By us going back to church every chance we get, he wants us to stop living in sin and wants to marry me soon. I wish to marry now and to have a wedding that I always dreamed of next year.

My question to you is: “What should we do in the mean time??” There’s no date yet to go get married at the courthouse. And my feelings are making me frustrated by his space that he’s given me. Less talking, no attention towards me, not even a kiss. All these things are making me doubt our relationship together and it’s making me lose focus.

I was brought up in church so yes I know better to live like this. I just need to know what to do next.

Thanks

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Jack Wellman March 21, 2014 at 10:12 pm

Sonja, your boyfriend is right. You must stop now. Move out and have him help you if necessary. Are you more worried about making it financially or in obeying God and trusting in Him to provide for you? If you are more worried about finances than obeying God, then you will never be blessed by God and He will not allow it to get better. You are presently living in sexual immorality and I must warn you, this makes God angry for there are fewer sins than sexual immorality and any sex outside of marriage is grievous to God and I would recommend that if he loves you and you love him, get married. “No date to get married at the courthouse?” Doesn’t matter. If you are living in sin then you may have to question your being saved. There is no such thing in the Bible as “transitioning to become a Christian.” You are presently now saved or you are lost and if Christ would come back and find you in this situation, it would not go well (Rev 20:11-15). I am telling you this in love as a pastor. Get out, get saved, get married. Don’t wait.

Your boyfriend may actually be telling you in his own way that sex is sin in not being married. Please read this. You are either saved now or you are not so read this:
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/come-to-jesus/

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KJ July 30, 2014 at 7:15 pm

Hello Pastor Jack, it was very enlightening to read the article I just read. I am going through the same issue with my pastor.
He is a young pastor just starting his ministry and a single father of four. Not only is he my pastor, but a friend and co-worker as well.
He have recently opened his door to house a young lady because she was put out on the street. We work together too. She helps with his children, cooks, clean and help in the church, which too me is alright because she is just being graceful. RIGHT!
Only a few people knows (according to him) the young lady is living in his house in a different room with his children and now he has expressed he want to marry her after only 5 months of her living there. They hung out a lot at work and I heard rumors about their relationship, but pastor said “they’re just friends”
Now I have expressed my concerns about this issue, but he says there nothing wrong with living in the same house (under different circumstances) if they’re living in separate rooms. I was confused and up-set because it took a long time for me to worship with any church and now I my feelings betrayed. I don’t have any problems with them dating but do it the right way. Not living a lie.
I expressed to my pastor that I don’t think it is a good idea for her to continue to live in the same dwelling if he plans on marrying this young lady. Remember I said he took her out the street because she was homeless. He assured me he had no feelings, but now the feelings are emerging.
This past Sunday (7-27-14) I talked with the pastor about my feelings, but he keep reassuring me it was ok. In order to keep this relationship going he wants to assign an assistant pastor to his newly found ministry (but the overseer) while he continue his courtship.
I’m trying not to judge and continue attending worship service but it is hard knowing in the back of my mind I feel it is wrong. Am I over reacting?
He preached that he was chosen to pastor, will God show him this is wrong? His Bishop advised him not to get an assistant and keep preaching and just marry this young lady and all is well.
Oh by the way did I mention he 35 with 4 kids and she just turned 20. I age is just a number, but raising 4 kids ages 12 to 6 is a job it self, let alone becoming a wife.
Am I wrong for thinking that? Sorry, I know this is a lot, but this is heavy on my mind. Thank you for your time. Do I need to found a new church or should I keep on supporting my pastor and his decision?

Reply

Jack Wellman July 30, 2014 at 8:09 pm

KJ, thank you so much sir for your question and you have every right to be concerned. What happened to his wife? Where did she go? Did he divorce her? Was he married and then she left, divorced, or passed away? ! Thess 5:22 says that believers are to “Abstain from all appearance of evil” so even if there is nothing going on, the appearance of this unmarried man living together with an unmarried woman gives the appearance of being sinful. The fact is, if they live together long enough, their relationship is called a “Common Law Marriage” so even by the world’s system, they would be considered married by their living relationship. Think about the neighbors who are not Christian. Imagine what they think!? Can you imagine them thinking or talking about this to other non-believers “Say, did you know that man is a pastor and he is living with a young woman. Wow…and he’s supposed to be a Christian. The shame of it.” See what I mean? He brings shame to the name of Christ and blasphemes God by his ungodly appearance. The rumors are evidence of this already happening. The Bible says that a pastor is to be “above reproach”. 1 Tim 3:1-4 ”Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer (same thing as a pastor) desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer is to BE ABOVE REPROACH faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner WORTHY OF FULL RESPECT.” Is this woman even saved? Is she born again? If not, he is now breaking another teaching about not being unequally yoked with unbelievers too!

He also said that he preached that he was chosen to pastor? Chosen by who? God? There is actually a 3-fold confirmation that is biblical which you can read about here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2014/07/14/how-to-become-a-pastor-7-important-steps/ on how a pastor is called. That is now how I was called the way he describes it. My calling was like the link I provided.

fact that his bishop told him it was okay and just to marry this young lady is wrong too. Can a pastor that has been divorced remarry? NO! He is disqualified. I would find another church my friend. You are right to see that something was not right. Flee this church. Find another one that preaches Christ, the cross, repentance, confession of sin, and trust in Christ. Please don’t leave church altogether for we need believers like you who care enough to know what is right and wrong in churches. I would covet such as you in the church where I pastor at. Thank you, thank you, thank you for caring enough about the truth of God and about obedience in the Word of God. You have great discernment. You are exactly right.

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jason kent November 2, 2014 at 4:56 am

don’t agree with that, me and my girlfriend are both born again and have been together for 9 years and have been committed to each other for them 9 years. we have 2 children together, we can’t get married because of money, it would hurt us money wise and the children, don’t see how a piece of paper makes us more married then we our now, there was never no mention in the bible of a marriage cermony!

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Jack Wellman November 3, 2014 at 10:20 am

Thank you Mr. Kent for your comment. Did you know that the sexually immoral, that includes those who have sex outside of marriage, will not inherit the kingdom of God? that’s what the Bible says. You dont’ agree with me? I don’t care but you are disagreeing with what God says, not me! According to I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11: (1) Fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This term refers to those who engage in sexual activity which God has declared sinful. He has not declared all sexual activity. In fact, He condones and even encourages lawful sexual activity according to His design and purpose (I CORINTHIANS 7:2-4; HEBREWS 13:4). Fornication refers to sexual activity outside of the marriage relationship between a man and a woman. It would include premarital as well as extramarital sexual relationships of whatever duration from a one night stand to an ongoing affair. Such activity was rampant in first century Corinth. It is rampant today in our own society. But it matters not how commonly it is practiced, it is still unrighteous and it will keep one from entering heaven.” Read the book of 1 John because this book shows that those who claim to be Christians yet live in sin without stopping are not saved at all. You worry more about your finances and money over obeying God showing you don’t trust Him enough to provide for you. God declares, not me, that “the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.” (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11). The spiritual and moral environment of the first century city of Corinth was extremely unhealthy. Out of this culture, which had seen its prime and under the crushing weight of further moral decline would one day destroy itself, men and women answered the call of the gospel. They sought purpose for their lives; they sought a better way; they sought an eternal and abiding hope. They found it in Christ Jesus. Even if their city and culture would shortly lie in ruins, they would live forever.

And those who fail to enter the Kingdom of God are:

“And nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it (the holy city, new Jerusalem – J.Q.), but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.” (REVELATION 21:27). Paul had given a list of things which, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, he termed “unrighteous” and said that those who practice such things “shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” But if one is engaged in such activity, all is not lost. There are steps to take to remedy the situation. We’ll discuss that later.

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TonyE November 5, 2014 at 9:34 am

It’s impossible to live above reproach, I agree with this idea in principle but no real flawed human can accomplish this…ie, Your a Christian that eats too much, associates with sinners, dresses inappropriately, doesn’t take enough exercise… you get the idea! And most men, if they are honest will look at women with lets say a certain type of attraction… If you are not committing and practicing willful sin, and your conscience does not condemn you, then have faith in Gods loving forbearance.

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Jack Wellman November 5, 2014 at 1:34 pm

Thank you Tony E. Am I misunderstanding you sir? Are you saying that its okay to live in sin together and have sex outside of marriage? Please forgive my dullness of understanding because it could be my not understanding what you are saying sir. I do agree that none of us can live a sinless life but if someone is living in such state of living together outside of marriage, the Bible says that they will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven (Eph 5; Gal 5; 1 Cor 6).

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Jatoria little November 30, 2014 at 1:17 pm

I am living proof that it is possible! My boyfriend and I lived together for about 3 years during our college years. We were living in sin and following the worlds system of doing things. My boyfriend was born again, but he became a lost sheep during his college life and I was not born again at all! Last year around this time I gave my life to Christ and my boyfriend started his journey of building his relationship closer with The Lord. Needless to say once that happen everything changed we stopped looking at everything with our natural eyes and began to see with out spiritual eyes! First, we decided to become celibate until marriage. Next, we moved in separate houses because of the temptation that comes with living together, and we didn’t want to give the enemy any room to mess up what God’s plans were for us. This was not an easy process, but Gods Grace was with us every step of the way. I stop relying on myself, and started to rely on Jesus for my financial needs. He is faithful and he will never leave nor forsake you. I’m still currently living by myself because we are not Married, and God is awesome because he provides my every need. As a Christian I fully believe that you can’t pick and choose what you want to follow from the Bible, but if you are an ambassadors for Christ you follow what the word says fully because that is our only truth and it is the way of life. If you don’t belive you can do something like this just try it and see what God does in your obedience to walk out on faith. My life is a continuing testimony, and I am so blessed and thankful I was able to share this with you. Remember we are not capable to do anything, but we have the power to do everything with Christ in us! If you are born again and you think living under the same house is okay then you have to start renewing your mind to think like Christ, so that our will matches up with His will.
Love you guys

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Melissa January 25, 2015 at 1:53 am

I have been saved years ago but fell away from him for a long time and turned my back on him but after the struggles I’ve had with my son and the miracle of his recovery I have finally come back to God and recommitted myself to doing his will I have been in a ten year relationship with my sons dad we live together and had our son two years ago we aren’t married he isn’t saved but says he believes there’s a God I know I’m doing wrong by not being married but I also know has the been saved either so what is the right thing I need to do I know we should be married but since he’s not saved what does God want me todo by the bible please help I’m torn on what is right I want to do what is right by God

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Jack Wellman January 25, 2015 at 1:41 pm

Thank you Melissa for your question. I am glad you want to do what is right by God and living with someone whom you are not married to is sin but you probably already know that from what you wrote but neither are we to marry an unbeliever. Yes, you ex might believe there’s a God but so do the demons and that doesn’t mean they’re saved. You must move out, date only Christians and so you are in a place where God is waiting to see if you love Him more than your convienience of living together. Jesus said in Matthew 10:37-39 “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” We are to seek His kingdom over what we want (Matt 6:33). Don’t marry an unsaved person and don’t live with a person who you’re not married too. The Bible is clear on this. Talk to your pastor and he should tell you the same thing.

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DocReits January 25, 2015 at 3:27 pm

Hi Pastor Jack,

Do you ever wonder what the Samaritan woman did in her relationship with the sixth man she was living with(John 4). It appears she became a believer in Jesus as Messiah.

I have always wondered whether she ended her relationship with her live-in, whether he became a believer or if she just kept living with him, in sin.

Tough love and good counsel in your reply to Melissa. I pray for her in this difficult position/decision with her son.

God bless both of you,

DocReits

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Jack Wellman January 25, 2015 at 4:32 pm

Doc…what a great question. I would think this woman indeed did leave that relationship and expect to see her in the kingdom. I was once asked by the some church members who said that they didn’t think they could evangelize the lost without training but I said, this woman (formerly?) of ill repute went back to her village and told them all to come and see a Man Who told me all that I ever did…and I believe she helped in the salvation of all her townspeople. No doubt that she became an evangelist and had zero training. The only thing she knew in her heart that she had found the Messiah and could not help but tell others. Training is fine, yes, but the main thing is to have a heart for the lost and care enough about their eternal destiny to tell others how they might be saved. Let’s both join in for praying for this woman who is at a cross roads…Mellisa, we care and are praying for you. Thank you Doc. You’re such a good friend.

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Ella February 23, 2015 at 2:26 pm

Will it be a sin then, to stay at my Godfather’s (who’s over 50 but not married) just because I need a place to stay for a half term break etc. as I go to boarding school?
Also, what if I have a fear for commitments because of what I’ve experienced or have seen in my family (my parents’ relationship)? For me, it’s very hard to have faith in people or to trust easily. Of course I do hope that some day I will find ‘the right man’ for myself who will love me and I him. But what if I don’t? Yet I don’t want to be lonely for the rest of my life living on my own while all my sisters and girl friends are married?

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Jack Wellman February 23, 2015 at 2:31 pm

Ella thank you for your question and comment. You are not responsible for someone else’s sin so don’t worry about it since you have a family relationship with this man. As long as you stay in separate rooms and use separate bathrooms and you are likely the age of his granddaughter, right? Anyway, you sound young and have all of your life ahead of you. Most often you’ll find a godly man in church, perhaps the one you attend right now. If all your sisters and girlfriends marry now but then some of them later divorce, wouldn’t it be better to wait to find the man that would be best for you? Surely He would. Maybe this biblically based article can help you for now called True Love: How do you know when you find it at: http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/true-love-how-do-you-know-when-you-find-it/

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lalla March 4, 2015 at 8:57 am

Hello Pastor Jack! You really helped me today.
Today started in a very bad way. I ve been going trough emotional break downs due to insatisfaction, fear, lack of faith and worries. I started reading this article cos I was googling over premarital sex…and when I read the answers you gave to that young lady, I honestly disliked your attitude (I honestly said to myself…this is why I don’t like all these pastors…always criticizing as if they are the owner of the truth). I initially agreed with the lady that said that you should have been more gentle in advicing her. But as I went on reading, I realized that your attitude was absolutely right! The one of someone that wants you to do the right thing without coating it with sugar.
The more I was reading your answers, the more I realized of how much I need someone that speaks the way you do, your bluntness is amazing and constructive. After reading your conversion testimony / life story, I was amazed and felt ashamed for how quickly I judged you as a Moralist.
I went on reading your articles and guess what? the anger, bitterness and sadness that was in me graduay disappeared (for today). I know that Im very far from achieving happiness, also because I am not a steady christian (in the sense that I easily fall back and whenever I make little progress, I disappoint God, vanishing everything and then it takes me ages to feel that I can approach God again). I feel miserable and unworthy and blame all that happened and is happening to me to the fact that Im a dirty sinner.
I really need your prayers and words. Im tired of this aituation and I know that i am the only one responsible. I know Inshould rely on God but I jist feel in stuck in the mud.
Please pray for me. God bless you.

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Jack Wellman March 4, 2015 at 9:12 am

I most certainly will pray for you Lalla. I think we all disappoint God many times, myself of course included. I do hope you will keep in touch to see what happens in your life and with God’s Spirit, you can do all things thru Christ Who Himself will strengthen you my friend. Don’t give up…God is not finished with you or me yet.

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Surrendered January 13, 2016 at 10:40 am

This is a quote out of Watchman Nee book The Normal Christian Life. “But I want to ask myself: Am I really seeking the way into the presence of God by the blood or by something else? What do I mean when I say “by the blood”? I mean simply that I recognize my sins, that I confess that I have need of cleansing and of atonement, and that I come to God on the basis of the finished work of the Lord Jesus. I approach God through His merit alone and never on the basis of my attainment—never, for example, on the ground that I have been extra kind or patient today, or that I have done something for the Lord this morning. I have to come by way of the blood every time.”

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Marie March 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm

Hi Pastor, I have gone over this issue for some time and wonder why most Churches and Pastors completely ignore Matthew 19:9
“And I say unto you, whosoever Divorces his wife, EXCEPT for fornication and marrys another commits Adultery.” According to this verse there are MILLIONS of Divorced & re- married couples living in Adultery who were married by the Church! I’ve have yet to hear about a Church that refuses to marry someone because of this verse. I do believe God has good reasons for being so strict on Divorce and re-marriage but society & the Church seems to have completely overlooked this sin. Marriage is a holy covenant, meant to last a lifetime and in Gods eyes is NOT broken unless a spouse dies or commits Adultery. It is not a contract as most see it as easily made void by the state because of any reason. I wish I’d had the faith in God to restore my own marriage at the time but I too divorced over 14 yrs ago because of a verbally abusive alcoholic husband that drug me to the pits of his despair during our 15 yr marriage. I had just enough self confidence left to go to an Attorney and file for Divorce. Our 2 kids are now grown, I went through years of loneliness and financial hardship. During the last 3 yrs I have been in a “strictly platonic” relationship with a gentleman of 62 yrs of age, I am 55. We didn’t start out celebrate but agreed that this is the life we wish to lead for Christ. We have no lustful feelings for each other EVER,(I feel God has help us both with this) we don’t share the same bathroom nor see each other naked. We do share the same King bed but never touch. There is no sex in heaven, I just look at this as preparing for the “real world” to come! I have told a handful of family and friends about our platonic relationship because I know how people like to make “assumptions and judge!” We are very happy and content in this relationship, we never fight argue, we have total respect for one another and a ton of trust!. We laugh and say “sex is so overrated!” lol My question is…………….. If we were to separate and date for companionship, would not society “assume and judge” us to be having a sexual relationship also? If its a sin to “LOOK” as though something is happening when its in fact not, then when does society actually NOT assume? Is it ONLY when someone is completely single without dating?

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Jack Wellman March 21, 2015 at 6:31 pm

Thank you Marie and I agree that most churches don’t even bring this up, partially because they don’t want to convict people’s conscience even though the Word of God is supposed to convict, rebuke, exhort, and discern our deepest thoughts. You cannot help what society assumes and misjudges you both falsely for having a sexual relationship. If we are to be good witnesses for Christ, we must deny ourselves. Jesus said that whoever follows after me must take up their cross and follow Him and that means dying to self and if you are desiring to have companionship, that is fine, but why can’t you live separately and still have companion ship? Have you ever spoken with your own pastor about this? If so, what did he say and if not, why not? It may not be sin but if it looks like sin, then that is their fault and you are not responsible for what they believe. As for your last two questions “then when does society actually NOT assume?” and “Is it ONLY when someone is completely single without dating?” could you rephrase that. I may be a little slow so I’m not getting your correctly and it’s probably my fault. Thank you.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 12:40 am

Sorry Marie…but sharing a bed with a male friend (and others knowing about it) is really pushing the envelope. You are near enough in age for others to presume the worst. As a matter of fact, your ages are not even the issue…if you slept in that bed with a 80 year old MALE friend, eyebrows would raise as well. Is there a reason that you cannot sleep in a different bedroom?

What we are to be concerned about is mostly how other Christians would see our actions assuming that they know Scripture…non believers will find fault in everything anyway…but this sharing the same bed as large as it may be looks to other Christians like you are drifting over the “lines”. Since you both say that “sex is overrated” and refrain from it…then couldn’t you say the same thing about sleeping in the same bed…and stop doing it also?

Just saying.

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Marie April 15, 2015 at 2:16 pm

I appreciate your comment Rowenda but I don’t see where sleeping in separate beds would be any different, Unless we told everyone who entered the house that we did so. We have told a handful of family, kids and friends of our platonic relationship. He works nights and doesn’t get to bed until 6 am many days. I get up at 7 or 8 so its not even like we sleep together, everyone who knows us, knows his schedule. On weekends he basically keeps the same sleep schedule. Just for the sake of proving how the society we live in judges & makes assumptions. What would you or anyone reading this think If I said that I was in a relationship with a gentleman for the past 5 yrs but we don’t live together? Would you assume there is no sex involved just because we don’t live together? People will assume no matter what the situation is. This is why I tell everyone who matters of our platonic relationship.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 5:58 pm

We who read your story are assuming that you and he are getting a great deal of emotional comfort living in this kind of arrangement…like pretending to be married w/o benefits. This goes well beyond a simple platonic friendship…would you have this same sleeping arrangement with one of your girl friends…or would he share the same bed with one of his male friends and assume that others would think nothing is wrong there? Men and women simply do NOT live together and share the same bed unless they WANT (or dont care) if others think they are being sexual. When a man and woman in a close relationship move into the same house and sleep in the same bed, give me a break! What WOULD anyone with half a brain tied behind their backs THINK?? This appears as if you both are “tempting” other Christians and challenging society as a whole with no regard for how you appear…it looks very rebellious. The Lord does not want anything that is so EASY to conclude as being “the appearance of evil”. You know also, if this were not an issue in your spirit, you would not even be bringing up the question for opinion yes?

A hundred years ago, people could rent out rooms in their house (like a hostel or boarding house), and nothing was thought to be immoral going on UNLESS and UNTIL there were an obvious relationship on some level with two of the “renters” of a different gender…that is, when two people started going to each others room and sleeping or spending the night there. Then they would become the newest scandle in town.

I do not believe the Lord would direct a woman to rent from or live with a man who sleeps in the same bed as she does! You have a close relationship with this person which has excluded both of you from dating others…so THAT is what makes it look “suspect” also…besides actually sleeping together. It looks quite sneaky and gives rise to too many questions from others regarding your Christian character and testimony.

I also see that you started off this relationship being sexual? Did I misunderstand this? And then decided to repent by stopping the sex…but still want the physical closeness? Please do explain if you would…I may have misunderstood.

Also, I do not believe you should put yourself in situations like this which causes you to have to keep giving explanations for this…if you have to explain sleeping in the same bed or room to others, then already that is a BIG hint that something falls under the “appearance of evil”…or another verse, “even a HINT of sexual immorality”.

You still have not answered the question…why are you even sleeping in the same bedroom let alone in the same bed? Is there no other room in the house? Why dont you care how this appears to others?

To answer your question. Yes, I would assume that if you were in a relationship/dating a man for 5 years, AND that IF you were NOT spending the night in each others home, and I knew you were both devout Christians, I would naturally think that you were NOT having sex and carefully preserving your Christian image. The thing here is this: NOT SPENDING THE NIGHT OR LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE…this is what crosses the line into “a hint of sexual immorality” or “appearance of evil” unless the house has very separate quarters and private entries…and you are simply renting it and NOT having a “comfort” relationship that includes sleeping together.
Now, what would the “world” presume? Probably everything across the map because EVERYTHING is highly sexualized now days…

Practicing living in the new heavens?…where there is neither male nor female? Well, you are still on earth where there IS male and female, and THIS is why the Lord tells us to watch our behavior, down to the “appearances of evil” and “hints” of sexual immorality.

I have gotten myself into a much worse situation than what you are toying around with…but am now discovering the way of repentance. So you can just ignore my comments if you like since I have no room to talk.

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Marie April 15, 2015 at 10:05 pm

Well I appreciate your input in my life Rowena. But It seems that there is a whole lot of speculations being made, which is typical of the society we live in, people like to assume without facts. We are not seeking physical closeness of any sort. We simply like each-others company and companionship. I will say we started out like most relationships, but have since developed into this celibacy which we both are completely comfortable with. We started out sleeping in the same bed so we still do, we just never have given it any thought to change. Yes, it seems like a marriage but we both know and feel ITS NOT. I take care of his daily needs, clean house, wash clothes, cook and run errands and he in some ways supports me. Neither of us do well living alone, it was extremely lonely for both of us. I honestly believe God brought us together for companionship. I can honestly say the Lord lead us to this lifestyle over months of prayer and asking for direction. We have very busy full lives with many farm animals to care for. He has many outdoor projects, works outside the home at night and I have a home business. We are 80% of the time doing our own thing but yet are fully in tune with each other. As far as sleeping in the same bed, we don’t think anything of it. We SLEEP! We don’t touch, ever! Most of our family and friends know of our platonic relationship so the ones who are making the assumptions are those as yourself reading into this post.

As far as your comment on my “what if we didn’t live in the same house but were in a relationship?”

It wouldn’t be any different. There isn’t a person in the world that would follow us around daily to know “IF” (as you say) whether we spent nights together or not. EVERYONE would make the same assumptions that we were, because we are in a relationship, Whether we are Christian or not, look what you did as Christian’s, people just assume the worst these days no matter who you are! Not my fault! I don’t think God’s intention was for millions of people to walk this earth totally alone and single because of their marital mistakes. But I do think we have an obligation to HIM and to make HIM first and foremost in our lives. If we still had sex, we would be thinking of ourselves and there would be no consideration for Him or His word.

The same scenario would have to be played out if we lived apart, we would have to “tell” everyone we know that we “were not” spending nights together, so there isn’t any difference in the 2 scenarios. What I see is a society who doesn’t want to believe that 2 people who care about each other can go without sex.

People will always speculate no matter what. If someone is in a relationship now days, they are in your words “giving the appearance of evil” whether one lives in the same house or not.

The reason for posting here in the first place was to get this Pastors opinion, as I have others. All have said, we are doing no harm. Jesus, did not condemn the woman at the well with 5 husbands and living with a man. I don’t find anywhere in the Bible where Jesus Condemned anyone! He didn’t even condemn the thief on the Cross with him. I know my God, he isn’t mad at me/us. I feel no condemnation in my heart. We are 2 individuals who care about each-other are active and healthy yet choose to be celibate for Christ because of Matthew 19:9 and live in the same home. For someone to say we are giving the appearance of evil without knowing our lifestyle is simply being judgmental and making false assumptions. Always remember that you will be judged by the same standard you judge others by.

Marie March 21, 2015 at 7:11 pm

Sure, I guess what I’m trying to ask or say is…(and its relating to 1 thess 5;22) “Abstain from all appearance of evil.”
Just when exactly does ANY relationship between a man & woman NOT look sexual? Sex is rampant these days, if someone speaks of dating someone they are assumed to be having sex without even living together. I don’t think I have ever attended a Wedding where I assumed the couple hadn’t already had sex. So how does the above scripture verse play into dating couples in this twisted society we live in today? The verse mentions “abstain from the appearance of evil” I’m not sure God is speaking of sex here. He created sex so why would he call it evil? Matthew 19:9 is HUGE for me, why is it not for the Church?

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Jack Wellman March 21, 2015 at 7:33 pm

Thanks Marie. I so agree that Matthew 19:9 is huge and I believe it is huge for church…at least the church I am pastor of and other churches I have attended previously, no, not all though. Yes, God does hate divorce but He loves divorced people and we can’t unscramble an egg for sure. You cannot assume at weddings that the couple had sex because if you read Romans 12 or is it 1 Cor 13 love gives people the benefit of the doubt. People shouldn’t assume they had sex. The context of 1 Thess 5:22 shows a general counsel of advice given to the church at Thessalonica and for all churches/Christians. A couple at a wedding doesn’t give the appearance of evil to me but just the opposite…one of holy matrimony. The “appearance of evil” covers anything that people might believe is evil. I don’t think people believe weddings are evil and what they did before the wedding is between them and God however if I knew that a couple was having sex before marriage and refused to repent and stop, I wouldn’t marry them! But for a couple to live together outside of wedlock society may well think they know what’s going on because that is what they assume. He created sex and no, it’s not evil except out of marriage then it is evil, right? God created volcanos too but we don’t go near them. Just because God created it doesn’t give us permission to see its okay whenever we think. God created marijuana and so because He created it, it’s okay?

In 1 Thess 5 God is speaking of ALL things that appear evil and that covers a lot of things because He used the word “ANY” and “ALL” things that appear evil. Have you spoken with your pastor about this, I ask again? What does he believe about this relationship of living together without being married?

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 12:27 am

Marie,
We have two neighbor women who live together in a large semi-divided house next door to us. The WHOLE neighborhood says they are lesbian! They are NOT. They are best friends, in their 60’s and do not want to get married (they already had been married in the past) but just want companionship having no husbands any more. When my 18 year old daughter lived with me after my divorce, she had to share my bed because my two sons had the only other bedroom. WE were accused of being lesbians by neighbors who knew that our house only had two bedrooms…we certainly are NOT…she is my daughter and welcome to sleep in my bed as long as she stops talking after midnight. 🙂 She eventually went on to get married and so did I.

However, if I were to share a house…say I rented a spare room/bathroom with a male homeowner near my age, you can BET that everyone would assume that we were probably having sex. This culture is so sexualized that you cant do anything that does not “appear evil” anymore. Best thing is to go to God and WAIT for HIS direction. You may not like the answer you get, but do what HE says anyway. I personally had to pass on rental rooms in homes that a men lived in years ago, simply because of what it “looked” like to others.

Same goes for anything…the way you dress, the way you entertain, seems like anything is up for critics…so I live very conservatively so as not to bring dishonor on my faith…even if I am indeed innocent.

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Tracy January 18, 2016 at 4:12 pm

Marie….you are not held responsible for what others think….you are held responsible for what YOU make OTHERS think. If people want to believe a relationship is sexual in nature just because 2 individuals are dating then that is on them and not you. That is THEIR judging what they do not know. However, if you are going to be living with the person you are in a relationship with but are not married to, then THAT is on you! You cause a stumbling block for other Christians. THAT is where it is deemed wrong in the eyes of the Lord.

IMHO, you are leaving comments and asking questions UNTIL you get the answer YOU want to hear and not what is actual biblical truth. You are treading in very deep water and, hopefully, you will realize the truth according to Christ before it is too late. I pray for the eyes of your heart to be opened. I have this conversation with my youngest daughter all the time because she does live with her boyfriend, sleep in the same bed, and everyone knows they are in a relationship and are having relations. It is not something that has to be told to people for them to know it! It is not the “world” that you cause a stumbling block to, but, the brothers & sisters in Christ. We are to “put of the old and put on the new” man we are in Christ. So, if that means living in a different house than your companion then that is what one needs to do. Trust Jesus with your financial troubles if that is why you are cohabitating.

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Marie March 21, 2015 at 7:55 pm

We have not spoken with any Pastor about our specific circumstances. We can’t seem to settle on one Church. We left one that we had attended for over 8 mo. because I didn’t agree with their “Halloween” celebration. But we wont open that bag of worms tonight.

I have asked one other pastor on-line. He actually divorced his 2nd wife after praying about Matthew 19:9, they had small children together. They both agreed that they were adulterers by remarrying so they Divorced and committed to be celibate and single for the rest of their lives. He told me that what others thought of our relationship didn’t matter. We were not living in sin. We are living pure lives for Christ and very happy and peaceful in doing so I may add.

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Jack Wellman March 21, 2015 at 8:09 pm

Okay, thank you for your comment.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 12:07 am

My husband and I went into our marriage as Christians adulterers according to what Scripture defines as adultery, and we are in our early 60’s. After reading the Bible through together, we now understand that we must repent…that is, not just “being sorry” but STOPPING the sexual component of our relationship. We do not know if we should get a lawful divorce as well, but we DO know we cannot share the house together any more. As a matter of fact, our property has a cottage on it several hundred feet from the main house.
One of us needs to move into that cottage (no problem for either of us…we will flip a coin) in order to “avoid the appearance of evil”. But is this enough? Do we actually NEED to get a Legal Divorce too (we are not opposed to this)? Can we remain platonic friends? Can we still run our business together?

Our former spouses have remarried believing that they were entitled because they were the “innocent spouses” due to our Adultery…and we have already confessed to them our sin and remorse…but they are now remarried and have no intentions of divorcing their spouses in order to reconcile with either of us. So this means that we must remain single for the rest of our lives.

Is there anything wrong with this plan of repentance? Should we sell our home and business, split everything and move further away? Neither of us is “tempted” or attracted to each other (any more) because of our sin. We want to do what is Biblical and want to reconcile with God on every level.

Please let me know what you think because our Pastor thinks we are crazy and to just “let things alone”…we disagree.

Thank you!

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 9:05 am

Thank you Rowena for your comment and question. You are legally married right, right? You committed sexual immorality outside of marriage before you were married but was this with each other? If so, then that was not adultery but sexual fornication but whatever the case, since you are legally married and you sinned before you were married, there is no reason to make as second mistake and divorce your husband. You cannot unscramble an egg. What is done is done. Have you ever spoken with your own pastor about this? I believe he would tell you the same thing. Getting a divorce and splitting everything up is not a solution. We are all sinners and there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. You have already asked God to forgive you, right? Then accept that forgiveness and believe it (1 John 1:9). I would not get a legal divorce and I believe you can both not only run your business together but there is no reason to get a divorce. Our Savior is always greater than our sin.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 10:33 am

No. We were married to other spouses and committed adultery with each other, divorced our other spouses, and then got married ten years ago…ALL WHILE BEING PROFESSING CHRISTIANS. So you see, some kind of repentance is long over due.

In addition to all this, my husband still has tendencies to lust, flirt and fantasize after other women, has gotten wrapped up in Porn (he finally did repent of that one), 6 months ago he started a private “friendship” with another woman (which the Lord actually revealed to me and I insisted he stop…he did). So with all this, even if we stayed married, there is an ongoing lack of his understanding about what constitutes sexual immorality that causes me great suffering. We are reading the Bible every night together (for the last three months), and he does seem to “get” the concept of heart purity and holiness. But is this all that is needed for repentance? I do not want to die as an adulteress if I was supposed to remain single because of how this relationship started…are we “living in adultery”?
Please reread my original situation over and perhaps you will get a clearer picture regarding this okay?
Thanks

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 10:48 am

Oh, I see Rowena. Thank you. I do see why you say this now. I am sorry that I didn’t have a full understanding. I see that there are biblical grounds for divorce even though you and I know that it is God’s will not you both reconcile and not divorce but I see your husband is, even now, committing adultery and even if it’s in the heart. I don’t see much repentance in him though and that concerns me. If you read 1st John chapter 3 you’ll see why I say that. I don’t have concern for you because you see the seriousness of your sin and God promises to forgive us of all of our sins (1 John 1:9) but for him, I am very and in fact gravely concerned for his soul state. It sounds like there are no fruits bearing or showing real repentance in him but in you I do see it. I think you are fine but I have great concern for this husband of yours. I would move out and yes, a divorce seems to be biblical and to preserve your not living in sin but for him, I am very, very worried that this man is even saved because if you read 1 John 3 that he who is sinning continually, is no Christian at all and Rev 21:8 all of the sexually immoral will be cast into the lake of fire (read Gal 5:19-21) & Eph 5:3-7 too). Warn this man that unless he repents, he has no assurance that he will escape hell. Harsh words I know but that is not my opinion, but the Word of God says as much that those who do such things “no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God” (EPh 5:5) and Paul, not I, wrote “I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal 5:21) and the only other option is the lake of fire.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 10:57 am

I will try to make this clear. He was married to another Christian woman…I was married to another man. He and I met, committed adultery, divorced our spouses, and then married each other. Yes, can you believe it!? All the justification in the world cannot change those facts…but my husband says we are covered by the blood of Christ regardless. However, we now see that Scriptures speak strongly about repentance. If two homosexuals, or liars, or thieves, or murderers, or (name the sin) wanted to repent…they would have to STOP their sinning yes? They would have to make restitution where they could also, and never do such things again.

I originally thought in the beginning that “adultery” was a “one time sin”…but that was before I understood that a person can be living in “a state of adultery”…that is, continuing in their sin without repentance. If repentance is simply being sorry, then you have a point…and we can tell all the homosexual couples to continue on and just be sorry. We can tell a thief to keep the money and the goods, but just be sorry. We can tell a liar to be sorry while he continues to lie.

Does staying in what began as an adulterous marriage somehow absolve the sin of adultery??? Is it not perpetuating the sin?

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 11:11 am

Have you ever spoken with your own pastor about this? If so, what did he say. Again, I would say to not stay in this marriage. You cannot stay in this situation, you are right but of course, staying in this situation doesn’t absolve the sin of adultery, no but God forgives our every sin but your husband is presuming that he can still live in sin because the blood of Jesus covers that but this is totally wrong and the sin of presumptuousness. Paul says in Romans 6:1=2 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

Again, I would not stay in this marriage with this man and this husband of yours (soon to be ex-husband) is lusting in his heart after women and that is what Jesus says is adultery of the heart (Matt 5:27-20). I see you have remorse and it shows me that you have repented so yes, divorce from this man since he is still on pornography and flirting and committing adultery in that sense that Jesus spoke about. Repentance means to stop sinning and turn around and forsake the sin so you are not still committing adultery but he is…get out of this marriage. I fear this man is headed toward Gods judgment. Speak with a pastor…I cannot counsel you all as well as someone could in person. There is just so very, very much to talk about.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 11:04 am

Thank you…

If my husband becomes “morally pure” now, even after all we have done…does this suddenly mean we are “entitled” to remain married? He is in fact changing (by the washing of the Word) but I think he is having a harder time facing what we have done vs. “forgiveness found in Christ”. He struggles with thinking that repentance may actually mean “putting away” the marriage to each other…especially since he would have to remain single. I have no problem with that…but maybe that is because of our age, and maybe because I have suffered his unfaithful heart for ten years already and want to be free of this. But the bigger issue remains…what would please God to do?

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 11:18 am

I would immediately seek marriage counseling from a Christian counselor or pastor right way. You would please God by divorcing this man, unless he repents (meaning stops his adultery) and be free of this sinful state you are in. I wish you were near so I could sit down with both of you…your husband, if he were to die in this state, would have no guarantee of being cast into hell. I don’t think, from your statements, that you would be because you have remorse for this state. Seek counseling today if or near as you can at all costs. Do it immediately.

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 11:19 am

I just saw your last comment. If he has stopped and repented then there is no need for a divorce, don’t you think?

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 12:20 pm

I think the need for a divorce may come into play more clearly if my husband is caught in more immorality AFTER finishing with reading the Bible. I also think that given our Bible study, time is going to confirm this…to see if their is continued fruit. But even so, the Lord will have the final say.

Thank you so much for your time…please pray for him? He has stopped many times in the past (when caught), but then started again and again over the years. The Holy Spirit needs complete control of his heart…and I am not the Holy Spirit. 🙂

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 12:27 pm

Well said my sister in Christ about the Holy Spirit having His own way with your husbands heart. I hope you both find peace in God. I think you are both on the right track and may God richly bless your studies in God’s Word.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 11:10 am

Reading the book of Ezra really was an eye opener. They had to divorce the spouses they took (because they were foreign wives) and send them and their children away…this was their repentance before God. Quite heartbreaking I am sure.

I know we are not under Law. But the principles are still in effect today…especially regarding repentance. So you see our issue now? Remarriage without considering Biblical principles is rampant today. And all “covered” by the blood of Christ and forgiveness, but it seems without repentance.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 11:18 am

I have spoken to MANY Pastors. They all think like my husband does and think I am being legalistic. One thinks that my husband may “come around” to repentance…and he may be right…time will tell and there are some indications of this. He HAS stopped the porn, given up the “friendship” with the other woman, and is reading/discussing the Bible with me seven days a week for hours each evening. This is a difficult one yes?

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DocReits April 15, 2015 at 2:42 pm

Hi Rowena,

“This is a difficult one yes?” YES! Huge, because we live in a society where marriage has lost its definition, both in and especially out of the Church. By “Church” I mean mainline Christianity. This is why we see this explosion today over the “rights” of same sex couples to marry.

Ask these folks what the difference is between “civil unions” and marriage and they will usually end up explaining that marriage gives you more rights in our society(insurance, death benefits, visitation rights, etc), than civil unions. That is not the difference between the two.

Marriage is not a legal “contract” between two people, whereas “civil union” is. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman made before God as their witness and author of this covenant. As “author” or founder, God instigated marriage with certain rules. Those rules you have outlined quite well in your discussion with Pastor Jack. (BTW, that is why “gay marriage” is an oxymoron because there is no such thing as having same sex relations and having a covenant with God who forbids the same)

It does not matter how one feels about staying in an adulterous relationship one way or the other. It does not matter how one feels the Holy Spirit is speaking either. The only thing that matters is what the Word of God says about continuing to live in a “state” of adultery, and what we will do about it as a result. You are right on the mark about what you should do. This is hard and unpopular…but the bottom line is will we or won’t we do what the Word of God says? Pastors you’ve seen, can sugar coat this as much as they want to remain popular in today’s society. They will suffer the greater judgement.

I will pray for you to make the right decision,

DocReits

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 8:14 pm

Hi DocReits,

Yes, the fact is that both my “husband” and I are still in our previous Covenant with our ex’s in God’s eyes although not in the eyes of civil law. We have no excuse. The Lord gave me a Scripture this past November after I discovered my husband “cultivating” a “friendship” with another woman behind my back (I do not think it became physical…but was definately emotionally charged and headed in that direction). The Lord WANTED me to know what he was in the process of doing for a REASON. At any rate, I was ready to divorce him right then and there (like each time I found more Porn/flirting)…so I fasted to the Lord for clear instructions. The Scripture He gave me is Luke 13:6 which is the Parable of the barren fig tree. So that gave me “instruction” to wait a year to see what the Lord is going to do.

Meanwhile, my husband decided a few weeks after being “discovered” that we should read the whole Bible all the way through together. So this is what we are doing for about two to three hours nightly (we have no tv). This has been very eye opening for both of us…things long forgotten and very convicting.

I am totally prepared to divorce and remain alone. I do not want to live in a state of adultery. The way I understand it is that if my husband repents of ALL sexual immorality (including what goes on in his heart), then the Lord “might” “might” “might” sanctify this relationship in His eyes…but if not, then He will certainly move me out of it…or He may move me out of it regardless if my husband repents or not. The Lord will tell me what to do and I am all ears. I am supposing that the Lord KNOWS which way my husband is going to turn…and I may be delusional, but I also believe that the Lord “could” extend His sceptre of mercy towards us as far as remaining married goes. But I have no doubt that He would NOT do that if my husband does not repent from his lustful ways FIRST…and I know I cant bear many more years of catching him in his immorality either.

My husband went to Bible college in his younger years…I think his “conversion” was totally cerebral and not of the heart all this time. He can talk the stripes off of a zebra…but never seemed to actually repent of anything himself (that was for everyone else to have to do). He is now of lately looking at himself more clearly, he knows the probability of divorce is looming at the end of this year…and he knows that we both have to remain single in that event.

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 8:24 pm

Rowena…what a great post. You know, I think you are exactly right that your husband’s “conversion” was totally cerebral and not from the heart and also if your husband truly does repent there is hope. I will pray for just that and thank you for trying to…no, striving to live in obedience to God. Wow. Love it.

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DocReits April 16, 2015 at 1:19 am

Hi Rowena,

There are many things you are anxious about but there is only one thing which is important. It is what Jesus says in His Word. You already know what the Lord commands, for you write:

1) “both my “husband” and I are still in our previous Covenant with our ex’s in God’s eyes”

2) “…so I fasted to the Lord for clear instructions.” Why? You already know His instructions. “You shall not commit adultery”(Ex 20:14) and “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words”…Jn 14:23

3) “So that gave me “instruction” to wait a year to see what the Lord is going to do.” That was you “putting off” what you know what to do is right in your heart, through the knowledge of the Word of God(see 2 above).

4) “I am totally prepared to divorce and remain alone. I do not want to live in a state of adultery.” Then what in the world are you waiting for???! What if you die in this state tonight???(BTW, your husband– somehow becoming “white as the driven snow” will in no way change the state of adultery you find yourselves in)

5) “The way I understand it is that if my husband repents of ALL sexual immorality (including what goes on in his heart), then the Lord “might” “might” “might” sanctify this relationship in His eyes…” Why would the Lord go against His Word? He does not make exceptions against His Rules. You have already acknowledged this (See number 1 above)

6) “The Lord will tell me what to do and I am all ears.” He already has. Your mind knows what God wants, but your heart will not follow, because of your feelings for your husband.

Summing up, you AND your husband know what needs to happen. You both say as much here:

“he knows the probability of divorce is looming at the end of this year…and he knows that we both have to remain single in that event.” I don’t understand your reasoning at all here. How is it all right remaining married now, after divorcing your first spouse, but somehow it won’t be all right to get married again after divorcing your current spouse, even if Mr. Pureheart comes into your life in the future?

Unfortunately you have received un-Biblical counseling from many folks and sound very confused, yet not really, because you are sharper than all of the false prophets who have ill counseled you….because you know what to do…but are kicking against the goads just like Saul, who became Paul.

It is a very hard bed you have made for yourself by causing the break-up of your first husband’s marriage and the break-up of your present husband’s first wife’s marriage. There is forgiveness at the Cross for what you have done. But what will you do now?

You have said elsewhere that you know you are living in a “state” of adultery just as a gay couple is living in a state of sin as practicing homosexuals or lesbians. I agree. Some will say, “well we are all sinners”. Amen!! I am chief. But when we sin we turn away from that sin and turn toward Christ with deep sorrow for having offended God. Those who practice sin have no part with God. Let God speak to you: ” the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.” (1 Jn 3:8)

I am being tough on you here Rowena…but I don’t hear anyone else telling you the truth. If you die in this state of practicing sin as a lifestyle there is a fearful fate that awaits you. Let the words of Dr. David Kelly in his book “The Unchanging Word of God and our spiritual formation” speak to your dilemma,

“Adam and Eve exercised free will and control over their environment, chose to do what they weren’t supposed to do, refused to deny themselves, and ended up on the other side of the fence looking in at Eden. They found their lives and as a result lost their lives. Now, in order to find ourselves we have to literally turn control over to Jesus. Satan had deceived them into believing the truth was really not the truth, and if they just listened to him they would be free. The irony in embracing that lie was that their actions actually made them captives when they were already free.

Self-denial is submitting to God. When I commit my ways to the Lord, I am set free from the captivity. When I surrender, I am set free! I am no longer a slave to sin. I am free to do whatever I want to do. I can express myself as I desire. I am, as Martin Luther King said, ‘Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty I am free at last”. However, when I deny myself in this fashion, I will do what pleases God.”

Don’t get caught on the outside of Eden, looking in Rowena?

DocReits

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Rowena April 16, 2015 at 3:50 am

DocReits,
I do not worship the Bible (though I believe in it and read it and know its Source)…I worship the GOD of the Bible. He dictates through it AND through His Holy Spirit what He will and will not accept from us, and when He set down His “rules”, He also made provision for us when we violate them and seek to repent. That said, repentance is a process of Spiritual enlightenment. It is not always immediately crystal clear about what should be done in “some” of these messier situations, because that too needs to be done in faith. Covenants were broken, new ones made, previous spouses entered new (sanctified) covenants ect…

Nowhere in the Bible does it say for a heterosexual couple to get a divorce to repent from a marriage that should not have taken place (in the New Testament). The fact that homosexuals can legally marry or get divorces now days is just another aberration of sin. However, it becomes rather obvious that if immorality continues to exist in ANY heterosexual marriage, then a divorce is likely to happen, and even is permissible. This stuff is a new frontier…caused mainly by misinformed Pastors accommodating the wiles of sinful people.

It takes more faith to repent than it does to sin.

Sometimes I find that He will withhold His Judgements against us even though we clearly deserve them…but that is the fearful part…whether or not He will do that if we beseech that mercy from Him. But I am certain that He will not leave us in the dark regarding what He expects after we ask Him as we try to unscramble the egg on our faces.

Twice, I was determined to file for divorce, it was God that prevented me from doing so…not some ignorant counselor or Pastor’s permissive opinion. I was angry, hurt, fed up and felt “entitled” to do so…even had plenty of Scriptural justification…but God told me to “forbear”…and certainly not because doing so would make ME comfortable. I have NEVER been (sexually) comfortable in this marriage. My husband has always, even before we married, made me feel physically ashamed and inadequate (comparing me with women decades younger than I)…and I have NEVER desired having sex with him…but did because it is “required”. Yet, I have never, through all of this ever looked at or thought sexually of another man. Sex was not ever a part of the attraction that I had for him (God knows this is true)…it was that he knew the Bible inside out and seemed so passionately “spiritual”…something I craved to share with a spouse and never had. Yes, stupid is as stupid does.

I am thinking that we serve a God who wants to save people from sin and eternal damnation and who will give Him His due glory…that was, and still is His “mission”. And I find that He is long suffering, forbearing and patient while we struggle through the gauntlet and step out in faith…even about what repentance “looks like”…it is a process.

I concluded through this process, that we are indeed living in a state of adultery. I also concluded that even though the marriage is not “sanctioned” by God (because it violated the previous Covenants we have through adultery), that it is still nevertheless a “one flesh union” as designed by God (as opposed to homosexuals). So before I divorce, I want to know if there is going to be ANY chance of Him extending to us His mercy (not because of my feelings for my husband which are barely hanging by a thread, nor for the not so thrilling sex life)…but perhaps like what He did for the woman who was brought to Him by the Pharisees “caught in the act” of adultery. (BTW), where was the MAN who was committing adultery with her? Why wasn’t he brought for stoning too? Was he hiding?…no, because he was in the ACT of sex with her when they snagged her. But, because of the mercy of Jesus, they did not get to stone her (even though THAT WAS THE LAW)…nor did she go away thinking she could return to her lover because she was still married. She had to go home to her husband and face him…she was now at her husband’s mercy…who “could” divorce her instead, especially since she was not going to be stoned after all…but did he?

So I understand you to say that there is ZERO chance that God could or would extend mercy and leave our marriage intact regardless IF my husband repents of his immorality? That the ONLY mercy we can receive is the forgiveness that we will get AFTER we divorce? That the previous Covenant we had with our former spouses can never be dissolved by the One who designed it except by death? That God simply CANNOT dissolve our former Covenants made to Him even though our former spouses are now in a new (sanctioned) Covenant? That God’s ONLY remedy for me is to get another divorce? That God CANNOT EVER change His mind? Okay…I understand that, now I just have to believe it in my heart so I can proceed in faith.

Thank you

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Rowena April 16, 2015 at 4:57 am

DocReits,

In answer to your question: “Why does it seem okay to remain married to (Mr. Lustheart), but not marry a Mr. Pureheart after I get yet another divorce”? Is this a trick question LOL!?

The ONLY thing that could/would make “remaining married now” (after violating the first marriage Covenant) would be that GOD tells us that He would forgive what we did, annul the previous Covenant Himself (to Whom it was made to) and sanction us under a new Covenant. Clearly, I do not yet know if He would consider doing this. However, if He does not and instructs me to file for divorce, THAT means He intends to leave the original marital Covenant still in force and so I have no right to marry any Mr. Pureheart let alone anyone else anyway.

I am not as sure that God CANNOT change His mind about the consequences that He usually meets out as you are. I have seen instances where He changed His mind and forgave simply when people expressed remorse after sinning, even though their situation itself did not change.

Read what happened right after Naman was healed of leprosy by the Prophet Elisha. Naman requested for Elisha to pray to God to forgive him for having to go back and continue to bow down in a temple (idolatry) to another god…because of his position and rank. Elisha told him basically, okay…”go in peace”. In other words, because Naman recognized the True God, and took two bags of the sanctified soil to offer his own sacrifices to Him, God pardoned him for having to go back to a temple and bow down to a false god. His heart was with God regardless of his circumstance. Interesting.

I am not questioning the wrongness of what we have/are doing…I am pondering the remedy which is acceptable and desirable to God…and will do it when I am as certain as you are. This whole revelation is new to us, so it is far better to be certain than sorry (again) for presuming that we HAVE to divorce.

And no, I do not buy the “HURRY UP and get a divorce before you drop dead!” line. If God wants to send me to Hell because I am waiting on Him to be certain that another divorce is what He wants me to do, then He does not really need to use this as an excuse to do so…does He?

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DocReits April 16, 2015 at 2:43 pm

Hi Rowena,

I am sorry I have made you angry. I am concerned for you in this state you are in. It is out of concern that I pen these words:

Hi Rowena,

Often folks think this message cruel and heartless and respond with understandable angst. Your reply was thoughtful and reasoned. I also acknowledge the Grace of God, because I am not consumed already. God is Merciful, Amen, but he is also a just Judge who demands our obedience. We must not practice sin, if we are to be included in His Kingdom. The Scripture is very clear:

“Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people–none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.”(1 Cor 6:9,10)

This is very clear. You can seek the Holy Spirit’s permission to make an exception for you, but you would probably be the first. There is no work around. Jesus’s Blood cleanses us from our sins, but we are to forsake sins and not continue to live in them. Here is the rest of the chapter:

“11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Avoiding Sexual Sin

12 You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.

15 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never!16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”[d] 17 But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.

18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.

Your confession is spiritually cathartic. Your laments are heard by God as David’s were:

“When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away by my groaning all day long”(Ps 32:3)

I have found myself in your shoes(not exactly the same circumstances) in the past and have tried to reason my way out of my dilemma, much like you are doing at present.

It is hard to separate the Bible which is the Word of God, from God Himself. We would like to believe that God through His Holy Spirit will somehow, modify His Word for our particular circumstances. That is dangerous and has led to many errors. I am Pentecostal and understand the Holy Spirit’s ministry but any message received from the Holy Spirit, never contradicts His Word.

And, yes, that Word is spelled out in the pages of the Bible. So we do not worship the physical paper and ink of the Bible but we worship the Father who made the writings in the Bible(the Word of God). That Word became Flesh to dwell among us(Jn 1:14). The very Jesus who is God and was the very speaker who said that, “But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery”.(Mt 5:32)

You know this, but are determined to find a “work around” for your situation. Naman was not a member of the Jewish(Israeli) nation. He was not in “covenant” relationship with Jehovah. If he had converted, he would have been considered an idolater for bowing down to any god other than Jehovah.

Secondly, if you were living in OT times you would have been stoned already for adultery. Be thankful you are living under this dispensation of Grace. We are not to take advantage of that Grace though, as you are doing. Here it is:

“Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?(Rom 6:1,2)

We are in covenant relationship with Jesus when we are born again. You are buried with Him in baptism and you are alive with Him through His Resurrection. We are not to allow sin to reign in our bodies. Marriage reflects this covenant. Just as we are wed to Christ so we are wed to our spouse. It is an inviolable covenant. We are not to continue in a state of practicing sin. Please meditate upon the words of Chapter 6:

“Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin.7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. 9 We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God.11 So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus.

12 Do not let sin control the way you live;[a] do not give in to sinful desires.13 Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God. 14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

15 Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.21 And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Read again verses 15 and 19. Let the Word of God speak to you by His Holy Spirit. If you have trusted Christ as your Savior and have repented of your sins, you must stop living in sin. There is no “work around”.

I am praying for you Rowena as you struggle with yourself over a difficult but clear cut matter.

DocReits

Rowena April 15, 2015 at 8:48 pm

Thank you Jack…please do not forget us. Better late than never. We are certainly at a huge crossroad.

Do YOU have anything that you would like me to pray for in your life? I would like to “return the favor” for all your kindness and encouragement (regardless of what my situation nets in the coming months ahead).

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Jack Wellman April 15, 2015 at 8:56 pm

I will not forget you my sister in Christ. I don’t think I could even if I tried…there is victory even in our struggles. As for praying for me, perhaps that God would grow our church. We have been so small for so long and I work to support my family as I draw next to nothing at the church where I am a simple under-shepherd to the Great Shepherd. I want the church to grow however through the saving of souls in our community for my greatest passion is to save those who are lost and point them to Christ so that He will save them. I am nothing….Jesus is everything so to Him belongs the glory forever and ever. Thank you Rowena.

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Rowena April 15, 2015 at 11:03 pm

I am so sorry to hear that your church is not increasing the lost souls entering in. But please understand that you are not alone in this. Our church (in California) went from 120 people…down to 69…down to 24…now 13…no children at all. This happened in the last 5 years. What is happening is that we are entering a time where people will not endure sound doctrine, and a time when the season for being able to reach the lost is becoming dry. Look at what has happened to Christians in the Middle East. Fleeing for their lives in countries that had centuries of Christian influence! Our form of persecution is different here (for now)…it is political. We are not taken seriously, and are now coming under attack from our own government as to what we are allowed to do…or have to do. Muslims have more rights to practice their religion than we do. Christian businesses that do not want to bake a wedding cake or make a flower arrangement for a homosexual couple? Boom! Your business is now shut down. Muslims who refuse to bake a cake for homosexuals?…fine.

So please understand that a small or “dying” church is an indication of the end times we are approaching…having nothing to do with you personally or your faithfulness to our Lord.

“They STILL serve…who only stand and wait”.

I have prayed for you Jack…and prayed that the Lord will give you plenty of opportunities to save souls or plant seeds in your daily life.

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Rowena April 16, 2015 at 3:58 pm

DocReits,
I was never angry at your words. I do not feel what you think you are perceiving. I am processing all things…to include Luke Ch 13:6 which the LORD clearly directed to me. Sorry that I cannot prove that to you, but I do not have to…you will just have to believe it or not.

Naman absolutely converted to the True God the moment he was healed (read it again), but when he went back to his people, he was still required to bow down in the idolatry temple because of his position. He asked Elisha to intercede for forgiveness because he knew what was coming and expected of him next. He was clearly forgiven for having to do what others would have been stoned to death for in “his new conversion”. He went on to offer sacrifices to the “correct” God thereafter, and was granted forgiveness for what he still had to do regarding his position of service in his own land.

Jesus did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned…yet that was THE LAW. Oops…apparently He made an exception? He also healed on the Sabbath…which was interpreted as violating the Law…Oops, He ended up having to explain His compassion, reason and logic to “get away with” doing that one too?

I live my walk with God not exclusively on “paper”, but as a living active relationship through the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit leads me to wait on Him regarding an issue…even though all word, interpretation and logic seems to point to an obvious answer already…cant HE? Does He not have the right to exercise His authority over me?

Does God not have the right and authority to make exceptions? If you think not, and say that I am the first possible example of this exception, then it is time for you to re-read the Bible from front to back and answer this more clearly for yourself. I cannot help but see it even though I am not actively looking for it. Why can’t you?

My desire to wait on God is prompted by my relationship with Him and by HIM. If I had my way, I would have already divorced this man years ago. It has been a very painful and strong cup to drink thus far…and well deserving.

Yet I see God as One who prefers redemption over punishment…the biggest illustration is Jesus on the cross.

Does this give me/us the right to continue in sin? NO. It does demand that I wait to be certain about what exactly He wants me to do given what I now see about our situation…but also what I see considering ALL the attributes of His nature. And wait is exactly what He told me to do…so that is what I do. If He then tells me to divorce at the end of this year, I have no sorrow in doing so…only the sorrow from sinning in the first place.

I do not divide the Old Testament from the New so easily. God is the God of both…His nature does not change, but clearly, His provisions and Covenant with us did. There is far more mercy shown in the New, but I still see it in the Old. There is far more reason to take the New even more seriously, because it came about through the innocent BLOOD of Christ rather than through sacrifice of animals. I am strongly aware of this.

When my husband approaches me for sex…I panic internally because I do not want to do this. Offering up my body to him seems a defilement of my soul. However, I went to God over this, and it was HE Who gave me the story about Naman! He was telling me that He forgave me for doing what was “required” even though He knows my heart did not want to. This is coming to an end one way or another this year…meaning, I will still have to suffer this situation for the cause of Christ because He is actively doing a work in us.

If I dont do this, I KNOW that my husband will eventually use it as an excuse to sin (more). I will be responsible for stumbling him and he will likely drag a third party (another woman) down with him. If I do give my body to him, he is the only one responsible for his own sins…not me. But if I submit (for now), and he is brought into complete repentance through the Holy Spirit and the “washing of the Word”…(whether we end up having to divorce or not), then he will not likely continue in his sin thereafter, though I wont be held accountable for that if he does. I believe this provision is made clear in the Bible when Paul says it is better to marry than burn with passion…and that we are required to give ourselves to our mates sexually to prevent more sin from entering in.

So even considering all that you have pointed out, we will have to disagree on the timing of implementing it, as well as what the repentance is going to look like since I do not clearly know what God is going to tell me to do.

Thank you for all your consideration!

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DocReits April 17, 2015 at 2:00 am

Rowena,

You are trying to justify your sin by side stepping. Only the Holy Spirit will help. All I can do is to say don’t continue in sin. Whereas you see it fine to continue in sin because some spirit has told you it is fine to continue in sin for a season, until it tells you to stop. Read that last sentence again a few times and ask yourself if that makes sense?

The other points you try to make are rationalizations to justify your sinful lifestyle. Naaman was not in covenant relationship with Jehovah. He was therefore not under the Law. You are in covenant relationship with Jesus Christ if you are a believer. That is the New Covenant.

“Jesus did not permit the woman caught in adultery to be stoned…yet that was THE LAW. Oops…apparently He made an exception?”

Jesus ushered in a new covenant which was based on faith in Him and His Blood. He told the woman to “Go and sin no more”…remember?

“He also healed on the Sabbath…which was interpreted as violating the Law…Oops”

Jesus’s point was that it was not against the Law(Ten Commandments) to heal on the Sabbath. You were to “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”(Ex 20:8). He demonstrated by repeatedly healing on the Sabbath that He was Lord of the Sabbath, and that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath. It was ceremonial laws that were added by the Pharisees that Jesus was showing were foolish. He never excused sin. He fulfilled the Law and was without sin.

“If the Holy Spirit leads me to wait on Him regarding an issue…even though all word, interpretation and logic seems to point to an obvious answer already…cant HE? Does He not have the right to exercise His authority over me?”

The Father will never ask you to continue in sin until a more convenient season. He calls all of His children to forsake sin. If some spirit is telling you it is all right to continue sinning until a later time, it is a spirit of the enemy, or a god you have made in your image, not the God of the Bible.

“And wait is exactly what He told me to do…so that is what I do.”

How did He speak that to you? Audibly? God speaks through His Word, and His Word is clear. His Word says to forsake sin. The Corinthian church had many believers like you Rowena. Paul said this to them,

“You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed.”(2 Cor 11:4)

Your discussion about being basically a sex slave is ridiculous. How can you state you are under NT provisions for marriage when you are in a state of adultery.? IOW, your relationship with this man you call your husband is exactly like that of the woman at the well. It is not a covenant relationship sanctioned by God. That is the definition of a Christian marriage. So why would you be applying verses from the NT to your situation?

“I live my walk with God not exclusively on “paper”.

Do you not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God? To live your walk like the Bible “plus” something is the way to go and to then disregard what the Word says(if this spirit speaks differently) is the same thing that got our first parents kicked out of the garden.

Repentance again means turning from and forsaking sin(not continuing in a state of sin) and turning towards the Cross. Without repentance there is no forgiveness of sin. “Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.”(Acts 3:19)

Regarding this God Christian’s serve. He is a God of mercy and forgiveness to all those who seek forgiveness and repent For those who refuse to repent of their sin but continue in practiced sin He is a God of judgement.

“The LORD will judge his own people. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”(Heb 10:30-31)

Remember all of those years when Noah preached to his neighbors regarding God’s coming judgement by water. He was preaching for hundreds of years to that sinful generation? God was patient and long-suffering towards them. But in the end how many repented and turned towards God? “God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.”(1 Pet 3:20) They “all” perished outside Noah’s own family.

“…those ·who refuse to believe [without faith], who do ·evil [vile; detestable] things, who kill, who sin sexually, who do ·evil magic [sorcery], who worship idols, and who tell lies—all these will have ·a place [ their part] in the lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death”(Rev 21:8)

I wouldn’t be so presumptuous in thinking that God will wait you out Rowena. As Lucy said about Jesus as Aslan in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, “He is not a tame lion”. Today is the day of salvation(2 Cor 6:2)

DocReits

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Rowena April 17, 2015 at 9:46 am

DocReits,

I repeatedly said to you that I know we are living in a state of adultery yes?

I never said that this marriage was covered under any Covenant designed by God yes?

I do know that God is patient and long suffering…I also know that the Holy Spirit is HOLY.

I also know that God seeks to save the lost and uses His Word to “reason, convict, and wash sinners as white as snow”.

We are in the Word daily, God did tell me to wait.

I cant help it if you want to refute the way God wants to bring us into compliance with Him.

Talking to you is like talking to a Jehovah Witness or worse… a Pharasee…you have all the answers but absolutely no sense of mercy for me or compassion for the progress my “husband” is making towards repentance…you push to cut that process short. God gave Jezebel in Revelation a “season” to repent before destroying her. He is also giving time to us, especially since He knows we are seeking His Grace and His direction (not yours) in this matter.

Jack, Please continue to pray for us…you know that I will do as the Lord directs. I have tested the “spirits” as best as I can already. All direction I was given up to now has been given through His Word…and all of it falls under His patience, long suffering and desire to SAVE the lost…”but others save with fear, having compassion, snatching them out of the fire while hating even the garment defiled by the flesh”.

DocReits…I am finished with you, get thee behind me.

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DocReits April 17, 2015 at 11:30 pm

God Bless you Rowena.

DocReits

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Rowena April 18, 2015 at 9:27 am

Thank You DocReits…and may He bless you always.

melissa July 5, 2015 at 8:53 pm

It seems that this generation wants to hear from the pastors its ok go and Sin because God will forgive us and Love us. That’s like saying then go steal a bank and slap your friends because we
will be forgiven. There has to be a Boundary a wall to No you cant go that way. This days people don’t want Rules or Commandments They want to be Free to express any way they feel like it.
Then when things go wrong they blame God.

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Jack Wellman July 5, 2015 at 9:30 pm

Thank you Melissa. You cannot believe the criticism I get and I am sure other pastors do just for teaching what the Bible says but we know God never condones sin nor compromises with it so neither should we, you are so right.

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Canaan Dzvuke October 23, 2015 at 12:05 am

Hello,

Thank for all that has been shared and I have not read all the responses but I believe the message as the Bible says it like this: “do not give evil an opportunity for it will stain the witness of Christ”.

I am a middle aged man now, I have considered this issue carefully and sought help from scripture. The issue that I am facing is that raising money for marriage is not easy. I was married previously and it ended miserably. But I am aware of the lustful thoughts that I have that can be crushing. I also am aware that if one marries with their heart full of lust, then the marriage will give way to the Devil to operate in the marriage, that will have many problems, strife and once gain lead to divorce.

The Bible says to flee from lust; but the society we live in, the things we see daily, re-ingite it… from the way that women dress, through to advertisement boards and TV programs. So lust can be ignited at anytime, and does drive a lot of relationships.

Now, being aware of these things, that financial resources to marry are scarce, lustful thoughts abound all things that of the flesh and idolised, how does one break this chain of events? Paul said it is better to marry than burn with Passion. So if living together with your future spouse would allow you to save to marry, then it cannot be done. How does one turn-around this viscious circle.

Understand me, my desire is to do things that please God. But if in aiming to do those things, there are stumbling blocks that I encounter any which way, then as much as I want to avoid sin, I will remain in it.

Can you provide a practical Biblical solution? Marriage is good, we all agree but I want to practical scripture inspired solutions from men of God that are already married. It seems so easy for married Pastors to dish out the advice “you cannot do this and that and so forth….” Now I am seeking real help.

Thank you and best regards,
Canaan Dzvuke

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Jack Wellman October 23, 2015 at 3:29 pm

Thank you sir. There is no biblical solution outside of not living together. If you are truly seeking real help, talk to your own pastor about this and see what he says. Wow…”you wrote it is easy for married pastors to dish out advice” meaning its useless? If you are not trusting God enough and must disobey God so that you can depend on your two’s finances till you get married then you are not pleasing God. It doesn’t matter what I say. My opinion is useless. God’s Word says do not fornicate or have sex outside of marriage and to live together is to not be abstaining from every appearance of evil as the Bible commands. I wished there was some other way my friend but the truth is that those who live together before marriage are almost 3 times more likely to divorce. This is NOT my advice that I’m dishing out but the biblical solution.

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Dean Kleb October 26, 2015 at 8:24 am

Happy to see so many perfect people, it’s incredible. I thought it was impossible but glad to know one day I too may be I could be a perfect Christian. If not at least I know I am trying and I know why my Lord Jesus Christ was crucified and raised from the dead.

God bless
Dean

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steven November 5, 2015 at 1:10 pm

Conventional wisdom in the Christian community would inform us not to live together before marriage, and that’s definitely not a bad thing because there is less chance of the new couple having sex outside of marriage. However living together is also not a sin. This practice is becoming more common among millennials because it provides more financial freedom and makes it easier to pay rent or car payments etc. if you happen to find yourself living with the opposite gender, I would advise the couple to have at least one other person living in the residence with them, preferably a Christian roommate who can help pay rent and other expenses, this makes it more difficult for the new couple to sin. You may prefer the privacy of 2 people, but if having 3 or even 4 people in the same residence helps you avoid sinful activities then it will be that much better for everyone; however if you can avoid living with each other then that will make it easier for the couple and everyone involved the couple’s lives and your conscience will be crystal clear.

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Julio December 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm

Hi my name is Julio, so my question after reading this is. So I have stayed the night with my gf for about 3 weeks. until her step sister brought it to our attention that although we wernt having sex us living together or spending the night was still a sin and so me being a christian and wanting to do things rite i reseached whether it was a sin or not and after reading this passage I assume it is a sin because it does cause temtation and it also probably does convince people that me and her are sleeping together so my question is this. If me and her stop spending the night and we only hang out at her house after work to watch movies or to cook dinner and be around each other is that a sin me and her both have practiced self control and even now while i am with her i can go days without sex or temptation cross my mind. I just want to know if me and my gf can see each other at her house just to watch movies and eat dinner or go for walks or to go walk around stores is doing these things a sin? and also she asked since we love eachother we both are wondeing since we kiss and hug is that ok if there are no feeling of being tempted to have sex? Just want to do things rite the both of us believe in jesus and want to not sin.

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Jack Wellman December 16, 2015 at 5:51 pm

Thank you Julio. I see nothing wrong with watching movies together. How old are you both? Is there any touching in private areas? This is sin Talk to your pastor or a trusted Christian older man. by the way, it is not wise to even date someone who is a Christian as we’re commanded to not be unequally yoked. I strongly suggest you read this called “What Does the Bible Say About Dating and Courtship” at http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-dating-and-courtship/

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Cindy January 6, 2016 at 1:33 pm

I was a drug addict for 38 years. When Jesus found me in a jail cell, I got saved and committed my life to Him. I have lived with a man for 40 years. This man and I have a 20 year old daughter who recently moved out. When I got saved 7 years ago I told this man that I could no longer sleep with him. We have a very large house so I moved to a bedroom upstairs. He provides the house and utilities and I provide the food. We are roommates more than boyfriend/girlfriend. I do not know if I should leave or not. He drinks and sometimes is verbally abusive. I pray for his salvation and at least now he listens when I talk to him about Jesus. I have a ministry and I teach the 12 steps from the Life Recovery Bible. One of my students said that she will no longer come to my class because I still live with him and am not trusting God to provide for me. I am a caregiver and do not make very good money. I also have a prison ministry and thought, up to this point, that God has me staying with my daughter’s father so that I could work part-time and do ministry as well. I need some advice. My Pastor says I should trust God. Well I have been praying for a few months with no response from the Lord. I need some wise council wisdom, please. Thanks.

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gerri January 16, 2016 at 8:39 pm

Disagreement w/you. And I for one needed to rwad this exactly as ut is. You cannot know how the Holy Spirit will work … He do many times uses even our words. I dont see this as a 2×4 tho some people even professing CHRISTians need explanations. You wouldnt believe how many of them don’t even read God’s loving Word, at all, much less all of it. AND there are a teagic number of chuechws where they think they’re saved byt hardly ever hear the real, complete Gospel. And they hear that sins are quite all right “these days.” Liberal thinking, not God-thinking. The only way to safely view sin in His etws. You need to be serious about what He means and says, not what society likes. THANK YOU TO THIS WRITER.

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daniel spannknebel January 27, 2016 at 9:30 pm

i believe he was understanding with her and gave her a true biblical diagnosis for her situation with compassion, yes the age gap and culture difference might play a factor in bridging the gap of understanding but God and his son Jesus are greater than all that, so the seed is planted God will ..”if allowed” by julie help it grow into repentance,conviction,and change etc. since he is a moody graduate i would reccommend to do some research on the n.i.v. version of “the bible” because it is not the full word of God and is altered from what it should say ,so thats something to consdier rupert murdoch, who owns fox network and also has copyrights to the n.i.v and a satanic bible version and he is friends with oprah and a new age movement follower. on another note i researched the topic of this post tongiht because i’am in a similar situation at the present moment and wanted to seek advice and counsel ,the post was good i believe to help me consider my next steps in my journey of life. anybody who reads this please pray for me that i might choice and do gods will in all aspects of life. thank you and Godbless in Christ.

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Heather Fuller May 3, 2016 at 7:14 am

Hello, I have not been saved, but I wish to be. I believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and God’s son who He put on earth and who died for our sins so that we may have eternal life. I believe that with my heart.
Recently, 3 weeks, I realized that I am a sinner and I told Jesus my sins and asked for forgiveness. However, I have many addictions and I asked God to free me from them.
My boyfriend has lived in my house and slept in my bed for 7 years. He abuses me. I asked God to have him leave, but he has not left yet. I have asked him to leave, but he threatens me and I give in. I am not strong enough. I asked God for strength.
I turn my back when he wants sex, but he gropes me and then gets angry and violent when I refuse to have sex.
I thought he was a non-believer, but the other day he admitted that he believes in Jesus. He is not sure of anything.
I fell in love with my boyfriend because he has such a giving heart and he is compassionate towards others. He would give everything he has to someone in need.
He has been hurt by his ex-wife and demons turn that hurt into anger and it leads to abuse. He needs Jesus more than anyone I know, but he will not give his complete trust in anything since she cheated.
So, I am in a predicament. How can I be Christian and be saved in my current situation? God has not yet provided me with the answers.
Thank you.

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Jack Wellman May 3, 2016 at 9:02 am

Hello Heather. No one who lives in sin can claim any confidence about being saved. You must get out of that situation for God will judge all sexually immoral people and they are not going to be entering the kingdom but in a place that cannot even be described. God has provided you with answers. we must flee from sexual immorality and run to the cross and turn away from that sin. Read 1st John chapter 3 and it is crystal clear that no one who is saved will be living in sin. If this man is abusing you, then you need to turn this man in. I know you probably wont’ but can’t you go back home or to a friends and break this off. If you love him more than love God then you are choosing him over Christ and cannot be saved. When your boyfriend stands before Christ, as we all will, he cannot blame this woman who hurt him. Even the demons believe in Jesus but that doesn’t mean they are saved. If you can’t leave this sinful state, you have no hope after this life and if Christ were to return today, I think you both know what would happen (Rev 20:12-15) so PLEASE leave him now, repent of this lifestyle and turn to Christ.

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Jackson Prince Foyofayiah June 5, 2016 at 4:45 pm

Pastor Wellman….I bless God for you so much. Reading your article has been an opportunity created by God Himself. Your article has broaden my knowledge as to how to go about with my youthful life. It was just yesterday (June 4, 2016) that i broke up with my girlfriend. My reason for this is that, i want to live a Godly life. Currently i’m a music minister in my church but I’ve been finding it extremely difficult to make such a decision. Right now, my partner that i broke up with is really wanting the relationship back. In fact, i received a call during the course of today, that she fainted due to frustration. People in the community are putting blames on me for her situation and is saying if i don’t allow her in my life again could lead to her subsequent death…I’m kind of confuse right now, i don’t want somebody to lost their life because of me and again i don’t want to continue living in fornication at the same time ministering to God’s people. Please help me pray to God for grace to peaceably handle this situation.

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Jack Wellman June 5, 2016 at 4:51 pm

Thank you sir. You are not to blame for what other people do….we are only responsible for what we do. Please, yes, you must stop right now, today and forever more and remain pure in God’s eyes for whoever is joined with a prostitute (not that she is, but you are both fornicating) becomes one as one flesh with the prostitute. God may remove your music ministry if you don’t my friend. God may be using this desire for you to humble your former (and I say “former”) girlfriend, and to break her of her pride and make her come to the Savior. Is she a Christian? If she says so, please have her read 1st John chapter 3 (we all should) to see if we are a child of God or a child of the Devil. I will pray for you but the will of God is that you abstain from all sexual immorality. Do that and God will take care of the consequences. Praying for you friend.

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Concerned Mom July 19, 2016 at 8:20 pm

I have been in a “live-in” relationship for 12 years. We have two children in common, ages 10 and 12. I was raised in church and fell away from God for many years. About 4 months ago I began attending church with my children and our living situation has been very heavy on my heart. Our children and our church believe we are married as we claim one another as husband and wife. I want to change our relationship and set an example for my children, I want my home to be Christian home. My “partner” Belen Es in God (or he says) but he does not attend church with us, he does occasionally if he doesn’t have something to do…which is wrong. I have turned to scripture for guidance on how to help him and all I found is I should pray for him and let God do his work. I have prayed for Gods will in our living situation for several weeks now, I have distanced myself from my partner because I know it’s a sin. I am concerned about my children if I suddenly pack up and take them from their father. I am willing to marry to rectify our relationship but he doesn’t see the need. So several questions
1) Does the bible/God recongize common law marriage – which is valid in our state
2) Realtionships w/children and the “broken home” impact on the children?
3) will getting married truly rectify our sin?

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Jack Wellman July 19, 2016 at 9:45 pm

Thank you “Concerned Mom” for your comment and question. The Bible doesn’t recognized a common law marriage. It is sin. Perhaps you both could just go to the courthouse and get married there…not big ceremony. Getting married won’t rectify the sin but it will stop the sin. God cleanses us from all our sins (1 John 1:9) but we must turn away from this sin in order to be in a right relationship with God. Yes, keep praying for this man to be saved. That is all you can do. I will pray for you “Mom.” May God richly bless you. Perhaps speak with your pastor about this.

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steven Matthews September 26, 2016 at 11:58 am

AS for this message I think one yes she does need to be a part of a flock if she is being discriminated against by members of the church she needs to go to the church leadership. If she is in error in her conduct she needs to be loved and understand the position of the church.
15 If your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
She and her boyfriend need to know to
1 Corinthians 7:6 This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work. 7 Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. 8 Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the
Law.…
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are
ordained of God.
1 timothy 5:17 Elders who lead effectively are worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages.”…
As for this being an appearance of sin I don’t agree. I am not debating this but I see also that this scripture is often used under misconception.11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:22. With 1 Thessalonians 5:22 the discourse again reverts to what is general, whilst the requirement to hold fast that which is good in the discourses of the inspired very naturally required the transition to the further requirement to keep at a distance from every kind of evil, accordingly also from that which was perhaps intermixed in these discourses. Usually 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is referred exclusively to the discourses of the inspired, so that πάντα δὲ δοκιμάζετε contains the chief point which is then unfolded according to its two sides, first positively
but the Lord tells us not to give the devil a foot hold and we pray not to enter temptation.
If you never be tempted how will you get stronger when tempted and tired. Our prayer is that God not lead us into temptation which He will not do when we pray Why ask for more trial if we can avoid it but He does lead us through temptation.
If the scenario is to of the opposite sex in the same room having passions for one another alone. I believe that keeping yourselves is wise. That does not mean you couldn’t visit while others are there friends family. Even being alone momentarily is good and you should be trusted to have self control. Keeping yourselves from deep romantic involvement such as petting, deep kissing, and sexually stimulating conversations. Again you may stumble but should learn to keep yourselves along the way. My saying that you may stumble is no green light to do so either. By no means should you entertain sexual intercourse before marriage. I have learned that lesson to don’t repeat my mistakes.
Live in a self controlled manner 3 For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; 4 each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, 5 not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God;…
To some degree you will need to control your passions I don’t mean open yourself up to much but being alone is good there will be times in your marriage you will be alone and will need to control yourselves between the two of you and also with other people remember controlling yourself is also keeping this person you claim to love from harm.
If the situation is wanting more quality time then by all means if he lives at home with elders I see nothing wrong with it as long as it is chaperoned and they are also believing parents.
enjoy one another company, watch movies talk late hours it is all good courtship as long as it is God honoring. By all means keep the bed room door open after it is night get out of there it is for sleeping you should not share the same bed if you want to cuddle a little and hold one another do it in the open and keep hands in wholes places holding hands hugging Him holding you. I you live at home talk it out with your mother/ father and tell them how you want more time and also let ease them by letting them know your keeping others that will help you stay accountable around. Let them communicate with those persons aka His parents.
At the end of the day
8Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.…
My saying that you may stumble is no green light to do so either.
I think common law marriage can be binding if it is kept in the commitment, and God is brought into it. Therefore marriage is not only a legal matter between the state and the committed but also between you God and your family. It is meant for public announcement and there needs to be vows exchanged a public commitment of marriage. Marriages long ago only needed two witnesses and a officiator usually the father in biblical times. I do err on the side of caution that marriage should be considered and prayed through infatuation is not love you need to know one another and be prepared for marriage. So take your time get to know each other and by all means don’t be hasty.
The thoughts of the diligent tend only to plenteousness; but of every one that is hasty only to want.
But if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless, such shall have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
There are commandments for the married and marriage is life long and is a grave endeavor one of giving nurturing one that takes continual attention. While also a person is sanctioned by God to put Him first even while married.
God loves you and wants you to seek Him and pray and talk to Him I commend you for seeking wise counsel of Christians. If you are feeling ostracized or judged by your church speak up to one of the elders and pray with them and work it out keep also in mind to respect them and what they say even if you are having trouble coming into agreement…. May God bless you….

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The Honest Truth October 14, 2016 at 6:25 pm

The divorce rate is so very much out of control today unfortunately which just Living together is a very Wise thing.

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Terry Patton Jr December 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm

If a man and a woman believe in the same God and do know scripture yet they live together without the church knowing does that mean that God didn’t bring them together and does it mean that satan did or just their lust??

I am living with my girlfriend we both go to church 2 times a week and we believe in Jesus Christ. Although she is more into prayer and trying to understand the Bible, she even reads it every morning! Is it possible that Christ brought us together although we choose to have sexual relations? I feel very guilty about all of this but I was so tired of being alone and headed down a backsliding darkness of strip bars, hookers and who knows what. Since I have been with her I feel better and i am more focused on Christ and church because of her I just feel guilty as hell because we live together and have sex outside of marriage. We have both been divorced and lost a lot.. I ask God to forgive me almost everyday. I guess Im trying to decide if He brought us together to be with each other or are we fooling ourselves and brought together because of our lustful desires?

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Jack Wellman December 17, 2016 at 10:40 pm

Hello Mr. Patton. The fact that you feel guilty is a warning from God that this must stop. Since sexual immorality that is unrepented of are things that people do who will not inherit the kingdom of God, you must stop right now sir (Rev 21:8). Read 1st John chapter 3 and see if you still think this is okay. Have you talked with your pastor about this? Yes, she knows God but so do the demons, James writes. Please get this ended sir, I plead with you, before Christ returns or after death, the judgment (Heb 9:27). God would not bring you together to commit sin…but perhaps in marriage.

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Michael Lorusso January 10, 2017 at 1:39 pm

Pastor Wellman,

Thank you for your service to Our Lord! Great website and solid Christian counseling and values! In Christ, Michael.

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Jack Wellman January 10, 2017 at 2:01 pm

Thank you kindly Mr. Lorusso. You are encouraging. Truly, all glory to God.

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Belinda Jordan February 14, 2017 at 3:21 am

Hi if you have been married for 23 year faithfull. Then your husband says go find another husband ,the flame has gone out you have never been a good wife and you are to religious. . I live alone with my daughter people say devoice him .find someone else l say how can l do that lf ldont devoice thats wrong because god still sees me married .but l want to say why is my heart sad now.lam not sure what god wants me to do.

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Jack Wellman February 14, 2017 at 7:52 am

Hello Belinda. How tragic and this man is more interested in his own life than in God and his family. Have you talked with your pastor about this? I would speak to him and ask for the prayers of the saints in the church as an “unspoken needs.” I would stay close to your faith and in the Word and stay connected to your church because we need one another as Satan is seeking the ones who stray and as for your husband, I would pray for his soul as he doesn’t sound saved at all (read 1 John chapter 3). I will.

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Victor Cameron February 24, 2017 at 7:36 pm

I agree entirely with this post. The pride of this pastor shines out loud and clear his entire approach is intellectual and lacking, even devoid of Christian love and Godly wisdom.

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Jack Wellman February 25, 2017 at 9:08 am

Hello Mr. Cameron. I am sorry if you feel that I am prideful and lacking intellect and devoid of Christian love but love is speaking the truth and to think Christian men and women can live together without being married is not only not loving, it’s not speaking biblical truth. I can live with being called names but I cannot live with speaking untruths about sexual immorality. I stand on the Word of God…so, call me what you like. I believe the Bible.

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Kelechi February 28, 2017 at 2:02 pm

When you find yourself needing a whole lot of argument before you know the truth, the Devil has already blinded you.
It’s not hard to know the truth, It’s our lust that blinds us.
We are really looking for excuse to follow our lusts when we do such research.
The motive is what happens, when we want to do that, we have already fallen into sin, even if we don’t do it.
May God open our eyes and cause us to follow the path of holiness, that’s when we will really have the peace of mind. Doing your own things won’t give you that.

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Jack Wellman February 28, 2017 at 2:07 pm

Thank you Kelechi. Well said.

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Brenda March 14, 2017 at 10:05 pm

I had lived with my then boyfriend for 2 months. I grew up in a Christian home and i was saved at 14 and baptized at 18. I served as a leader for the youth group and young adult group. I had stopped going to church and separated myself bc my ex didn’t understand the language and even if a person could translate it still didn’t help. As i seperated more and more i spent more time with my ex. My family already felt like it wasnt healthy. He would never come around my home and i would begin to lie to mom about where i was at which was his apartment and yes eventually had sex bc i went to him he lived alone and we eventually did. We knew the first time it was bad then it would happen over and over. I then, my praise was never the same. It felt like i was asking for forgiveness over and over again instead of stopping it. At this point my mom had a feeling this was happening. Mind you im 24. I felt like I was hiding something! But it couldn’t be covered and then I moved in with him and the idea of marriage was the next step but quickly! I couldn’t wait bc i was afraid he would be content and continue to live this way but he didn’t. I moved out 2wks before he was going to propose after living with each other for 2 month. Was i wrong? Was i overthinking? He said why not live together we sin everday, he promised to have God in our relationship. But i couldn’t! Honour thy mother and father, i pushed her to the back burner! You might think that she was controling or i shouldnt care what she thinks but ……..i couldn’t live another day knowing that my mom was upset that she had lost a daughter that she knew what i wanted. A big happy family with gtandma aunt and uncle to be there for my future kids! We both love each other very much! It was taken out of context. I lost the relationship with God the communication and reading the bible instead of listening to other people or asking other people. Maybe one day we might be together but doing it right. Not hiding or sneaking around or not doing things together with my family not just his bc our family’s live only 15mins away from each other. Im working on myself right now, finishing up my masters by the time i turn 26 and move forward. If we are ment to be it will only be in Gods timing not ours

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patrick March 25, 2017 at 7:00 am

Hello, seems very strange to utter the word “hello” in the same context as to what you are so rightly purporting in this article…to keep “HELL LOW” I have a similar quandry to face. Fast approaching 70 years on this earth, I only recently have re-dedicated my life to Jesus.
I am divorced of 23 years and have been living in an unmarried defacto relatioship for 22 years and behaving as a member of a couple…However only just 2 weeks ago I was so very heavily convicted by the Holy Spirit, to cease the relatioship, too which I am presently wrestling with, allthough my heart is now finally pure with the intent to repent and stop sinning and being a stumbling block to my partner.
We have bought a house together, and have separate rooms and I have announced to my partner that I do not want to engage in any further sexual relations unless we are married according to God’s commandments…My partner at this point is a fence sitting believer who does not confess Jesus with her mouth.
I am very deeply troubled and gravely convicted by the Holy Spirit….for which I am most gratefull and thankfull to Jesus for having impressed upon me my unrepentant sinfull ways….Even tho I considered myself espoused to this woman for 22 years and with a firm commitment to her till death, and in continuous prayer for her salvation cleaving to the promise that she is sanctified by my faith that in time she will be born again….Problem I have is that she does not want to marry! Can you give me some enlightening scripture to guide me and lessen this burdonsome heavy conviction. Not mine but your will Father.

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Jack Wellman March 25, 2017 at 9:34 am

I see you are faced with a hard decision but Jesus said whoever does not hate their mother, father, and brothers and sisters (biological) compared to loving me and seeking the kingdom first (Matt 6:33), then they are not fit to be in the kingdom of God. Either living with this woman is more important or pleasing God. To have a woman not profess Jesus publically is to deny Him before men and Jesus will deny her before the Father, so get out of that situation. Have you talked with your pastor about this? What did he say? I cannot give you a Scripture unless it is Jesus’ “unless you repent you shall likewise perish.” I cannot give you a Scripture for your situation. You know what you must do. The Holy Spirit had already convicted you, not do it.

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Helen April 13, 2017 at 10:00 pm

I’d like to state, first off, that I only read the conversation between you and the girl, not the conclusion, and I know this is in 2017 that I’m writing this, but I have to say, the Bible verses you gave do not say anything specifically about living together or the morality of that. Yes, it is wrong to be unequally yoked, and I understand about the appearance thing, how it may look to other nonbelievers, look like false witnessing. But if the couple knows they’re not doing anything – and more importantly, if GOD knows (which He does, obviously, as He is omniscient) – that they are not doing anything sexually immoral, and no nonbeliever is even aware of the situation, to judge it, and it’s just one night for some other reasonable purpose…the Bible verses do not say anything against that. Yes, wash yourself of unclean things, abide in Him, yes, don’t live in sin knowingly…but I feel like you didn’t really prove that it’s a sin to stay the night, under special circumstances. And most importantly, I understand that you should not live in sin; I believe in everything the Bible says, but you have to take it into context. Yes, we all still sin, but we should hate it, and repent, yes, not still living in it purposefully…but if you are in God’s hand, nothing can take you out of it. Not even your sin. For His righteousness covers us COMPLETELY. And I know you didn’t say we’d go to hell if we lived in sin, but you certainly came off as judgmental, and that is not how God wants us as believers to be. We are to love one another, and love has no boundaries, has no Pharisaical ideals. So, in conclusion, since there are no Bible verses specifically about it, and not prohibiting it, and since you are not living in sin, OR unequally yoked, yes, it may not be WISE to stay the night one night – if other nonbelievers do know about it – but it is not a sin.

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Jack Wellman April 14, 2017 at 8:17 am

Hello Helen and thank you for your comment. So you think your daughter or granddaughter or son is fine living with someone unmarried? The Bible says we should not give the appearance of evil (there’s a Bible verse) and “whatever is not of faith is sin” (so there is another Bible verse). Love has boundaries…we can love but not kill, so to say love has no boundaries is not biblical and neither is it wise.

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Helen April 17, 2017 at 2:56 pm

*caps locks used here isn’t yelling; it’s for emphasis, as there is no ‘italic’ option*
Did you even read my whole comment? I already addressed what you said; I stated that it was not a sin to do it ONE night, under special circumstances, and NO NONBELIEVERS KNEW. Meaning, no ‘appearance of evil.’ Yes, I saw that verse, which was why I addressed it. And also, it IS of faith, if the two aren’t doing anything sexually immoral, and they are believers and are true to and have faith in the Lord.
Also, you didn’t address how none of the OTHER verses you gave stated anything about it. I looked all of them up, and none gave anything relating to the subject we’re speaking of.
Finally, I didn’t say it was okay to kill, and I didn’t mean to insinuate that or anything similar by saying love has no boundaries. I didn’t mean it was okay to do anything sinful or immoral; all I meant was, God loves us and accepts us as His children if we believe in Him, no matter what. And our salvation is still secure, because God loves us despite our sin. THAT was what I meant by love has no boundaries.

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Jack Wellman April 17, 2017 at 3:19 pm

Thank you Helen. I will make one last comment but God’s Word tells us to abstain from every appearance of evil and couples who live together may find it impossible to not lust after one another and Jesus equated that with adultery (Matt 5), and if they are believer’s who have faith in the Lord, they will desire to live lives that pleases the Lord. God loves us despite our sins, but will not condone our sin.

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Jack Wellman April 17, 2017 at 4:40 pm

I am sorry. I did re-read your comments and I see what you are saying, so I am sorry for my misunderstanding exactly what you were saying.

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Helen April 17, 2017 at 5:31 pm

Well, thank you for saying sorry. Again, I’m sorry if I was rude. I have a tendency to get passionate/easily-frustrated at matters such as these, so I’m sorry if I may have offended you. And I appreciate your apology. God bless

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Jack Wellman April 18, 2017 at 9:22 am

I am no better Helen so thank you and I too will be more considerate and God forgive me and thank you so kindly.

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