Are Mormons Christian? What Do They Believe About Jesus?

by Jack Wellman · Print Print · Email Email

What do Mormons believe about Jesus?  Are they Christian?  Are there differences between Mormonism and Christianity?  Is the Jesus in the Bible the same Jesus that the Mormon’s worship and teach about?

What Do Mormons Believe About Jesus?

Mormonism, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is a religion for sure but there are a lot of false religions in the world.  Mormons believe in Jesus but what exactly do they believe about Him and His origins?  They believe that Jesus is the brother of Satan and are these two are sons of God and are spirit brothers.  They believe that Jesus was created and they believe that like all humans, they were spirit before being born into the flesh.  Both Jesus and Satan were given free will to choose to be evil or good and that the earthly life was a testing ground to see if they would qualify to be God or not.  It is like a probation period and if they pass, they become gods.  They acquire divinity by the works that they do while on earth.

At death, all one can hope for is that they did enough good works to make it to become a god and so Jesus is thought to have done enough good works and lived a perfect enough of a life to become a god.  Obviously, Satan failed this test, or at least so they teach.  Mormons teach that spiritual good works are the only way to overcome spiritual death and this is accomplished by keeping the commandments, receiving a proper baptism only through a Mormon priest, having a strong enough faith, and in genuine repentance.  They must also have the Mormon Temple obligations fulfilled properly.  Apparently Jesus must have passed this test according to the Mormons and His baptism must have, I suppose, came through a priestly-sort of John the Baptist, who was not a Mormon that I am aware of.

After the birth of Jesus and Satan, God offered a plan of salvation for human beings and Satan offered his own plan but it was rejected.  God accepted Jesus’ idea as being a Savior and so Jesus’ spirit was sent to Mary who, through a virgin birth, gave birth to Jesus. The Mormons believe that if anyone can live a righteous life like Jesus did, then they will receive eternal life and become a god.  They believe that Jesus was a spirit-brother of Lucifer and therefore was a creation of God and not God from all eternity past (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

Are The Mormons ChristiansWhat Do Mormons Believe About God?

Mormons believe that God is a Supreme Being but they believe that God acquired this status through good works.  God became God gradually by living a righteous and perfect life and that God has a body of flesh and bones, even though the Bible says that God is Spirit (John 4:24).  If a human attains perfection in this life they too can become a god after they die and then this person can produce other “spirit children” to keep on reproducing the potential of other gods.  This newly born god-person can then populate other worlds like earth and so become a god of that planet.  They teach that God in heaven was once a man like those on the earth today but He is seen as an “exalted man” and not God from all eternity (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).  The Father and the Son are seen to be men in perfect stature and form today with flesh and bones (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38). God is said to have been a man who at one time lived on another planet (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 Page 4, 1844. Joseph Smith).  The problem is doesn’t there have to be an original god somewhere that created such spirit beings?  It is the problem of infinite regression because there had to be a Creator for their to be any spirit beings or god-persons.  You must keep going back and back and somewhere, didn’t there have to be an original God Creator?  They miss the logic of this “cause and effect” problem.

The Book of Mormon

Is the Book of Mormon is sacred text to them and is held to be the “most correct” writings or book of Scripture.  This would make it supersede the authority of the Bible because it says that men can get closer to God in this book than any other book (Smith, B. H. Roberts, ed. History of the Church, 4, p. 461).  The Book of Mormon, the Doctrines, and the Pearl of Great Price are seen as divinely inspired but they see the Bible as being constructed in a multi-step process.  They state that they Book of Mormon was not assembled like the Bible and therefore is a better testament.

Is There Archeological Support of Mormon Teachings?

There is actually no archeological proof of the Mormon’s story about the descendants of the Israelites moving to North America from around 2200 B.C. to A.D. 420.  They believe this group spoke Hebrew and were misidentified as Native American Indians.  There records were said to be kept in a “reformed Egypt” for which that nation has absolutely no evidence of.  Both Mormon and non-Mormon archeologists have been unable to unearth evidence of these Jewish tribes in America.   Both historians and archeologists believe the claims to be false since their historical accounts have no such artifacts which is surprising since the Nephites and Lamanites are said to have existed for several hundred years.

The trusted National Geographic Society sent a letter in 1998 to the Institute for Religious Research which stated, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon” (National Geographic Society Statement on the Book of Mormon, Aug. 12th, 1998).   The Book of Mormon purports to have had horses on the continent from around 2500 BC, that there were elephants native to the continent, cattle and cows, sheep, goats, barley, swine, wheat, and much more.  The major problem is that there is no amount of evidence to support these claims.  Further, they stated that they had used concrete, metal swords, and other utensils not found in the B.C. era in North America.  Regardless of all that they claim, there is not one shred of physical evidence to support it.

Another Gospel

The test that is given to see if a gospel message was the one that was once delivered is what others are teaching.  These teachings hinge on the deity, divinity, and eternality of Jesus Christ.  That is, that He has always existed and was not created (John 1).  Every religion in the world, including Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses are based upon works.  If you do enough good works you might make it to heaven, but just like Buddhism, Islam, and the other world religions, one can never be sure enough about having done sufficient good works to make it to heaven or for other religions a reincarnation or a state of Nirvana.  For the Christian, it is a relief that works is not required to be saved because God sees our works as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

The Book of Mormon is said to be new revelation or Scripture from God but the Bible itself claims that a curse is to be pronounced upon anyone who adds to or takes away the words of God, the Bible, in both the Old Testament and in the New.  Revelation 22:18-19 states, I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll:  If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.”  Deuteronomy 4:2 reads, Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you. These are serious warnings from God.  We have today all of the revelation that we need from God. This is why modern day prophets are dangerous and cultic.  They are trying to speak for God and they are their own source, which makes them extra-biblical…heretical, and false.

Paul warned the churches in the New Testament that there would be false gospels brought in by false shepherds in writing to the Galatians (1:8), But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” Where it says, “let him be accursed” the literal translation is “let him be eternally condemned!”  That is about as serious of a warning that Paul ever gave.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Christian.  They are a cult and believe that they are the only ones who have the truth and that all other religions are pagan.  This is not my personal opinion but as compared to the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ.  This religion, like all other religions in the world, base their salvation upon works when the Bible clearly says that it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8). If salvation were by works, there would be none that would make it because our works, at best, are just a bunch of filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).  I thank God that this is the only works we need to do and Jesus told us in John 6:29, This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

We are not trying to judge the Mormon’s ourselves.  The Word of God is what we stand on.  We must witness to them and do so in love and not judgmentally or in condemnation.  But we must witness to them nonetheless.  A great way is to use the Law of God and point them to Jesus as the only One Who has ever kept the Law perfectly.  His perfect life is imputed to us as righteousness and this is how we are made acceptable to God the Father.  No works could ever do this. Romans 5:9-10 says is perfectly, we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

We should love them enough to witness to them, share the gospel with them, tell them that their own rituals or works can never save them, that they still have the wrath of God abiding on them, to repent, and turn to the One Who has made satisfaction with the Father…and that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified for us…and for them or anyone if they would trust in Him.

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kim July 31, 2012 at 6:36 am

Good article but difficult to read with typographical and grammatical errors.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 2:41 pm

Thank you Kim. I am glad you enjoyed it. Could you please point out the grammatical errors and typos on this article so that I could clean them up? I proof read it and spell and grammar checked it so please tell me where it is not written correctly. Thank you.

Hd August 1, 2012 at 12:14 pm

As an English teacher, I can say the only fault is in BC and AD. The BC comes after the date, and the AD follows the date. Maybe someone is being hypersensitive?

Hd August 1, 2012 at 12:15 pm

Sorry, but I meant that the AD precedes the date.

Jack Wellman August 1, 2012 at 3:57 pm

Thank you HD. I appreciate your words being so full of grace. I am not the sharpest crayon in the box so I see what you are saying now and let me say, I thank God for such readers as you my friend. Have a blessed day.

Jack Wellman August 1, 2012 at 4:16 pm

Thank you my good friend. I appreciate people like you my friend. You’re the reason I love this site.

Jack Wellman August 1, 2012 at 2:23 pm

Thank you HD. That is why only the Bible is inerrant. I stand correct with apologies to you. Yes, I must have been oversensitive and so for that, I am most sorry and thank you for correcting me. That’s why your an English teacher and I am not. I am indebted to you. I should have known better and have not done this before so I appreciate your keen eye. Its been corrected.

Hd August 1, 2012 at 3:55 pm

I certainly didn’t mean that you were over sensitive! I mean that with all the Bible- based facts you gave, Kim was too harsh to criticize your grammar or punctuation. I found your article wonderful and helpful!

Hd August 1, 2012 at 4:12 pm

I didn’t mean you were, Jack! I meant with all the Bible-based facts you gave, Kim was being a bit too sensitive about your article. It was wonderful!

Carlee July 31, 2012 at 9:28 am

A true God would not want his people to simply praise him throughout all eternity. That is the least godlike thing I have ever heard. A true and just God would want his children to have the same opportunities of progression and glory as He himself has had, and not simply just exist to blow trumpets as He walks by. How does that inspire a desire to do good works and gain knowledge on this earth?

Additionally, I do not find it fair for people to decide who is Christian and who is not. I truly believe that the Mormons are 100% Christian. The foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the teaching that Jesus Christ is the devine Lord and Savior. So for people to simply claim they are not Christian because of human-produced criteria is asinine, and again, un-Christian. They are not a cult. This is offensive and simply untrue. Their devotion is aimed directly at God. It is the foundation of their religion. If they are a cult, then everybody who worships God is a cult, correct?

Additionally, if prophets existed during the time of the bible, what makes you think we don’t need them every bit as much in our current day? Again, that seems like an unjust God to provide direction for some people, but not continue to provide that direction forevermore. Things change. Times change. The world and its challenges change. He has provided scripture to keep us on the correct path, but there are still challenges and obstacles that exist today that He needs to help us overcome. Again, seems like only an unjust God would leave us hanging during some truly difficult times. He is there to keep us on the right path through a living prophet, just as He did in the days of the bible.

And finally, the Mormons aren’t out to prove that other religions aren’t Christian. They worry about themselves and what they know to be true. Perhaps the “Christians” who are out to prove Mormon’s aren’t Christian can worry about themselves and their beliefs instead of trying to prove the truthfulness of theirs by putting others down and claiming things that are simply not true.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 2:47 pm

Thank you Carlee for your comment. You said that I wrote, apparently, “A true God would not want his people to simply praise him throughout all eternity. That is the least godlike thing I have ever heard.” Can you show me where I wrote that? I could not find it in my article.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was created and was the brother of Lucifer? Where in the Bible does it say that in the latter days more prophets will come? If you believe that Jesus was created and that God the Father was also created and that at one time they were human, then this is a false religion. God, by definition has always existed and God the Father and Jesus the Son of God has always existed and both are without beginning. Jesus and Lucifer (Satan) are brothers? Do you really believe that?

Nelson May 12, 2013 at 11:31 am

Why did they scrub your last comment? I tried to repost it but they would not let me either.

Michael July 31, 2012 at 12:11 pm

another great article such an eye opener.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 2:49 pm

Thank you Michael. Your comment has been the only one, so far, that has been edifying sir.

Gail July 31, 2012 at 4:22 pm

Very well said Jack…

Josh July 31, 2012 at 3:28 pm

I really learned a lot in this article, Jack. Thanks for putting this together.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 4:25 pm

Your welcome Josh. I hope that people understand we are not attacking Mormons…but just their theology. We are to love and pray for all.

Gail July 31, 2012 at 4:23 pm

Very well said Jack.

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Gail, thank you so much for your kind words.

Gail July 31, 2012 at 5:35 pm

Gail Michael Just do what I did & be absolutely sure for your self. I was raised up in a Methodist church as a child. When I graduated I was married & divorced very young, in my twenties. I got away from church, the bible, & praying. I started drugs drinking & going the way I wanted to do every thing my way. I lost a lot and I had no way to turn. I was in the streets. I was tired of living that way and I cried out to God. He touched me like I’d never been touched before. I was on fire and thought I was the only one who ever had an experience like this. It was like I was on a mountain all by my self looking down yelling at everyone saying, ” Hey you guys do what I did, you got to have this” I experience the best high of my life. One of the first things I did was call my Mom and tell her I never wanted to have any drugs or alcohol in my body again, ever, all I wanted to have was the Spirit of the Lord. I started reading my Bible is all I wanted to do, because now I could understand everything I was reading, it was alive. After a couple of years of going to this church the Lord took me to the scripture he used to touch and save me. I’ll not forget to say also, to light my fire. He first took me to John 3:16, then he took me to John 1:12, next he took me to Matt 7:7, and then to Phil 4:13, yep, after I did all this he was in my heart. There were many hard time even after I did all this and one time I remember I called my preacher crying and telling him I wished I never got saved. He would laugh at me and say ” Well he’s in there now and you can’t get him out. He would assure me a tell me to go get my Bible and read Habakkuk 17-18-19. When I did that, I was okay.

Gail July 31, 2012 at 5:56 pm

Gail Michael
Just do what I did & be absolutely sure for your self. I was raised up in a Methodist church as a child. When I graduated I was married & divorced very young, in my twenties. I got away from church, the bible, & praying. I started drugs drinking & going the way I wanted to do every thing my way. I lost a lot and I had no way to turn. I was in the streets. I was tired of living that way and I cried out to God. He touched me like I’d never been touched before. I was on fire and thought I was the only one who ever had an experience like this. It was like I was on a mountain all by my self looking down yelling at everyone saying, ” Hey you guys do what I did, you got to have this” I experience the best high of my life. One of the first things I did was call my Mom and tell her I never wanted to have any drugs or alcohol in my body again, ever, all I wanted to have was the Spirit of the Lord. I started reading my Bible is all I wanted to do, because now I could understand everything I was reading, it was alive. After a couple of years of going to this church the Lord took me to the scripture he used to touch and save me. I’ll not forget to say also, to light my fire. He first took me to John 3:16, then he took me to John 1:12, next he took me to Matt 7:7, and then to Phil 4:13, yep, after I did all this he was in my heart. There were many hard time even after I did all this and one time I remember I called my preacher crying and telling him I wished I never got saved. He would laugh at me and say ” Well he’s in there now and you can’t get him out. He would assure me a tell me to go get my Bible and read Habakkuk 17-18-19. When I did that, I was okay.

Derek Hill July 31, 2012 at 7:54 pm

Superb job again Jack! This was very informative and easy to read. I don’t understand why anyone would believe that Jesus and Satan could possibly be spirit brothers. That would mean they came from the same “god” and that would also mean that that “god” was not omniscient. If the “god” that created them did not know what would happen, that takes all of the power from him and places it on the humans. Furthermore, in Mormon belief, if Christ was allowed to be born of a virgin, was satan also? If so, it really disturbs me to think that one could think the most evil being ever was in someone’s belly for nine months. If he was not given a physical birth through a woman, then the so called “test” isn’t even fair. The environments would be different and could not possibly be compared to one another. There are many flaws in this logic. Thank you again for a great article!

Derek

Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 8:02 pm

Thank you Derek. As I said before, we should love them enough to witness to them, share the gospel with them, tell them that their own rituals or works can never save them, that they still have the wrath of God abiding on them, to repent, and turn to the One Who has made satisfaction with the Father…and that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified for us…and for them or anyone if they would trust in Him. Being good is not good enough unless the righteousness of Christ abides in them. Jesus is the propitiation (satisfaction) to make us in a right standing before God the Father on Judgment Day. Thanks bro.

Deborah July 31, 2012 at 10:38 pm

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I wanted to share the last part of that verse: Not of works, lest any man should boast. I also believe adding to or taking away applies to different reproductions of the bible and that the original King James Version is the only bible that should be read and taught.
I still would rather have a mormon president that some communist, muslim president destined and hell-bent on destroying the U.S. I say hell-bent because I truly believe Barry is one of the devil’s closest disciples. Please pray for our country, pray that the upcoming president will see the truth and lead the country in a way that God would be pleased and spare us His wrath on the world. The end is near, closer if we continue to follow a man who worships a false prophet. Jesus Christ is the only way to God.

Steven August 1, 2012 at 1:37 pm

It was good until you mentioned that only the KJV should be taught. Then it went downhill. The Word of God does not lose It’s power no matter how good or bad it is translated. Deborah, you have some issues that you need to surrender to God.

Deborah August 1, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Steven, did you help publish the NIV? Have you compared the translations? By changing one word or several words can change the whole meaning of the verse. Read the above version of Rev 22:19 in the article, then read the following: Revelation 22:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
How is the tree of life easier to understand? I believe the verse is talking about the Lamb’s book of life, which is a different entity entirely. This is just a small example of how a lay person took the KJV and twisted the meaning of numerous scriptures. My father has a 5th grade education and has always taught and understood the KJV, probably more so than many biblical scholars.

Steven August 2, 2012 at 2:17 pm

Deborah,
I take it you don’t like the NIV. What you fail to realize is that when anything is translated, it is usually not perfect. So, if you really want to go down that road, why translate at all? Let’s stick to reading Greek, Hebrew, and Amharic. How do you know that the Chinese Bible translation isn’t butchered beyond belief?
I use several English translations in my studies and sometimes even a Spanish version. The whole point being to study the word and then make my decision based on as much information as I can.

Deborah August 2, 2012 at 7:16 pm

Translation Philosophy
The NIV translators worked with the text in order to produce a contemporary and idiomatic translation. The NIV is not a word-for-word or a paraphrase translation.
Is this not adding unto the word, I think it’s ironic that this article uses a version of the Bible that is not word-for-word, especially since that is what it is about. I believe the KJV is available in all languages.

Jack Wellman August 2, 2012 at 7:23 pm

Thank you Deborah. Can you please point out to me which of the Scriptures needs correction that I have used here so I can sincerely know. I am not trying to be oversensitive, I truly do want to know if it has affected the context or main thrust of this article. In church, I give my messages out of the KJV for the fact that my old, beloved, and worn KJV Bible has all my notes, and I love it because it has in the margins the original Greek and Hebrew in it. Thank you so much Deborah.

Deborah August 3, 2012 at 9:13 pm

Jack,
Great article,it answered a lot of questions I had about mormon beliefs.I didn’t care for the article on which Bible to choose, since some are not word-for-word translations. This is really not the point I was trying to incur, though. I assumed the article was written because one of the presidential candidates is a mormon. My concern is that if we re-elect the current president, it is not gonna matter which Bible we read because, like the right to bear arms will be taken away, so will the right to religious freedom! Some may say this is an extreme assumption, but I believe with all my heart that this will happen. So who are we suppose to vote for? A muslim or a mormon? At least mormons do believe in Jesus, even though their other beliefs are way off. The USA has really left God out of everything and a lot of Christians have become lax to keep from stepping on someone’s toes. I believe Jesus teaches us to love everyone, but not to give into their wicked ways. Their are people that I love that are gay, drunks, believe it is okay to have an abortion, commit adultery, etc., but it is wrong! Thanks Jack for all you do to lead people to Christ, which is the main point!

Robert August 3, 2012 at 10:05 am

Hi Deborah,
I would like to suggest you read this article by Mr. Wellman. God bless you.

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/five-tips-for-picking-the-best-bible-translation/

Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman August 4, 2012 at 12:25 pm

Thank you so kind Deborah. This article was not really written to support or show non-support for the presidential candidate Mitt Romney. It was written for the purpose of helping us to understand what Mormons believe. I am not saying that you were saying that. If I had the choice, I would support Mr. Romney for his pro-life stance and not vote for not vote for him because of his religious beliefs. I believe he would be a better choice.

I love what you said that Jesus teaches us to love one another. So true. We must also speak the truth as you so rightly said, We are to love those who are alcoholics, gay or lesbian, and so on, but we can not condone their behavior because Paul said, “of such were some of you” meaning that they had to repent and place their trust in Christ. Thank you so very much for speaking the truth, politically correct or not…it is still the truth. I thank God for you my friend.

Robert August 1, 2012 at 12:15 pm

Jack,
Excellent article, my friend. I’m glad you stressed the point that Christians shouldn’t hate Mormons, but we are told to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). It is not loving to withhold the knowledge of salvation from someone. It may be ‘tolerant’ to do that, but that kind of ‘tolerance’ can lead to eternal death.
Great job.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman August 1, 2012 at 4:21 pm

Thank you so much Robert. What amazes me is that, “There go I only but by the grace of God…”. I love your comment that to be tolerant leading to eternal death. The opposite of love in my opinion is not hate, it is tolerance….or indifference. Great point brother.

Iyanth Ponder August 2, 2012 at 4:03 am

Excellent article Jack and I loved Gail’s testimony! A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory!

Jack Wellman August 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm

Thank you Iyanth. I love that quote for sure. The truth is immutable…the ways of mankind, not so much. Blessings to you friend.

Stacey August 2, 2012 at 10:15 pm

Hi–please excuse grammatical errors. 🙂
I just wanted to clarify a few things as a “mormon” myself. I was a bit disturbed in your article that you reiterated over and over how members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints think they can only work their way to heaven. I have to tell you this is wrong. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that it is only through Him and His sacrifice that I can be saved. I can live my life the best I know how, but I will always fall short. That is why I accept Christ as my Savior, and always will. The Church and its members do a lot of “good works”, but that isn’t how we gain salvation. That is just helping our brother, and being God’s hands. Salvation only comes through Jesus Christ.
As far as the eternal progression discussion. I do believe that we will have opportunities to learn and grow in heaven. I’m sure God will work that all out. We are His children and He has our best interest at heart. I’m not too worried about all that. I believe in a merciful and just God.
And about Satan. I believe he was a powerful spirit in the life before this one and that he made a really bad decision. He wanted to have all the power and glory. God the Father knew who he was and what would happen. No surprises there. He sent Christ to save us. Satan never made it to earth, never was born like Christ. But is still pretty mad that he doesn’t have a body like all of us.
Also members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints want to share what they know with others. They don’t think of others as being wrong, but that we can add to what others know. I believe there is more than, “till death do us part” or “as long as you both shall live”. And if a prophet really is on the earth, wouldn’t you want to know? That’s why our missionaries go out at their own expense for 1 1/2 or 2 years, sometimes getting doors slammed in their faces, leaving their families, and their schooling to share the gospel with those who want to hear it. I have two missionaries out serving the Lord right now. And we are truly blessed for it.
I think that we should all live like we believe. I consider myself a Christian by the definition that I follow and believe Christ and accept Him as my Savior.
At the end of the day if I have lived my life the best way I know how, accepting Christ as my Savior, believing in and following His ways, as taught in the Bible, and yes, The Book of Mormon.(which is another Testament that Christ lived) Serving and loving others and sharing with others what I know. I trust that I will be saved just like all of you.

Robert August 3, 2012 at 10:01 am

Hi Stacey,
I’ve always heard that, if I want to know what Mormons believe, I should ask a Mormon. Just as I would expect anyone wanting to know what, or why, I believe, they should ask me. So, my question is, when the Bible and the Book of Mormon come into conflict on an issue, which one do you believe? I have no doubt you are sincere in your beliefs, I’m just trying to understand a bit better.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men August 4, 2012 at 9:33 pm

How can perfect get better, and if we will be like Christ, no sin in heaven how can we get better?

Randy August 5, 2012 at 4:47 am

As an ex-mormon I say the article was right on. We were taught that Jesus and Lucifer were spirit brothers, both conceived from God, the Father. We were taught that we needed works for our salvation, such as tithing a certain amount, following temple rituals in getting married, participating in baptism for the dead, getting our families sealed, going on a mission, and many other things. We were taught that the only way to achieve the highest level of Heaven was to be Mormon.
The hardest part about witnessing to Mormons is their strength in their beliefs. We were taught at an early age that all other religions, including mainstream Christianity, are wrong, and we should repel their beliefs. The teachings of the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price supercede that of the Bible so there is a lot of difficulty trying to teach true Christianity. The fact is, their are many contradictions between the Bible and the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has been changed many times since it was first written, while the Bible has stayed virtually consistant throughout the centuries. When you read the Book of Mormon you are supposed to feel a “burning in your bosom” which proves, to Mormons, that it is a correct, spiritual text.
I started reading and studying the Bible early in my adulthood, which, with the help of Holy Spirit, led me away from Mormonism. It still took about fifteen years before all doubts were gone. One thing I took away from the Mormon church was to test my beliefs. I don’t choose my Christianity solely on spiritual feelings. By reading and studying the Bible regularly I have come to the conclusion that it is the true word of God. In my opinion the best way to help someone that is being led in the wrong direction is to encourage them to do this. Patience, love, understanding and lots of prayer is the best way to witness. Mormons are so indoctrinated by their teachings that it extremely difficult to get past them. It takes time.

Jack Wellman August 5, 2012 at 6:53 pm

Randy, thank you so very much my friend for this powerful comment. Truly God led you to say these things. We passionately desire that they come to the realization that the Word of God stands above all human beliefs, books, and teachings for it will never pass away. I so agree with your comment. The Bible has the power to change a human heart like no other can (Prov 21:1).

anu August 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm

hi jack …..i never knew about mormons this page opend new things to me
thank you for sharing
i m glad to see an ex mormon chip in and sharing whats true

Jack Wellman August 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm

Anu, thank you so kindly for your comment and words of grace. I have no animosity toward Mormon’s but truly love them and pray for some that I know of that they would understand that Jesus Christ wants them to come to know Him as having always existed and that He desires to save them, as well as those who have no knowledge of God. My desire is that they too might come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, their Savior, as without beginning and without end.

phishing4men August 7, 2012 at 9:15 pm

Good article

danii August 22, 2012 at 4:58 pm

Jack,
I just wanted to say I came across this site while trying to choose a new Bible, and I have been enjoying reading your articles and the comments people leave. The above article about Mormons has been very informative as I have been curious about their beliefs for a while, and this article has helped me find a better understanding and hopefully better equipped to witness.
Thanks

Jack Wellman August 22, 2012 at 7:35 pm

Hello Danii. Thank you so much my friend. I pray for the Mormons that they would come to clearly see that Jesus is God and as God, which by definition is without beginning and without end, has always been God. I don’t see them as an enemy but want to love them and pray for them and I thank God that you want to witness to them. Wow. Few try and I am glad you want to know more about them for the right reason. One Scripture that might help is Heb 7:3 where it says about Jesus that He was “Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.”

Also in John 1:1 it says “”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. ” but the Mormons insert, “and the Word was ‘a’ God.” which is not in the original Greek texts.

Shelli September 21, 2012 at 4:54 pm

This was my first red flag of the Republican nomination . . . Taking to prayer because I cannot vote for either candidate this year.

t126 February 6, 2013 at 11:11 pm

maybe you should learn more about our religion the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints directly from the source lds.org or the book of Mormon itself we believe in Jesus and repentance there is a lot more than good bad hell and heaven we believe that all men can be saved that after death we have a opportunity to repent and that we will be happy where we end up that is the purpose of the plan is happiness that is all god wants for us and we DO believe in the bible and we have no idea where god came from or how everything started we are only human and all make mistakes and god understands that. we also believe that a lot of other religions have pieces of truth and we do not believe that if you are not “Mormon” that you cant be saved that is complete false doctrine and i really don’t like the term Mormonism it leads people to think falsely about us please try to learn the truth about our religion from our religion how do you expect to learn about one religion from a different religion it makes no sense and we are normal people we are not a cult that is so offensive and we do not wish to alienate any other religion out of our lives and are taught to love everyone because we are all sons and daughters of god and we are not saved because we pay our tithing or get baptized or do temple work that is our own choice our own sacrifices to help our church we devote two years serving god and our church on a mission but we do not have to that is our own choice. please try to understand. 🙂

Robert February 7, 2013 at 11:12 am

t126,
I would love to know more about Mormon beliefs. It seems to me that the most important difference in how mainstream Christians and Mormons differ is in each of their definitions of who Jesus is.
Who is Jesus, according to Mormon beliefs? and How is one forgiven of his or her sins in Mormon doctrine?
Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men February 7, 2013 at 2:35 pm

“try to learn the truth about our religion from our religion how do you expect to learn about one religion from a different religion it makes no sense”
You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. The U S Treasury Dept does not ask their investigators to round up all the counterfeit monies and study them to be able to determine the counterfeit, they know exactly what the genuine is so any counterfeit will will be readily exposed. We(Christians) do not have to study all the false religions to determine the genuine, as one studies the Holy Bible and knows it thoroughly the false religions will be evident. Any one who believes Jesus was half brother to Lucifer is deceived just one of a multitude of lies taught by LDS.
“we do not believe that if you are not “Mormon” that you cant be saved that is complete false doctrine”
You really need to learn more about your own belief, your above statement is simply not true.

Mica March 15, 2013 at 12:29 am

I am glad I found this article. I have been curious about this religion and others. I feel like the best way for me as a Christian to successfully witness to those of different beliefs is to have some knowledge of what they actually believe. It was well written and a big help. God Bless!

Jack Wellman March 15, 2013 at 10:30 am

Thank you so much Mica. I am glad that you care enough to try and share the truth of the gospel with those who don’t actually know that Jesus is fully God and has been God for all eternity. May God richly bless you in your evangelism to those in error.

Nelson April 21, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

Jack Wellman April 21, 2013 at 1:16 pm

Thank you Nelson. Which Scripture and verses are these from my friend? Is there a point you wish to make sir? Are you a Mormon? Thanks for visiting us.

Nelson April 21, 2013 at 1:34 pm

Sorry my intent was not to offend. The point i was trying to make was that if i was a pastor and i said this from the pulpit, would you consider this a true inspired statement?
Thanks

Jack Wellman April 21, 2013 at 1:43 pm

No sir, you did not offend me. I was just asking why these Scriptures were used. I not only would say them from the pulpit, but I have said them. I only quote Scripture and this is based on what God says, not what I say. We are commanded to (2 Tim 4:2) “Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.”

Elsewhere, Titus 1:13 “This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.” and in Titus 2:15 “These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.” and 1 Timothy 5:20 “But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.”

In fact (2 Tim 3:16) “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.”

Those who cling to “Judge not, that ye be not judged, ” to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing… ” (v. 15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by the Word of God? If we know the false prophets, how can we fail to exam the sheep of these “ravening wolves?” All through the Bible we find proof that they should be identified and exposed.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit” (vs. 16,17). Did the Lord mean that we could not judge the tree (person), by the fruit of their life and doctrine? Certainly not, for you cannot know without judging. All judgment should be on the basis of Bible teaching, not according to whims or prejudices.

“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment ” (John 7:24). Here our Lord commands that we are to “judge righteous judgment, ” which is judgment based upon the Word of God. If judgment is made upon any other basis, other than the Word of God, it is a violation of Matt. 7: 1. Webster’s Dictionary says that a judge is “one who declares the law. “The faithful Christian must discern or judge on the basis of God’s inspired law, the Bible.”

We are to TRY them. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (I John 4: 1). All doctrine and teachers are to be tried according to the Word of God. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa. 8:20). Every message, messenger, and method is to be judged according to the Word of God. The church at Ephesus was commended because they had “tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars ” (Rev. 2:2). The church at Pergamos was rebuked because they tolerated those that held “the doctrine of Balaam, ” and “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate” (Rev. 2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.

We are to MARK them and AVOID them. “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them ” (Rom. 16:17). Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. This requires discernment and judgment in the light of the Bible. The ecumenicalists, new evangelicals, and compromising fundamentalists will resist any effort to obey this Scripture. They cannot be marked and avoided, unless they are judged according to the Word of God.

Nelson April 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm

Jack thanks again for the reply. Are Mormons Christians? Are Catholics Christians? Are Baptists Christians? Who is to be the Judge? Who makes the definitions? I know that Jesus Christ is my personal lord and saviour. He died for me on the cross and payed for my sins. I believe in his gospel that is taught in the bible and i know that he will come again. Am I a christian? Many people believe that I am not because i am a mormon. If we are not christians then who is?

phishing4men April 30, 2013 at 1:52 pm

Jack thanks again for the reply. Are Mormons Christians? Are Catholics Christians? Are Baptists Christians? Who is to be the Judge? Who makes the definitions?
I am not Jack, but the answer is No, No, some Baptist are some are not, God is the judge and sets the definition in His Word the Bible. No one who believes all mormon doctrine, all catholic doctrine and even some Baptist docrine can be a true believer because they add to the Word of God with men’s traditions. If ones denominational traditions come before God’s truth they miss the mark. That is why Jesus said, “Lord Lord did we not cast out demons etc. etc.(do all the good works go to church teach sunday school, give money time) and I will say depart from me I never knew you. You must be born again regardless what denomination you claim and some are just plain heretical, teaching lies. For instance, as the mormans teach that Jesus was a created being rather than the second person of the trinity and the half brother of Lucifer, persist in putting your faith in those lies and you will hear those awful words, “depart from me”

Jack Wellman April 30, 2013 at 10:30 pm

Thank you phishing4men. I agree. The question is which Jesus do they worship? If He is not God from all eternity and simply a half brother of Satan, then He is not Creator and He could not die for our sins for it took an always perfect God to die for all imperfect men.

Nelson May 1, 2013 at 2:58 am

Thanks for the replies. Believe me when I say that I believe in Jesus, I am not dumb. Jesus is Jesus. Not Muhammad, Jake, John, Larry or Moe. Jesus the Christ. The Redeemer of the world. I don’t think it brings any non believer any closer to believing when you demonize everyone who interprets scripture a little differently than you. Calling them devil worshipers and non christians. Lets work together. I don’t think you guys are evil or deceived because we disagree. Maybe I am wrong but I would assume that neither of you attend an LDS church frequently to actually know and understand what we believe and why.
One point that you brought up was on the trinity. Our interpretation differs on this point of doctrine. I am no historian but in the early christian church there was no consensus on this point either. That was one of the points debated during the Council of Nicaea 325 AD. By this time obviously all of the apostles had been killed so the presumptive authority fell with the early catholic church. The church that phishing4men said were not christians. So a non christian church came up with most of the interpretations of the bible that still exist today. Including the doctrine of the trinity.
Here are some scriptures that helped me come to my conclusions on the relationship between God and Jesus.
Luke 3;22 reads ” And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
Acts 7;55 reads “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God”
John 20;17 reads “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
In Luke 23 Jesus, while on the cross he says “Father forgive them for they know not what they do” later on he says “father into thy hands i commend my spirit”
There are about 20 or more verses that references them as being separate distinct beings.
There are other verses that do talk of them being one, but most of them I believe them meaning one in purpose or unified like.
John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
Now if you can see how we believe the trinity to be 3 distinct beings. God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost, I can then answer the next statement you made. If our Father in Heaven is the creator of all of our spirits then we are all spirit brothers and sisters. I think we can agree on that. So, if Jesus is the son of God then he would be our brother also. Wow!!! The best brother ever!!! So let me pose this question. Who created Satan? Would satan not be one of our spirit brothers also? I think he would be. Dang!!! What a crappy brother. So as bad as you make it sound all of the time, Jesus and satan would be spirit brothers, both being created by our Heavenly Father. That is my understanding of it all. We may not agree on all of these points, it is just a different interpretation of the same holy bible. Jack just from reading some of your articles I can tell that you are very knowledgeable and most of the stuff i read i agree with. I have no harsh feelings towards either of you. We fight for the same cause in Christ. How much greater would the world be if all believed in him.
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 1, 2013 at 11:09 am

Thank you Nelson. I too have no harsh feelings toward you sir. My difficulties lie with the Mormon concept of God can best be grasped by understanding the overall Mormon world view and how the deity fits into it. Mormonism teaches that God the Father is a resurrected, “exalted” human being named Elohim who was at one time not God. Rather, he was once a mortal man on another planet who, through obedience to the precepts of his God, eventually attained exaltation, or godhood, himself through “eternal progression.” Omniscience, according to Mormon theology, is one of the attributes one attains when reaching godhood. Has not God, by definition, always existed? Otherwise we must change our definition of what God is.’

There are several philosophical and scientific problems in asserting that the series of events in the past is beginningless. Philosopher William Lane Craig has developed four arguments — two philosophical and two scientific — along these lines. I will apply Craig’s second philosophical argument to the Mormon concept of God: (Premise 1) If the Mormon universe is true, then an infinite number (or distance) has been traversed. (Premise 2) It is impossible to traverse an infinite number (or distance). (Conclusion) Therefore, the Mormon universe is not true. Premise 1 is certainly true. We have seen already that the Mormons fully acknowledge that the past is infinite. And if it is infinite, then certainly an infinite number of events has been traversed to reach today. But can an infinite number actually be traversed.

LDS apologist and theologian Brigham H. Roberts. Roberts authored the six-volume Comprehensive History of the Church and in 1921, a man investigating Mormonism asked Roberts to answer five questions. These questions vexed Roberts, because he could find no suitable answer. He then posed those same five questions to LDS President Heber J. Grant, Grant’s counselors, the Twelve Apostles, and to the Quorum of the Seventy. They too, were unable to provide suitable answers. Many of the recently excommunicated Mormon scholars mentioned in the last paragraph wrote academic articles conceding to these same difficulties. These five questions are:

Linguistics. Why, if the American Indians were descended from Lehi, was there such diversity in their languages, and why were there no vestiges of Hebrew in any of them?

Why does the Book of Mormon say that Lehi found horses when he arrived in America? The horse did not exist in the Americas until the Spaniards brought them over in the sixteenth century.

Why was Nephi stated to have a bow of steel? Jews did not have steel at that time, and no iron was smelted in the Americas until the Spanish colonization.

Why does the Book of Mormon mention “swords and cimeters” when scimitars (the current spelling) did not come about until the rise of Islam after 500 A.D.?

Why does the Book of Mormon mention silk, when silk did not exist in the Americas at that time?

Let me add my own question here. Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth (History of the Church, 4:461). If that’s true, why has it been subjected to thousands of corrections and alterations since it was first published? Also, some of the LDS scholars to whom I referred in the second paragraph found that the American Indians are genetically more similar to Asians. No Hebrew link can be made through DNA analysis. There is also zero archeological evidence to support the claims of Joseph Smith.

There are also doctrinal discrepancies between the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and other source of LDS doctrine. If the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth, then why the contradictions? For example:

D&C 130:3 says, “The idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.” But in Alma 34:36, it says, “And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell.”

Joseph Smith said, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345) This introduced the doctrine of eternal progression, which Brigham Young forcefully expounded upon. [Eternal Progression teaches that God was once a man who progressed to Godhood, and we humans have the ability to do the same through strict adherence to LDS doctrines and temple rites.] Yet Moroni 8:18 says, “For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable, from all eternity to all eternity.”

When Joseph Smith contradicts the Book of Mormon, we can reach only one of two conclusions. Either he did not write the Book of Mormon under divine guidance and is therefore a false prophet, or he decided to contradict the teachings of God, in which case he is a false prophet. Smith also stated that no one could see God without the Holy Priesthood. Yet according to his own account, he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ nine years before he himself received the priesthood!

Can you explain these discrepancies when the Bible has none?

Nelson May 2, 2013 at 2:02 am

Jack Thanks for the reply. I really don’t see the discrepancies and contradictions that you pointed out. All i see is the anti mormon (political) spin that people put on us. Those statements can be interpreted any way you want.
If the Book of Mormon has been changed so many times, don’t you think they would have changed the horse thing a long time ago. There is a reason for it being in there. The fact of the matter is most of the edits came when the Book of Mormon was put into chapter and verse format. When you spin it and say thousands of corrections you are making a big deal over a bunch of commas, apostrophes, and periods. No major doctrinal changes were made. I would assume the bible would have had some of the same edits when it was put into its current form and translated.
Does the Book of Mormon contradict any teaching in the bible. I think not. That scripture I quoted back on the 21st came right from the Book of Mormon and you even said and I quote “I not only would say them from the pulpit, but I have said them.” We claim that the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. It does not add too or take away from the bible. The bible does not contain every writing of every prophet that has ever lived. I am sure Paul wrote many more epistles and letters than that what we have in the bible. Who are we to say that just because they never made it into the bible that they are any more or less true. Every word that the prophets spoke in the name of the lord i believe is scripture whether in the bible or not. (not sure how the songs of solomon made it in though) Like I wrote to phishing4men, I don’t wish for this to turn into a bash fest. I am only trying to defend my faith and grow in my understanding of others. I would appreciate you telling me what you believe and why. Not telling me what you think that i believe.
Thanks
Nelson

phishing4men May 1, 2013 at 1:01 pm

“We fight for the same cause in Christ.”
I wish this were a true statement, I fight for the cause of the eternally existing non created Christ, you fight for someone who is the half brother of Lucifer, not angry but strongly disagree with you. Your point about the catholics interpreting the Word and establishing most of the doctrine Christians believe in today is simply and untrue statement, they may have wondered in to the truth from time to time but they are a religion of works as is the mormon religion. I believe those following the mormon religion to be deceived, but that does not prove me angry with them or you, rather pray for a true revelation from God for each of them. Mormons have many good qualities, and are very moral, but so were the pharisees. I have compassion for you Nelson and will leave the apologetics up to my brother Jack, so I will continue to pray for you not because I am any thing special or better than you for I too was once blind, but by God’s grace now I see. May God draw you and show you mercy and grace that you may come to know Him and the power of His resurrection.
by grace alone

Nelson May 1, 2013 at 11:59 pm

Phishing4men did you even bother to read my last comment because your last two statements are exactly the same. What was so untrue about my statements? Who compiled the books of the bible together? Who decided what went in and what stayed out? What were the differing points of doctrine that the early councils of the church tried to clarify and reach consensus? How do YOU explain those scriptures referencing God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit? I am interested in what you have to say about those topics. I don’t want this to turn into a “you bash me i bash you” type of discussion. More a you tell me what you believe and why and I say what I believe and why. I don’t expect us to agree on all things, i just wish for understanding.
Thanks
Nelson

Robert May 2, 2013 at 7:49 am

When we do not stand on the truth of the Bible, and the Bible alone, we open ourselves up to all kinds of incorrect beliefs. Then, anyone with enough charisma to gather a following can produce a work of literature, say it came from God, and build a religion around it. Joseph Smith created a book that resulted in a religion that is separate from Christianity, hence, the continuing debate concerning Mormonism and Christianity.

Any religion that claims a person must ‘perform’ certain rituals is a religion based on works, it is not based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, and can rightly be called a ‘different gospel’, which we are warned about in Scripture.

Satan’s temptation in the Garden to Adam and Eve was that, if they ate the fruit, they would become gods themselves. This is part of the teachings of the Mormon religion also (please correct me if I am mistaken), as it is Mormon belief that God was formerly a human who became God. To seek to attain godhood ourselves is simply a form of idolatry. The Bible reveals that God is the eternally existent Creator and we are His creation. He rightly deserves our worship, submission, obedience, and love. The Bible says that there is one God (it also reveals that God exists as three persons) not an endless progression of many gods.

As I began, we either take the Bible as Truth, or we open ourselves up to deception in many forms. It is my prayer that Mormons (and all others) would consider how their beliefs conflict with the teachings of the Bible, trust God to show them the truth, and live by that truth. God has revealed Himself, and what we need to know to be saved, in His Word. There is no need to look any further.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

Nelson May 2, 2013 at 11:39 am

Robert thanks for the comment. Do you believe in baptism? Would you consider baptism to be a ritual of form of works that the bible says we must do? Was Jesus not baptized to show us the way? Like I have said from the beginning, I believe the bible to be true. Every Christian church just interprets it differently.
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 2, 2013 at 11:50 am

Robert, I can not certainly speak for Robert but let me say that baptism doesn’t save anyone, only Christ saves (Acts 4:12, 16:30-31) and baptism is no more a work than is trying to be obedient to the command to be baptized after one is saved. Jesus was baptized, yes, to show us the way, but He was sinless and needed not to be baptized but gave us an example. Jesus needed works no more than we do. Jesus is that Rock as 1 Cor 10:3-4 says, “They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

By the way, Christian churches should not interpret the Bible differently because we are to let the Bible interpret itself by comparing Scripture by other Scriptures. You may worship Christ but we are told in the Bible to never worship anything or anyone but God and since Mormon’s believe Jesus was a created being, then this is sin, according to Mormon doctrine. The trust is that Jesus said before Abraham even existed, He did (John 8:58). I am just troubled that Mormon’s are worshiping a different Jesus than the always-existent,ever-lasting, God without beginning, Jesus Christ. He was the “I AM” of the Old Testament and His Covenant Name Yahweh testifes when He said to Moses “I AM that I AM” meaning He is God Who needs no outside cause for He was, is, and always will be.

Robert May 2, 2013 at 2:15 pm

Nelson,
I do not believe the Bible teaches that baptism is required for one to be saved (see Mr. Wellman’s comment), else the thief on the cross next to Jesus (the one to whom Jesus promised paradise) would not be saved, which would mean Jesus was lying…which He certainly was not.

We should all be searching for God’s truth. Is it contained in the Bible, or not? I believe it is.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

Nelson May 2, 2013 at 1:54 pm

I get that we are only saved through Christ but you never answered my question on baptism. Mark 16:16 reads”He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” If someone wants to be saved they need to be baptized as well as believe. Is that not correct? You say that you would not consider baptism a work, however it is a physical act that we are commanded to do in order to be saved as the bible says.
You said that the bible will interpret its self. So if there are 20 scriptures that clearly reference god the father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit as being 3 seperate and distinct beings but then you say they are all one and the same being which interpretation is correct?
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 2, 2013 at 2:08 pm

The answer my friend is in the verse itself, Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” It does not say that “”He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not “and is not baptized” shall be damned.” How clear that is sir. He or she that does not believe is damned….not, he or she that does not believe and is not baptized. Clear biblical exegesis reveals what Jesus is saying. A person is damned for not believing, not for not being baptized. Jesus Himself said in John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” So you are not correct in saying ” If someone wants to be saved they need to be baptized as well as believe” A person is saved by putting their trust in Christ, not in water baptism. Condemnation comes from not believing in Him…not from not being baptized.

By thew way, Jesus said “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 10:36 Jesus said, “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?: and in John 17:21 “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”

What do you say sir about Jesus saying “before Abraham was, I Am” (John 8:58)? and Jesus is that Rock as 1 Cor 10:3-4 says, “They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.”

phishing4men May 2, 2013 at 5:07 pm

Nelson, are you here genuinely searching for the truth or just to prove your point. You are getting a little argumentative, rather than seeking answers you continue to push the mormon view point. May I ask why you never capitalize Bible always using the lower case….is it because you place the book of mormon and church tradition over the Word of God? If you want to argue join a debate team, this is not the arena for prolonged argument…just my opinion and not the author of the sites opinion. The trinity is what the author and his friends believe and if you don’t so be it move on and proselyte on a site of your own making. If you are truly seeking for the truth here, I will admit I am wrong in my assessment and would seek you forgiveness, but it seems to not be so. God speed, I pray you will be given eyes to see and ears to hear truth that you might gain eternal life by grace alone.

Nelson May 4, 2013 at 11:11 pm

Phishing4men
I apologize if I may come across as a bit argumentative. That is not my intention here. This is an article on Mormons being Christians and I thought it would be good to get a Mormons point of view on the matter. I also apologize for my poor grammar and capitalization. I am not an English major I am a farmer. Accually I am in a tractor right now seeding so this message might have some grammatical mistakes as well. I do not hold any book above the BIBLE. I study it regularly. I also study from the Book of Mormon. I believe it also to be true as another testament of Jesus Christ. when used with the Bible it helps me in my understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for your comment on the trinity. I obviously believe that they are 3 separate and distinct beings. God the father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. I have looked at all of the scriptures that both side use to defend their view and I have no idea how one can come up with that they are one and the same being. When the bible says “And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. (New Testament, Luke, Chapter 3) or how Jesus constantly says “my father and our father. So if you Jack or anyone else could please explain that would be great. the way you make it sound, the reason you think Mormons are not Christians all stem from our interpretation of that doctrine. It seems clear to me.
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm

You said, “the Book of Mormon. I believe it also to be true as another testament of Jesus Christ” Really? What archeological evidence, historical evidence, prophetic (oh, that’s right, there are none) evidence is in it. God has warned us twice in the Bible to not add to or take away from His Word or that person’s name will be taken out of the Book of Life. Do you see how serious that is my friend?

I have questions for you about that Book of Mormon:

If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon.

If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions?

Mormon Article of Faith #8: “We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.” Why do you only add the phrase, “as far as it is translated correctly” to describe the Bible and not after the book of Mormon when in fact there are far more translating errors in the Book of Mormon than the Bible?

Since you say that the Book of Mormon is “another” testament of Jesus Christ, then how can it have so many errors? And since Mormonism teaches that only God the Father had a physical body at the time Adam was created, why did God say, “Let us make man in OUR image”? Why didn’t He say, “Let us make man in MY image?”

Robert May 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm

Nelson,
Since we are in discussion mode, and I really am only seeking to understand (like you are). Do you believe you will attain godhood? And, if you do, how is this done? I have read Christian apologist’s views on this, but I would actually like to get a Mormon’s view of it. God bless you.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Nelson May 5, 2013 at 1:31 am

Hi Robert
Do you have an email? I wrote a fairly lengthy answer to your question so it would probably be better in an email
Thanks
Nelson

Robert May 5, 2013 at 9:46 am

Hi Nelson,
Here it is:
[email protected]

Nelson May 6, 2013 at 12:00 am

Jack
I wish to keep this a positive discussion. I am not trying to put down any of your theology so please do the same with mine. There is a reason that there are over 20,000 different Christian churches. No one can agree. We don’t get anywhere if we just bash the other. Thanks.
Is there archaeological evidence that Moses parted the red sea? Evidence that Kane slew Able? How about evidence that Jesus walked on water? Do the things of God need science to prove they are true. Faith is all we need. No scientist needs to prove to me that the Bible is true. I already know it is through my faith in Jesus Christ. There is just as much archaeological evidence for the book of mormon as there is against it. It all depends on who you believe and the prejudices of the researcher.

For me all one has to do is read the book of mormon to know that it is an inspired book. It would be imposable for a 21 year old boy to write a book of that magnitude in the space of a year. The book of mormon does not contradict any teaching in the Bible. So when you quote deuteronomy and the book of revelation on how it says “to not add to or take away from His Word or that person’s name will be taken out of the Book of Life.” The Book of Mormon does not do that. IF your interpretation of Deuteronomy is correct then all of the books of the new testament, since they were written after deuteronomy, you would consider them to be an addition to the word. Also, the Book of Revelation was written before many of the books of the new testament so they would be an addition as well.

I know the book of mormon is true just as i know the bible to be true. We can go back and forth on the Book of Mormon for ever. I know will never change my view on it and you will never change your view as well, so agree to disagree and lets move on.

I go back to the the question I have raised in my past comments on the TRINITY. You have not responded to it yet. You can go back and see the scriptures i quoted on both sides of the matter so i don’t need to repeat them. I can tell you are very knowledgeable on the bible so if there is anyone that can give me a strait answer, you can. What is your explanation?
Thanks
Nelson

Michael May 6, 2013 at 8:26 am

Nelson
Actually there is archaeological evidence that Moses parted the Red Sea since they did discover Egyptian carriages on the riverbed. I don’t remember where I saw this but I do believe that is enough evidence for me to believe in the bible. I’m not bashing your beliefs but I do think the Book of Mormon to be adding to the bible which is a sin in itself. now what evidence do you have to prove the book of Mormon? you wanted evidence of the bible and I just gave you an example. also can you explain the wailing wall over in the holy land. that is believed to be the last standing wall of the temple that was destroyed when Jesus was crucified. of course you are going to have people that disagree with you and you seem to be thinking everyone is against you, just what I’ve noticed in your posts. like everyone else here I’m just trying to understand what Mormons believe. I may not think they are right but what church is perfect? answer None since no one can say for certain which church is right. I personally am a catholic but I’m going to a Methodist church because I feel like I belong there. Don’t get me wrong I love the Catholic Church but I don’t feel comfortable in a Catholic Church any more. but I digress. I think you should clearly try to think on what Jack wrote here and not criticize. you have to remember that not everyone is going to agree with you on which church is right. instead you should focus on which church you feel comfortable in.

Jack Wellman May 6, 2013 at 9:11 am

Nelson, you said “I am not trying to put down any of your theology so please do the same with mine” but you are trying to make Jesus less than God. And I am not putting down your theology but trying to understand why the Book of Mormon, which is supposed to be another testament of Jesus Christ, has had so many errors over time and throughout its history and if it is inspired then why would God inspired word contain error.

I too agree why there are thousands of churches but this doesn’t make truth any less than true. The vast majority of these churches agree that Jesus is God and has always been God. To be God you must have not had a beginning and have no ending. Since Mormons believe that Jesus is the half brother of Lucifer and thus, a created being, then He is less than God by definition to you. These “thousands of churches” you mention may not agree on every point but we don’t add to the Word of God (by “another testament” of Jesus).

I have answered this previously but you ignored it and so here I go again about how can the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit be three yet one. In John 10:30 Jesus said “I and the Father are one.” Over 50 times Jesus the Son and the Father are mentioned in the same verse. Yet we find Paul’s greeting as grace and peace from both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus identifies himself as the Son of God all throughout the Bible. He is always put on equal status with the Father being able to bestow grace to the believer. The only time he is not equal is by position, never in nature.

John 20:31 …That Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” Jn.16:3 “And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor me.” Here he is distinguishing himself as another from the Father. Jesus separates himself from the Father in person but not in nature.

Jn.10:30: ” I and my father are one” this is not a numerical one, Jesus is not saying he is the father. they are not one person but in nature they are a united one. It actually reads we are one in Greek the first person plural esmen . Examining his claim further “I and my Father are one.” The Jews pick up stones because they understood this as blasphemy in vs. 36 Jesus interprets what he meant by saying because I said, “I am the Son of God.” There is a very good reason for this because…. Contrary to those who claim the Son of God means less than God it actually affirmed his deity.

The Trinity is one God who exists simultaneously in three persons. Each is coequal, copowerful, and coeternal with the other. Each person–Father, Son and Holy Spirit–is not the other. Without either there is no God; all comprise the one God.

Analogy of the Trinity: With time, for example, the past is distinct from the present, which is distinct from the future. Each is simultaneous. Yet, they are not three ‘times,’ but one. That is, they all share the same nature: time

Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,”

1 Cor. 12:4-6, “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.”

2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”

By the way just because you can’t understand how God can be One and yet three distinct persons doesn’t make it untrue. What you believe or don’t understand has no bearing on something being true or not. That’s faulty logic. Do you understand how a car runs exactly? A microwave, computer, or the sun?

Carlee May 15, 2013 at 12:12 pm

How come my last comment has been taken off this comment board?

Jack Wellman May 15, 2013 at 12:15 pm

Your comment is there…I did not take any comment of yours off the board.

Carlee May 16, 2013 at 3:10 pm

I posted a comment last week and Nelson posted one today. They came through in my email but aren’t shown on this website. Do you know where they’ve gone?

Nelson May 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm

Carlee did you get the one I wrote last night in your email? Could you email it back to me so I can try to post it again
Thanks

Carlee May 16, 2013 at 3:38 pm

What is your email address?

Nelson May 16, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Nelson May 18, 2013 at 12:27 am

Nothing personal but I think the definition of the trinity that you are using is a man made definition and not one that could possibly come from a proper interpretation of the BIBLE. I said in my previous posts that there are some 20 instances where they are mentioned as separate beings. Through more study I think it is more like 100 to 200 times where they are referenced as being 3 separate and distinct beings. God the Father, His son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. I base my belief on who God and Jesus are on the Bible. I understand how the bible references a oneness of God the Father and Jesus. Are we to take that oneness literally? In purpose and likeness Yes. In Being or Person No.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

v.21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
v. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

If you search the words “one” or “unity” in the bible it always is saying that we all should be “one”.

-So we, being many, are one body in Christ: Rom. 12:5 .

-they shall be one flesh: Gen. 2:24 . ( Matt. 19:5 ; Mark 10:8 ; 1 Cor. 6:16 ; Eph. 5:31)

-them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: Acts 4:32

-he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit: 1 Cor. 6:17 .

-be of one mind: 2 Cor. 13:11 . ( 1 Pet. 3:8 . )

-neither male nor female … all one in Christ: Gal. 3:28 .

-stand fast in one spirit, with one mind: Philip. 1:27 .

-he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: Heb. 2:11 .

-one fold, and one shepherd: John 10:16 .

-they shall become one in thine hand: Ezek. 37:17 .

-the people is one, and they have all one language: Gen. 11:6 .

-they shall be one flesh: Gen. 2:24

-the people is one, and they have all one language: Gen. 11:6 .

-they shall become one in thine hand: Ezek. 37:17 .

Are we to take all of these scriptures literally as being ONE person? I do not see how you can. Why would God try to make that simple doctrine so hard to understand?

You had stated that…
“The Trinity is one God who exists simultaneously in three persons. Each is coequal, copowerful, and coeternal with the other. Each person–Father, Son and Holy Spirit–is not the other. Without either there is no God; all comprise the one God.”

I believe that they are coequal, copowerful and coeternal. JESUS IS COEQUAL, COPOWERFUL AND COETERNAL WITH THE FATHER!!! but based on the bible you can not get that they are one and the same being.

“exists simultaneously in three persons.”

“Genesis 26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

If we are created in Gods image then our image or person would look the same as Gods.
However God the father is still the father of all. He is our father and Jesus’s father as is mentioned countless times in the Bible. I do not believe it is evil or a bad thing to see it that way. Every one of your responses you state that… “Mormons believe that Jesus is the half brother of Lucifer” Well why wouldn’t he be? Who created Lucifer? Since God the Father is the father of all, he would have created Lucifer along with all of the other wicked and evil spirits. Not that he created them evil, they chose their own course, just as we choose ours.
In the Book of Revelation chapter 12 talks about Satan and the War in Heaven. How the spirits of satan and his followers were cast out of heaven to this earth to tempt us and lead us away from the saviour Jesus Christ who he also would send. God created them both of there spirits, along with everything else.

I love the Lord my God. I am ever in his debt for the sacrifice of his son. Though we may not agree on things Jack, he is our Saviour and the saviour of the world. May we all try to live up to the example that he set so we may find the happiness that is promised.
Thanks
Nelson

phishing4men May 18, 2013 at 8:46 am

Jesus is not a created beng just one of many eronious beliefs you hold. You have been blinded by lies from Lucifer who unlike Jesus is a created being ntil the scales are taken from your spiritual eyes you will remain lost. We will pray that you may see God speed

Nelson May 18, 2013 at 1:11 pm

The Bible does not lie. Where do you find the scriptures to back up your interpretation? Our Heavenly Father is the father of all our spirits and the literal father of Jesus’s body and spirit. That’s what the scriptures say.

Jack Wellman May 18, 2013 at 10:25 pm

Nelson, please give it up. You’re not convincing anyone and you are wasting the readers time and this post is not a debating forum and so please start your own blog to give your own beliefs. There is a Bible Forums website for debating for no one is ever argued into the truth so please give it up and let’s not keep beating a dead horse over the head otherwise we will just delete the comments you make from now on and maybe block you altogether.

Nelson May 19, 2013 at 11:41 am

I am sorry you feel that way Jack. Before i get blocked please let me make my final comment to stand as a witness. It does sadden me every time i see anything written about our church that is false or misleading which I feel this article has been. I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for over 20 years. My membership in the church has helped me develop a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father and saviour Jesus Christ. I know they are real for i have felt their spirit which has influenced me to try to make the right choices and be a better person. If this is not a christian relationship then what is? I know that our church is led by a prophet today. I know the Bible is true. I know the Book of Mormon is true. All one has to do is read it and they will know that it is not a book just written by a man. It is an inspired book that God has brought forth to us in our day to stand as a witness along with the Bible that Jesus is the Christ. The son of a living God. The saviour and redeemer of the world. Read it, pray about it, and you will know it is true. God will not lead you astray.

At the time of Christ, which church was ridiculed and persecuted the most? The Church of Jesus Christ. Satan does not want people to belong to the true church and does all in his power to prevent it and destroy the kingdom of God like he did by killing the apostles after Christ. Did the true church with all of the proper keys and authority continue after the martyrdom of the prophets? If it did, as the Catholics believe then are they not the true church and why are we not members? Could that authority have been passed down to the splinter break offs from the catholic church which all other christian churches stem? If not then the true church would have had to have been restored back to the earth. So I ask what would that church look like today? Probably the same as it did at the time of Christ. They would have Prophets and apostles chosen by god to lead and guide the church to help clarify the truth and unite all under one gospel. They would have missionaries to proclaim this message to all the world. They would have Temples to worship in, just like they did in the Bible. Because they would be the lords true church satan would do all in his power to stop people from finding the truth and would pursicute all those who had.
I am sure your whole life for no fault of your own Jack you have been taught that the Mormon church is evil and to run from it. I pray for you to put away your preconceptions about us. Read the Book of Mormon with an open heart and pray to see if it is true. God will let you know. If it isn’t then i guess big deal, we are just another of the 20,000 churches that say they are true. If it is true then it is the most glorious and wonderful things and we all have the responsibility to tell the world. If it is true and we choose to do nothing or even continue to fight against it then I pray that God will have mercy for the soul of that man who fights against his church and his gospel. Please take this seriously. This may be your last chance. I will pray for you to have an open heart and for The Lord to answer your sincere prayer.
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 19, 2013 at 5:17 pm

I pray for you to also have an open heart Nelson. Thank you my friend..and believe me, that is my prayer as well. Take care sir.

Robert May 20, 2013 at 8:40 am

Hi Nelson,
I wondered why it is so important that you NOT believe that Jesus is God? We believe He is, and we believe that to deny this is a denial of who Jesus really is. Why do Mormons deny Jesus’ deity so strongly?
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Carlee May 19, 2013 at 3:09 pm

Jack,
Nelson is not trying to debate you any more than you are trying to debate him. It appears to me that you want this to be a place where people are allowed to read only that which you want them to read, and to believe only that which you believe. If you feel it appropriate to “enlighten” the world about a religion that you aren’t even part of, it only seems fair that you allow those who are a part of it to have a say in the matter as well. It is extremely discouraging to always be told what we believe by people who don’t have a full knowledge of what we believe, and likewise to be shot down every time we do try to speak up about our beliefs. I would appreciate it if you would not block us anymore. It is simply inappropriate.

Jack Wellman May 19, 2013 at 5:21 pm

Thank you Carlee. I will block or delete anything that lessens the Divinity and Eternality of Jesus Christ, like Jesus is a created being and a half brother of Lucifer who became Satan. To Christians it is blasphemous. Do you see that? Can you understand that is all I want to do? As Nelson told me I also tell you, I pray for you to also have an open heart as Nelson told me. I appreciate prayers and I will also pray for you too Carlee. Thank you and take care.

Nelson May 19, 2013 at 7:58 pm

Jack that statement is used by you to deceive people and to keep them away from the truth. I have used the scriptures to back up our interpretation and to refute everything you have said against us. If you lived in the time of Jesus would your heart have been open to see and recognize that he was who he said he was. The son of God. Or would you have been one of the doubters and sceptics that thought of him as just another man and cast him off for not, being stuck in there old closed minded ways, not willing to change. There are prophets and apostles once again on the earth. God speaks to us once again through them. He is not muzzled as most of christendome believes he is. He speaks, He lives, He loves us all.
Thanks
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 19, 2013 at 8:19 pm

Nelson, I have tried to be nice but then you say, “that statement is used by you to deceive people and to keep them away from the truth.”

Take care and I hope God opens your eyes.

Jack Wellman May 19, 2013 at 8:26 pm

You said that you would pray for me and then you accuse me of willfully trying to deceive people and keep them from the truth.” Such attacks show your true nature Nelson. Have you not read Romans 12 and 1 Cor 13. Alas, I am blessed “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you” Matt 5:11-13. “By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35 So the opposite is true my friend, have you not read?

Nelson May 20, 2013 at 10:16 am

I still want to keep this cordial but the same thing that you are mad at has been said about us. Have you read the Book of Mormon Jack? Have you sincerly prayed and asked God if it is true? I know you believe that God answers prayers so have faith and he will give you an answer. That will solve this debate. There is a reason we are the most pusecuted Christian church in the world.

Jack Wellman May 20, 2013 at 10:29 am

I am not mad. How can you see into my heart to make that judgment. You accused me of making a “statement is used by you to deceive people and to keep them away from the truth.”

Have you read the Muslim’s book the Koran? Do you have to read it all to see that it is wrong? Have you sincerely asked God and prayed to Him to open your eyes and ask God to know whether the book of Mormon is true, and that you will have faith to believe what God says and by the way, no one is ever convinced of the truth by debate. You are the most persecuted in the world? What is your source my friend for saying that?

Nelson May 20, 2013 at 11:05 am

Muslims do not believe in Jesus so what ever they preach is different. If God was to give us additional scripture or once again send us his prophets how would you know if they were true? Would we be willing to accept them or would we reject them right away because of our past preconceptions. Gods power is limitless so we should not limit what he could or would do. You have written articles on mormons and this might be the only forum a person might read to base their entire opinion on the mormon church. Don’t you think you should read the book first and give it a fair shot before you give your opinion on it. That is all I am asking. God will not lead you astray.
Nelson

Jack Wellman May 20, 2013 at 11:11 am

You are wrong sir. Muslims DO believe in Jesus. See, you can not criticize what you do not understand. Don’t you think you should read their book before you give it a fair shot as you said. You want it both ways. I see we are getting nowhere.

Robert May 20, 2013 at 7:03 am

Nelson,
I asked this earlier, but didn’t get a response, so I’d like to try again. Do you believe you will attain godhood? And, if you do, how is this done? I have read Christian apologist’s views on this, but I would actually like to get a Mormon’s view of it. God bless you.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Randy May 23, 2013 at 9:47 pm

Robert,
When I was in the Mormon church we were taught that there are three levels of Heaven. To attain godhood you have to reach the highest level. You can only reach this level if you belong to the Mormon church. You have to go through all the levels of priesthood. Mormon guys start the priesthood road at twelve years old. There are several different levels you work through as you get older. You must go on a two year mission, tithe ten per cent of your income, get married in the temple, get your family sealed in the temple (so you will spend eternity together), participate in such events as baptism for the dead, and other works oriented events. If you are a woman you better hope your your husband gets to the highest level or you won’t. Part of the wedding ceremony in the temple involves the bride getting a secret name that only the husband and wife know. When she dies the husband calls her up to Heaven with that name. I don’t remember what happens if she dies first. Women cannot be gods.

Robert May 24, 2013 at 3:32 pm

Randy,
Thanks for commenting. How long were you involved with the Mormon church? In your experience, why do Mormons react so negatively to the thought of Jesus deity? I simply do not understand why someone would fight so hard against this belief. Thanks again and God bless you, brother.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Randy May 25, 2013 at 2:18 am

I started in the church when I was a very young child. My Mom’s boss was a bishop and introduced her to the church. When my siblings and I were old enough we were baptized. I think we got baptized at nine years old. My Dad wouldn’t join. I was eighteen years old when I started questioning. I had a lot of confusion about the Mormon religion, some new age stuff, and true Christianity. Fortunately Holy Spirit kept guiding me and steered me (and at this point, my wife) to a couple of really good churches. The way the Mormon church pushes their beliefs on you and convinces you of their “truth” and righteousness reminds me of brainwashing. Even as I came to know the truth and understand true Christianity I always had that nagging little doubt in the back of my mind. One night during a Bible study we were reading a particular passage in the Bible and Holy Spirit spoke to me and said this is why you don’t believe the Mormons. I was totally freed from Mormonism that night. I was 33 years old. It took about fifteen years to be freed. This is why it is so hard to pry Mormons away from their beliefs. They are told and convinced that Jesus is a son of God, in the human sense of father and son, and a half brother of Satan and Joseph Smith and you and me. They are so sure of this that they cannot comprehend the triune God and fight against that belief convinced they are right. I have spent a lot of the last twenty years studying other religions and their beliefs so that I can try to help others who are being misled. I understand how it feels to be under the spell of something that could have cost me my salvation and I sympathize with those that are in that position or are considering joining those groups. My reasons for posting on a discussion like this are not to bash anothers beliefs, but hopefully to help people understand and find the truth. I don’t necessarily want someone to just take my word for it, but to really study this deeper. My faith is as strong as it is because of my praying, seeking guidance, listening and studying. If one doesn’t really know the truth, it won’t be embedded in their heart deep enough to overcome the wrong elements. Sorry for getting so “preachy”, but this is really close to my heart and important to me.

Robert May 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm

Thank you Randy,
I think your comments are very helpful, since you have seen both sides of the issue. You have knowledge that many outside the Mormon circle do not have. And I appreciate you sharing that with us. I simply want to share the truth with others. Thanks again, Randy. God bless you, brother and take care.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Nelson May 20, 2013 at 9:59 am

We do not deny Jesus as deity. We believe that Jesus is part of the Godhead and in being so is coequal, copowerful, coeternal with the Father. The Bible says in “John17;11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” We just do not believe that when the scriptures say “one” it is not one being but one in purpose or in unity. In the same verse we are commanded to be one as well. Not one person but one in unity. God and Jesus have all of the same attributes and qualities but different personages. Jesus is the literal son of God and in being so is a god himself. There are many Christian churches that interperet it this way. We are not the only one. It is not a thing of evil just a different interpretation. I hope you all can see that. Robert I had written a lengthy response to your question however it somehow got deleted. I have been busy seeding so have not had time to write something up again. I will try this week again.
Thanks
Nelson

Nelson May 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm

John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
Who were the other people that Jesus visited? Where is an account of his visitations? The Book of Mormon gives an account of when Jesus himself visited the people hear on the American continent after his resurrection. I believe the “other sheep” written about in the Bible included the people from the Book of Mormon. Just read the book Jack and pray about it. Trust in the lord he will not lead you astray.
James 1:5 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. ”
Ask in faith and God will give us the answers.

Robert May 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm

Nelson,
Jesus was speaking to the Jews (Matthew 15:24), the ‘other sheep’ are simply non-Jewish believers. The Jews believed that they had a monopoly on God’s love. Jesus was telling them that they did not. To take this to mean anything else is to indulge in an interpretation that is unwarranted.
Yours in Christ,
Robert

Randy May 20, 2013 at 11:58 pm

I know I posted way back on this. I left the Mormon church as a young adult after growing up in the church. The older I got, the more I learned. In Heaven I would have one or more wives and we would create spirit babies who would take their turn on Earth. Of course, I would be a god running my own planet. This really degrades the deity of God. I would have to be married in the Temple, which my Dad would not be able to attend as a non-Mormon because of the secret rituals. Why would we need to have secrets? Isn’t God open to everyone? The Israelite tribes had been lost, then found as Native Americans in the United States. I’m sure that was a surprise to Jewish descendants. It was to me. The Bible we were studying was the same as it always had been.The Book of Mormon, which was also supposed to be the word of God, had been changed. A lot. And the prophet? I thought we all have a line to God. Why would God only talk to the prophet? I keep seeing people ask questions about the church’s beliefs, which keep getting fudged along. These are just a few of the questionable beliefs taught to me by Sunday school teachers, a seminary teacher, MIA teachers, and primary teachers. For those of you that don’t know, seminary, MIA and primary were classes we took as children and youths. The Mormons lean heavily on the “burning in your bosom”, or following your heart when reading their books. The Bible says to test the spirits. Not once have I ever heard a Mormon say this. Maybe if Joseph Smith would have done this when presented with the golden plates we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

phishing4men May 21, 2013 at 8:29 am

Hmmm what about it Nelson this is from one who was on the inside and was delivered by the grace of God. Hard to refute thosw who have come to the light

SD Foxford June 29, 2013 at 11:51 pm

I believe that Jesus Christ, the same being that we read about in the New Testament, is truly the Son of God. That Jesus Christ is the Savior and Redeemer of the the world. That it is only through his redeeming blood that I have any chance to be forgiven of my sins and live with God again. I love him, I strive to live my life with the commandments that he has given. I know that he was resurrected on the third day. I know that he lives. I know that he loves us. I know that there is a God, and Jesus Christ is his son. And I am a Mormon.

People may say what they feel, but I know the conviction and love I have in my heart for my Savior Jesus Christ. Amen

Kacey Wood August 8, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Very informative article Mr. Wellman. I really appreciated the information. However, I did find the errors (typo/grammar) to be a bit distracting. And I am only point that out because the hard work you put into your writing should in no way be affected by a few errors. But it is involuntary for persons who place a high value on language or who may be teachers or editors themselves. Maybe you can have someone else proof for you as it is sometimes difficult to see your own errors when you have spent so much time on a piece. Again, thanks for the hard work that really helped me see beyond the deceptive use of ‘Jesus as Saviour’ which is really quite different to what Chritians (believers of Christ as GOD and Saviour) actually believe.

Randy August 8, 2013 at 5:30 pm

Kacey Wood, “Chritians”? If you’re going to criticize others errors, you should watch your own. I’ve followed this article and it’s comments since it started. People have been responding passionately and knowledgably, and have had typos, but who cares? This is about Mormon beliefs, not language and composition.

phishing4men August 9, 2013 at 9:26 am

“And I am only point that out because”…..I am sure Kacey had very good intentions and offered the suggestions to Bro. Jack with the best of motives, and I have done the same thing Kacey did in the past and was myself corrected by another who caught my own typos/grammatical errors. I remember how humbling that was. At first I was a little angry at how embarrassing it was, but as time wore on God was able to show me how much of the time I was focusing on the letter rather than the Spirit of scripture. God be praised. I would not doubt that this comment has some misspelling or grammatical errors, but even with that in mind, you know what I am saying. As it is hard to see our own spelling and grammatical errors as it is also difficult for us to see our blind-spots(the log in our own eye, yet readily see the speck/splinter in others) and that is one reason God has graciously called us to be a part of the body of Christ as God uses us in each others lives in the sanctification process(accountability). “Every wash machine needs an agitator to really get the clothes clean” Is it not amazing how much God loves us and is so patient with each of us?
by grace alone

Jack Wellman August 9, 2013 at 8:23 pm

I sure love you my brother and miss you. I did correct the tiepos…opps, there I go again, typos and I feel better. I am not above correction and the day that I am, pray for me! LOL

Kacey Wood September 8, 2013 at 1:24 pm

With all due respect to Randy, the ‘phisher’ and any others commenting on my typos: I really don’t care what you have to say. My comment was directed to Mr. Wellman not the general public. I did not have his personal email so I wrote it here (please don’t bother writing to tell me it is in fact on this site 🙂 ) When I write for the general public, as I suggested to him, I get help to edit and proofread, because as previously stated it is hard to see your errors sometimes when you have put so much time and work into a piece. Which a comment does not qualify as! My comment commended for his work and offered what my English teacher like to call constructive criticism. Personally it means nothing to me, no skin off my nose! Buh bye. And remember Jesus is your Saviour, a Friend who will NEVER desert you and the ONLY way to eternal life. God bless you.

Jack Wellman August 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm

I found a couple of mistakes and corrected them and I appreciate your catching them. There were grievous mistakes but I do want these done well. I tell the church during sermons where I am the under-shepherd that “Today, part of my sermon will be perfect! The part where I read out of the Bible.” LOL

I loved Randy’s comment that you had a spelling mistake pointing out mine. Isn’t there irony in this. Thanks friend and thank you too Randy.

Kacey Wood September 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm

Of course you loved Randy’s comment: you are a human ring with an ego that got pricked 🙂 Thanks for all your hard work – keep it up!

Kacey Wood September 8, 2013 at 1:31 pm

Human being! lol I guess smartphones are not so smart

Jack Wellman September 8, 2013 at 9:40 pm

Thank you Kacey. Let me say this about my articles and my sermons….I say that part of them are perfect! The part where I read out of or quote the Bible. My part? Not so much! LOL

Elder Jones September 7, 2013 at 7:26 pm

I am a Missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Everyday I wake up, study the word of God then go out and proclaim that message to the people I meet. There is no greater feeling in the world than that of seeing someone accept Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior and be baptized in his holy name. He truly is the way the truth and the light. I know he lives and loves us. Let us not quarrel one with another but work together in this great work.
God Bless
Elder Jones

Jack Wellman September 7, 2013 at 9:35 pm

Thank you sir for your comment. I am glad you are studying the Word of God and sharing the gospel. We are not arguing or quarreling by the way. What troubles me is that the LDS are worshipping a different Jesus than that which is described in the Bible. For one thing there are great discrepancies between the Book of Bible and the Book of Mormon.

The Bible says the Church began in 33 AD Mt 16:18 Acts 2

Book of Mormon says the church began in 147BC, Mosiah 18:17

The Bible says that the “disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” 40AD, Acts 11:26

The Book of Mormon says in Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

Bible: Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18

Book of Mormon: Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6

Bible: “Jesus was born in Bethlehem” Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Mormon: “He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10

Bible: 3 hours of darkness at crucifixion Lk 23:44

Book of Mormon: 3 Days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27

Bible: God is spirit without flesh &bones Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39

Book of Mormon: God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

Jedediah M. Grant, Second Counselor to Brigham Young the Second Prophet of the LDS Church:

“Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, the ‘grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was because He had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed Him.’ After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master. . . The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, casing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy,. . .a belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus, and his followers. We might almost think they were ‘Mormons’ ” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 1. ppl 345-346)

The Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt: “…it will be seen that the GREAT MESSIAH who was the founder of the Christian religion, WAS A POLYGAMIST, . . .the MESSIAH chose. . .by marrying honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that HE approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation, as well as under the dispensation in which His polygamist ancestors lived. . . .We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives. . .” (The Seer, page 172)

The unmistakable conclusion is that the LDS god was a mortal man who was married and his marriage qualified him for being exalted to godhood. The god of the Mormons is a man-god who once was a man like any other man, who by his good works was exalted to godhood. That is what the Mormons are working for….not salvation…but godhood. (See Genesis 3:5, Godhood is what Satan promised Eve if she disobeyed God and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). The Jesus, the Mormons proclaim to love so dearly, is absolutely not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, but according to their teaching the sexual offspring of their god and one of his many wives in heaven. In fact Jesus, Satan and all men are the actual offspring of their god of flesh and bone.

Finally the Book of Mormon has stolen verses from the Bible and claimed them for itself. I am not quarreling, I am trying to expose what the LDS believes and what is taught in the Bible. Thank you sir.

Elder Jones September 8, 2013 at 12:41 pm

Mr Wellman
You are not exposing anything, just misrepresenting our beliefs. You have said in the past that speaking of Christ that
“He runs the church. He can use different denominations”
So you say that it does not matter what Christian church you go but then you and many others make judgment on us and start kicking churches out of the umbrella of Christianity.

Where in the bible does it give your definition of who is a Christian and who is not that you use to say a Mormon is not a Christian? There isn’t one. The definition that is used to justify the mass condemning of the mormon Church does not come from the Bible, but from men. If you say that you believe and accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior I will take you for your word and believe you to be a Christian. I have accepted Jesus as my personal lord and savior. Like I said before I do not wish to debate just work together to fight against the real enemy. I know satan will never win but his influence is growing throughout the world and because of that he is stealing away the souls of many. We need to do all we can to prevent it.
Thank you
Elder Jones

Kacey Wood September 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm

Mr Jones, I am confused! Are you saying that Mr. Wellman’s quotation comparisons are incorrect. I know the biblical ones are accurate. Are the ones from your book, as he quoted, incorrect? Tell me straight out please: do Mormons believe Jesus Christ is GOD? All Mormons or just some factions? Do they believe the Bible is more important than your other book (sorry I can’t remember the exact name right now), is Jesus Christ more important than Joseph Smith? Please help me get these answers once and for all. I know at one time people of colour were not ‘allowed’ to be Mormon and afterwards that was changed. Maybe the same has happened with the topics Mr. Wellman raises? Thanks for any clarification you can offer.

Elder Jones September 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Kacey in answer to your questions…
We believe Joseph Smith was a Prophet and that our church today is led by prophets and apostles just like the Church of Jesus Christ of old. Jesus Christ is the savior and redeemer of the world. No man can ever replace that and I’m not sure why people say that we worship Joseph Smith. He was a prophet not God or the Savior.
We believe in the Godhead who’s definition is basically the same as the Trinity. That they are three distinct but separate beings.
We also believe that the Book of Mormon was written by Prophets that lived on this American continent around the same time as the prophets in the old and new testaments. If they were truly prophets called by God and God reveled his word to them are their words not scripture. Don’t believe me, read it for yourself and you will see that it does not contradict the Bible.
Your Friend In Christ
Elder Jones

Jack Wellman September 8, 2013 at 9:37 pm

Thank you again sir for your response. If a prophet is wrong, were they not stoned? I am not suggesting that Mr. Smith should be stoned, for he is not alive today but if he called himself a prophet and so do LDS members, then why is he so wrong about these many inconsistencies?

The Bible says the Church began in 33 AD Mt 16:18 Acts 2

Book of Mormon says the church began in 147BC, Mosiah 18:17

The Bible says that the “disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” 40AD, Acts 11:26

The Book of Mormon says in Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

Bible: Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18

Book of Mormon: Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6

Bible: “Jesus was born in Bethlehem” Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Mormon: “He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10

Bible: 3 hours of darkness at crucifixion Lk 23:44

Book of Mormon: 3 Days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27

Bible: God is spirit without flesh &bones Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39

Book of Mormon: God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

Either the Book of Mormon is wrong or the Bible is. I choose to believe the Bible. What do you say sir?

Elder Jones September 9, 2013 at 2:01 am

Mr Wellman you are absolutely right. If the Book of Mormon is proven to be a fraud then Joseph Smith and for that matter the whole Mormon church would have to be a fraud as well. However if it is what we believe it to be, an ancient record of Gods dealings with the people that existed on this the American continent. That was translated by Joseph Smith through the power of God. That Joseph Smith was a Prophet and that he restored the true Church back on the earth because that is what he said he did. I can see why you and many other church leaders would take exception to our claims because if we are right then all others are wrong.

First of all I am just an imperfect man. No person ever convinced me that the Book of Mormon is true. I read it, compared it to the Bible, prayed about it and the Holy Spirit has testified to me over and over again that what I was reading was true and inspired by God. The exact same spiritual witness I receive whenever I read the Bible. That is the only way one can know if the book is true.
I hesitate to even resolve your claims about the Book of Mormon. To me they are very basic and if you actually read into them a little more they would answer themselves. So I will be brief.
1: Alma; a prophet, led a group of people out of a wicked city into the wilderness and the believers were called the church of Christ. Not sure how that contradicts anything in the Bible???
2: the Book of Mormon is a translation from reformed Egyptian. Most words do not have an exact word translation into a different language. You either use a phrase to explain it or a different word that best describes it . So the word Christian was the best word to use.
3: your quote does not come from the Book of Mormon it comes from the doctrine and covenants of the church. It is a revelation that was given to Oliver Cowdery (a modern day apostle) that Joseph Smith was the lords chosen witness on the earth. Like Moses. And that The Lord would continue to lead his people through him. Like he did in the past. We do not worship Joseph Smith. We believe him to be a prophet like the prophets of old who the people never worshiped but they listened to them because they spoke the words that god had revealed to them.
4: it says “At Jerusalem the land of our forefathers. ” (not in) I believe Bethlehem lies adjacent to Jerusalem and would be considered “at the land of Jerusalem”
5: they were on a different continent completely. It was prophesied that there would be 3 days of light when Christ was born and 3 days of dark when he was crucified and that’s what happened here on this continent as it was written.
6: (also not from the book of mormon) Don’t you believe in the Trinity? Jesus is part of the trinity and he has a body of flesh and blood. The Bible also says that we are created in gods image, so i would assume that we look the same as God.

The Book of Mormon has over 500 pages. You would think with a book that size their would be many contradictions with the Bible but their isn’t. Since Joseph Smith was not a historian or well educated it should also contain many historical errors as well but it doesn’t. You would also think that if Joseph Smith just wrote it, he would have put in it teachings that would support his differing interpretations of the Bible but it does not contain that either.
People have been tying to prove that the Book of Mormon is not true ever since it was translated. It is just mans attempt to repudiate one of Gods work. Much like how man tries to prove that God does or does not exist. I know that the book of mormon is a true and inspired book!!! Anyone who wants to know if it is true needs to read it, ponder and compare it and pray with faith to our Heavenly Father if it is true and he will give you an answer.
Sorry for my long reply but I did want to briefly get to all of your points.
Thanks
Elder Jones

Robert September 9, 2013 at 8:06 am

Elder Jones,
We have an incredible opportunity here to share with each other and understand each other’s philosophy/theology/etc. a bit better. May we learn in a spirit of love as God would have us.

It is my understanding (and I believe you even alluded to it) that the Mormon church began as a corrective to the corrupt Christian church. According to Mormonism, Christianity had strayed so far off course from what God had intended that Joseph Smith was given new revelation to get it back on track. My question is, and I’ve never gotten a straight answer from any Mormon, what are these correctives? What does Mormonism teach that is different from mainstream Christianity? It has to be something that God deems important enough to enter into history and contact Joseph Smith, as Mormons believe, to straighten out.

I appreciate your insight, and clarification, into this matter. This seems to be the dividing line which continues to separated Mormons and mainstream Christians. I thank you, Sir.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

Jack Wellman September 9, 2013 at 12:39 pm

Again, thank you sir. Your answer to .5 was “they were on a different continent completely. It was prophesied that there would be 3 days of light when Christ was born and 3 days of dark when he was crucified and that’s what happened here on this continent as it was written.”

I have found zero historical evidences for this occurrence among any of the Western Hemisphere nations, which included North America. You said that it was prophesied. By whom? Not by the Bible. How can there be 3 hours of darkness in the East and 3 days of darkness in the west?

The fact is that there is no archeological evidence of actual wheeled vehicle usage in the 2,000 BC to 400 AD time frame in Ancient America so what about the Chariots that were said to be in use on the American continent during these times….no Indian folklore, no archeological or paleontological evidence has ever been found {unlike what we see in the Bible which has nearly 34,000 digs at over 7,000 sites and growing) (Alma 18:9)?

The law of non-contradiction when applied to Jesus. He is either God and has always existed or He was a created being as the Mormon’s believe. Both can not be true. Since you also believe that even God the Father was composed of flesh and blood and was created, who was the original God or creator? Would there not have to be at some point in time where there was a God that was not created? If you infinitely regress, wouldn’t there have to be a first cause or first creator? Who is he? What is he?

Again, what about these:

Bible: “Jesus was born in Bethlehem” Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Mormon: “He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10

Which is right? Both can not be correct. One is in error and I don’t believe it would be the Bible.

Also, If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin?

Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264.)

If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God?

If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? i.e. 3.If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions? The Bible has remained the same.

According to Mormon Article of Faith #8: “We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.” Why do you only add the phrase, “as far as it is translated correctly” to describe the Bible and not after the book of Mormon when in fact there are far more translating errors in the Book of Mormon than the Bible?

Being a degreed historian, let me ask you then why does the Book of Mormon mention Bellows (1 Nephi 17:11), Brass (2 Nephi 5:15), Breast Plates & Copper (Mosiah 8:10), Iron (Jarom 1:8), Gold and Silver currency (Alma 11), Silver (Jarom 1:8), and Steel Swords (Ether 7:9)? No evidence indicates that these items existed during Book of Mormon times. Tom Ferguson: “Metallurgy does not appear in the region until about the 9th century A.D.”

I could go on and on but let me apologize for having such an enormous set of paradoxes and questions that make no sense to me.

Thank you sir.

Randy September 9, 2013 at 4:14 pm

Elder Jones is using a common tactic that Mormon teachers use these days. Their statements and answers border on mainstream Christianity and Biblical beliefs, such as his belief on the Trinity is basically the same. It’s not. I know the point has been gone over many times, but Jesus and the Father in the Bible is not the same Jesus and Father the Mormons believe in. Also all Mormons tend to ignore 1John 4:1 which tells us to test the spirits. Joseph Smith blindly followed an angel. Mormons are told the way to know if something is right is to feel a “burning in your bosom”. I do believe Mormons have spiritual experiences. Unfortunately, as anyone who has ever read the Bible knows, not every spiritual experience comes from God. Satan is a great deceiver, and the things he does tend to get glossed over by Mormon teaching.

Also, as Jack Wellman has noted, the Book of Mormon has been re-written many times. If it was the true word of God it would have been correct the first time and held true. Unfortunately the Mormon God is not infallible, so he keeps changing things. Not surprising, considering he was human like us at one time. Whenever archaeologists discover Biblical text that is centuries old it matches Biblical text of today. That is because the Bible is God’s word, which holds true to this day.

A good book to read, if you want to see what a journey into Mormonism and then back out of Mormonism is like, is “Out of Mormonism” by Judy Robertson. This book describes her family’s journey through the LDS church and how and why they ultimately left it. It also describes the ministry they have helping people cope with leaving Mormonism. I recently read the book and it brought back feelings and memories from when I left the church (except I started in the church as a child and Judy and her husband were adults).





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