Are Mormons Christian? What Do They Believe About Jesus?

by Jack Wellman · Print Print · Email Email

What do Mormons believe about Jesus?  Are they Christian?  Are there differences between Mormonism and Christianity?  Is the Jesus in the Bible the same Jesus that the Mormon’s worship and teach about?

What Do Mormons Believe About Jesus?

Mormonism, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is a religion for sure but there are a lot of false religions in the world.  Mormons believe in Jesus but what exactly do they believe about Him and His origins?  They believe that Jesus is the brother of Satan and are these two are sons of God and are spirit brothers.  They believe that Jesus was created and they believe that like all humans, they were spirit before being born into the flesh.  Both Jesus and Satan were given free will to choose to be evil or good and that the earthly life was a testing ground to see if they would qualify to be God or not.  It is like a probation period and if they pass, they become gods.  They acquire divinity by the works that they do while on earth.

At death, all one can hope for is that they did enough good works to make it to become a god and so Jesus is thought to have done enough good works and lived a perfect enough of a life to become a god.  Obviously, Satan failed this test, or at least so they teach.  Mormons teach that spiritual good works are the only way to overcome spiritual death and this is accomplished by keeping the commandments, receiving a proper baptism only through a Mormon priest, having a strong enough faith, and in genuine repentance.  They must also have the Mormon Temple obligations fulfilled properly.  Apparently Jesus must have passed this test according to the Mormons and His baptism must have, I suppose, came through a priestly-sort of John the Baptist, who was not a Mormon that I am aware of.

After the birth of Jesus and Satan, God offered a plan of salvation for human beings and Satan offered his own plan but it was rejected.  God accepted Jesus’ idea as being a Savior and so Jesus’ spirit was sent to Mary who, through a virgin birth, gave birth to Jesus. The Mormons believe that if anyone can live a righteous life like Jesus did, then they will receive eternal life and become a god.  They believe that Jesus was a spirit-brother of Lucifer and therefore was a creation of God and not God from all eternity past (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

Are The Mormons ChristiansWhat Do Mormons Believe About God?

Mormons believe that God is a Supreme Being but they believe that God acquired this status through good works.  God became God gradually by living a righteous and perfect life and that God has a body of flesh and bones, even though the Bible says that God is Spirit (John 4:24).  If a human attains perfection in this life they too can become a god after they die and then this person can produce other “spirit children” to keep on reproducing the potential of other gods.  This newly born god-person can then populate other worlds like earth and so become a god of that planet.  They teach that God in heaven was once a man like those on the earth today but He is seen as an “exalted man” and not God from all eternity (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).  The Father and the Son are seen to be men in perfect stature and form today with flesh and bones (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38). God is said to have been a man who at one time lived on another planet (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 Page 4, 1844. Joseph Smith).  The problem is doesn’t there have to be an original god somewhere that created such spirit beings?  It is the problem of infinite regression because there had to be a Creator for their to be any spirit beings or god-persons.  You must keep going back and back and somewhere, didn’t there have to be an original God Creator?  They miss the logic of this “cause and effect” problem.

The Book of Mormon

Is the Book of Mormon is sacred text to them and is held to be the “most correct” writings or book of Scripture.  This would make it supersede the authority of the Bible because it says that men can get closer to God in this book than any other book (Smith, B. H. Roberts, ed. History of the Church, 4, p. 461).  The Book of Mormon, the Doctrines, and the Pearl of Great Price are seen as divinely inspired but they see the Bible as being constructed in a multi-step process.  They state that they Book of Mormon was not assembled like the Bible and therefore is a better testament.

Is There Archeological Support of Mormon Teachings?

There is actually no archeological proof of the Mormon’s story about the descendants of the Israelites moving to North America from around 2200 B.C. to A.D. 420.  They believe this group spoke Hebrew and were misidentified as Native American Indians.  There records were said to be kept in a “reformed Egypt” for which that nation has absolutely no evidence of.  Both Mormon and non-Mormon archeologists have been unable to unearth evidence of these Jewish tribes in America.   Both historians and archeologists believe the claims to be false since their historical accounts have no such artifacts which is surprising since the Nephites and Lamanites are said to have existed for several hundred years.

The trusted National Geographic Society sent a letter in 1998 to the Institute for Religious Research which stated, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon” (National Geographic Society Statement on the Book of Mormon, Aug. 12th, 1998).   The Book of Mormon purports to have had horses on the continent from around 2500 BC, that there were elephants native to the continent, cattle and cows, sheep, goats, barley, swine, wheat, and much more.  The major problem is that there is no amount of evidence to support these claims.  Further, they stated that they had used concrete, metal swords, and other utensils not found in the B.C. era in North America.  Regardless of all that they claim, there is not one shred of physical evidence to support it.

Another Gospel

The test that is given to see if a gospel message was the one that was once delivered is what others are teaching.  These teachings hinge on the deity, divinity, and eternality of Jesus Christ.  That is, that He has always existed and was not created (John 1).  Every religion in the world, including Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses are based upon works.  If you do enough good works you might make it to heaven, but just like Buddhism, Islam, and the other world religions, one can never be sure enough about having done sufficient good works to make it to heaven or for other religions a reincarnation or a state of Nirvana.  For the Christian, it is a relief that works is not required to be saved because God sees our works as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

The Book of Mormon is said to be new revelation or Scripture from God but the Bible itself claims that a curse is to be pronounced upon anyone who adds to or takes away the words of God, the Bible, in both the Old Testament and in the New.  Revelation 22:18-19 states, I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll:  If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.”  Deuteronomy 4:2 reads, Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you. These are serious warnings from God.  We have today all of the revelation that we need from God. This is why modern day prophets are dangerous and cultic.  They are trying to speak for God and they are their own source, which makes them extra-biblical…heretical, and false.

Paul warned the churches in the New Testament that there would be false gospels brought in by false shepherds in writing to the Galatians (1:8), But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” Where it says, “let him be accursed” the literal translation is “let him be eternally condemned!”  That is about as serious of a warning that Paul ever gave.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Christian.  They are a cult and believe that they are the only ones who have the truth and that all other religions are pagan.  This is not my personal opinion but as compared to the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ.  This religion, like all other religions in the world, base their salvation upon works when the Bible clearly says that it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8). If salvation were by works, there would be none that would make it because our works, at best, are just a bunch of filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).  I thank God that this is the only works we need to do and Jesus told us in John 6:29, This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

We are not trying to judge the Mormon’s ourselves.  The Word of God is what we stand on.  We must witness to them and do so in love and not judgmentally or in condemnation.  But we must witness to them nonetheless.  A great way is to use the Law of God and point them to Jesus as the only One Who has ever kept the Law perfectly.  His perfect life is imputed to us as righteousness and this is how we are made acceptable to God the Father.  No works could ever do this. Romans 5:9-10 says is perfectly, we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

We should love them enough to witness to them, share the gospel with them, tell them that their own rituals or works can never save them, that they still have the wrath of God abiding on them, to repent, and turn to the One Who has made satisfaction with the Father…and that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified for us…and for them or anyone if they would trust in Him.

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Elder Jones September 10, 2013 at 12:29 pm

Mr Wellman lets try to stay out of the getters with all of the here say and myths. The internet is full of hateful and degrading speech about all religions. I find it hard to prove any point by bashing on someone else. Lets stick to the what and why we believe instead of the name calling. Thanks

Robbert thanks for your civility on this topic. I am sure we may not agree on all things but I would be happy to share some of what i feel are great misunderstandings about our Church.
I think it is safe to say that pretty much all churches could be considered corrective of reformative churches. What was the purpose of the great reformers? They saw what they felt were great falsehoods in their original church, so they reformed things back to how they felt things should be. Their intentions were pure. Some may have succeeded in their effort in restoring truths but how is one to really know if they got it right. They can not all be correct in their differing views. The Bible does not disagree with its self but our interpretation of it sure does. I am of the opinion that their can only be (Eph 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,)
So that brings me to my first point in what makes mormons so different. We believe that christ leads our church through his living prophets and apostles.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Do any of the prophets or apostles ever contradict the teaching of another? Why was that? Because God would reveal his truth to them and they in turn would reveal that message to the world. Somewhere along the line, when the apostles died off that line of revelation stopped happening and as a result confusion and falsehoods crept into the common beliefs of Christianity. The only way that could be corrected is Christ would come back and tell us or he would once again reveal the correct truth to his servants the Prophets. Maybe God has just left us alone with the help of his spirit to muddle around in our search for truth. However i strongly believe, and I can show you evidences from the Bible that it was prophesied that in preparation of the lords second coming, all things would be restored. So has that started to happen or if not when will it?

Like i said before. We may not agree on all of our interpretations. No one does. But i can tell you from my experience that all of our doctrines, help bring me closer to Jesus Christ. I know that he is my lord and saviour. That through him and only him can all mankind be saved.

I have one question for you… There are lots of topics that have been written asking the question. Are Mormons, Amish, Scientologists, catholics, etc Christians? So how should we answer that? I don’t really care what the scholars say on the matter. So my question is. What does the Bible say on what makes one a Christian?
Thanks
Elder Jones

Jack Wellman September 10, 2013 at 12:46 pm

What is a Christian. Some would simply say, “to believe in Jesus” makes you a Christian. But what does it mean “to believe?” And who, really, is “Jesus Christ?” According to the Bible, Jesus is the promised Messiah foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. His Hebrew name is “Yeshua”, which means “Salvation”. He is the only begotten Son of God, God come in the flesh, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, who suffered, and was crucified for the sins of the world. He died and was buried, and on the third day, He rose again from the dead having the keys of hell and death. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will soon return to judge both the living and the dead.

Yes, I agree we should stay away from myths and that is why I inquired about the Mormon’s mythological teachings about those things mentioned in this teachings about North America about which there is no archeological or historical evidence Being a degreed historian, let me ask you then why does the Book of Mormon mention Bellows (1 Nephi 17:11), Brass (2 Nephi 5:15), Breast Plates & Copper (Mosiah 8:10), Iron (Jarom 1:8), Gold and Silver currency (Alma 11), Silver (Jarom 1:8), and Steel Swords (Ether 7:9)? No evidence indicates that these items existed during Book of Mormon times. Tom Ferguson: “Metallurgy does not appear in the region until about the 9th century A.D.” I cannot stay away from the subject of myths because these things purported by the Mormons have no historical, paleontological, anthropological or archeological evidence. If you want to stay away from myths, you will have to throw out an enormous amount of Mormon beliefs and teachings.

Again I ask. Which is true?

Bible: “Jesus was born in Bethlehem” Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Mormon: “He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10

Also I ask and you didn’t answer “If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? ” If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? i.e. 3.If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions? The Bible has remained the same.

Robert September 11, 2013 at 8:19 am

Hi Elder Jones,
Thank you for responding. I see no reason to be uncivil in our discussions, even if we disagree, which I’m sure we will at several points.

You wrote in your comment: “So that brings me to my first point in what makes mormons so different. We believe that christ leads our church through his living prophets and apostles. Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
But, the Bible also says this, “Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs” (Hebrews 1:1-4 ESV). The writer of Hebrews says that the time of the prophets was “long ago” not ‘now’ or ‘in the future’. The Bible indicates that the offices (and necessity) of apostles and prophets was for a certain, limited, period in the past.

The Bible, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, provides us with all the information we need to live the Christian life, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (II Timothy 3:16 ESV). Most, if not all, religions outside of Christianity rely on writings other than the Bible. This is where they go astray. The Bible is complete and fully capable of informing us of all we need to know concerning living for God. It is when we veer away from the Bible that we run into trouble by forming our own belief system which may, or may not, have any relation to reality. When we follow a man, or men, we set ourselves up to be misled.

You mention many confusions and falsehoods that have crept into the church. What are some of them? Is this the area in which Mormons and Christians disagree?

In answer to your question, What makes someone a Christian, I would say that one must make Jesus the Lord of his or her life. However, we are not at liberty to construct a Jesus of our own imagination to whom we worship. As an example, my wife is a blonde haired, blue eyed woman. If I were to say, “I love my wife” but then describe her as a black haired, green eyed, girl, it wouldn’t be my wife that I was talking about, it would have to be someone else. This is what disturbs me most about Mormonism; it changes the nature of God [Mormonism: says that He is an exalted man] and Jesus [Mormonism says that He is not God, but a created being, spirit brother to Lucifer] into something other than a biblical representation…and then encourages the worship of that image.

Anyway, I hope you still consider me to be civil. I think I am. Look forward to your reply, Elder Jones. God bless you.

Yours in Christ,
Robert

phishing4men September 16, 2013 at 10:38 pm

Your not being bashed, rather simply being asked to explain a few things which you so far have avoided doing. For instance, where can we find in the Holy Bible that Jesus is created and a half brother of Lucifer? Where does it tell us we can become gods? How do you explain your beliefs about marriage in heaven when we are clearly told there will be no marrying in heaven? These questions and many others have been asked before but have not received a response from you.
I quote you as saying “Like i said before. We may not agree on all of our interpretations. No one does. But i can tell you from my experience that all of our doctrines, help bring me closer to Jesus Christ. I know that he is my lord and saviour”
I hope it was an oversight that you did not capitalize Lord and Savior because it would be very disrespectful to slight the creator of the universe and the one who went to the cross for our sin to blaspheme his name this way. If I were as touchy as you I would never get over hurt feelings seeing as as a Christian I am regularly bashed, mocked and ridiculed, but was forewarned this would happen when I was called to follow Jesus. Kinda need to get over yourself “Elder”

Randy Drake September 10, 2013 at 4:15 pm

Elder Jones,
You keep responding by basically accusing us of making false statements, perpetuating myths and bashing Mormonism, yet you have not addressed the questions that you are asked to clarify. Everything I have written about the LDS church are things I was taught while being a member or from other members of the church. Everything Mr. Wellman has written about are teachings and writings that do not agree with the Bible or secular concerns, such as history and archaeology. The basic response that is given by you or your church is to read Mormon teachings and pray and meditate and respond to the spiritual “burning in the bosom” one gets to verify these teachings. In response the Bible says to test the spirits. The first place to go for that testing is God’s word, which is the Bible, and the Bible does not line up with Mormonism. Your church responds with the Book of Mormon being God’s word, yet this book contradicts teachings of the Bible. Then your church says the Book of Mormon is the more updated version. The problem with this are the statements in the Bible proclaiming it to be God’s final word. The Bible has withstood the tests of time and accuracy. When archaeologists discover scripture written many centuries ago it matches the scripture we read today. The Book of Mormon fails these tests. In its relatively short life it has been changed many times and still doesn’t align with the Bible or science.

You say you are Christian. Jesus said many will say they are followers but He will not know them. You ask what the Bible says about being a Christian. A Christian is someone who follows Jesus and develops a relationship with Him, who relies on Him for their salvation. You say you do this. The problem here is the person you call Jesus is the son of someone you refer to as God, or the Father, who has many wives in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom and creates spirit babies to reside on Earth, and who was human at one time. Since Jesus was one of these spirit babies, as was you, me, everyone that is reading this, everyone else, and Lucifer. There are a few issues with this when compared to the Bible. First, God is eternal and has never been human. The Bible doesn’t indicate otherwise. Second, if our origins and Jesus’ are the same, why would he be anyone special enough or authoratative enough to cover our sins and speak for us at judgment? Jesus is part of the Triune God, which is one God presented in three persons. Not two or three seperate people. Next, Lucifer (or Satan) was not a spirit brother of us. Lucifer is an angel. Angels and people are two distinct and seperate entities, which is definitely described in the Bible. Just because you say you follow Jesus doesn’t mean anything if you don’t know who Jesus is.

No one is bashing you or your church. You have been asked to explain these concerns, but continue to evade them. People want real answers. A person’s salvation and eternal life with God is a serious thing. Too many people don’t understand how serious or the direction they need to go. They just want answers and understanding, and you are not providing either.

Jeff C September 29, 2013 at 10:53 am

Just reading some of the past comments I can see that there are some contentions running about what people perceive us Mormons to be. I echo what has been said in the past regarding what the Bible actually says about the topic being discussed. I am not interested in mans interpretation on the subject because I strongly feel that mans assessment on mormonism shows great bias in not wanting to include us for what ever reason into Christianity. What makes one a Christian? I only wish to add one thing from the Bible.

Matt 7:15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

“By their fruits ye shall know them”
So what are the fruits of being a Mormon. One may say that they are a Christian but do their actions depict one who loves the Lord Jesus Christ and are willing to follow his word and commandments?
There are good people in all religions. I only wish to highlight some of the things we do that does make us different. We do hold ourselves up to a higher standard and we are often mocked and ridiculed because of it.
-First and foremost we believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour. Every sunday we partake of his sacrament in remembrance of His sacrifice for us.
-We believe that our bodies are temples, created in the image of God. In believing this we abstain from alcohol, tobacco, drugs etc. hoping to keep our bodies and minds clean and pure. Being open and in tune to the spirit.
-We tithe 10% of our income to help the work of the Lord move forward.
-We have an unpaid and volunteer lay clergy who lead our congregations. Members could be asked at any time to lead, teach, speak etc.
-Most of active youth when they turn 18 or 19 will go on and serve a full time mission. They pay their own way and are gone for 18-24 months, often learning a new language, putting a hold on their schooling and starting a family. No other church on earth have youth that are willing to do this in the numbers that we do. We have over 75,000 full time missionaries throughout the world.
-Once a month we fast for a day. The money we save on the food we donate to the churches welfare program which helps take care of the poor and needy.
-Our youth attend seminary class daily, often in the morning before their school.
-We are taught to read the scriptures and pray daily.
-Once a week we are asked to have a family night where we help make our families stronger.
-Twice a month all member families are visited by other members of their congregation and a spiritual message is shared.
-We are asked to attend our temples regularly. In order to enter into our temples one must be found worthy and hold a temple recommend. I order to obtain a recommend they are interview by their bishop and asked questions like… Do you have a testimony of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Whether you live the law of chastity, pay tithing, are honest with others, and keep the Word of Wisdom. Whether you strive to attend church, keep the covenants you have made, and keep your life in harmony with the commandments of the gospel.
-We are the fastest growing christian church in the world.
-We have over 15,000,000 members world wide.
-We have been around for almost 200 years now.

I do not say these things to boast and I do not feel that we are better than anyone else. We are all sinners and are damned except it be through the atonement of Jesus Christ. These are the fruits of our devotion to Jesus Christ.
Thanks
Jeff

Jack Wellman September 29, 2013 at 9:34 pm

Thank you Jeff for your comment. The main difference between Protestantism and Mormonism is that Mormons teach and believe that man can become God while Protestants believe that God became man.

I am glad you mentioned Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” because Joseph Smith was one. Here is the evidence:

“President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion–our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh–even fifty-six years should wind up the scene.” (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189).

“Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation” (this according to your own church’s documents; Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.) but here is how his prophecy failed:

The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple.

The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. This clearly failed.

“Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; 2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations,” (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). Sorry…wrong again. This is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.

I could go on as there is massive amounts to read thru but the point is that “When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him” (Deut. 18:20-22).

Then you stated that Mormons are “abstain from alcohol, tobacco, drugs etc. hoping to keep our bodies and minds clean and pure.” Well to have a section of town where we live that not one single person does any of these things…and in fact they don’t even go to movies, don’t swear, don’t play cards or dance nor do they take part in “alcohol, tobacco, drugs.” We call it the cemetery.
As for the fastest growing religions, here are the actual facts….besides Christianity, here are the top 4 fastest growing religions in the world:

Islam 21.7 million
Hinduism 13.9 million
Ethnoreligionists 4 million
Animsts 3.9 million

So since Islam is the fastest growing religion outside of Protestantism, does that mean that they are right? That is faulty reasoning you gave to validate Mormonism. Aids is also the fastest growing so being popular does not mean something is right! So is atheism growing faster too. Thanks for your comments but you need to do a lot more research to convince us that man can become God and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and that not doing something means you are “religious” (that is salvation by works) and that the thing that is growing quickest means it is validated to mean it is right. Evil is growing faster than good so does that mean it’s true?

Jeff C October 1, 2013 at 12:35 am

Thank you Mr Wellman for your thoughtful and kind comments. We claim to believe in Christ. Our Church bares his name. The scriptures say. By their fruits ye shall know them. In no other church will you find members that are as devoted to the cause of Christ as you will find in ours. In what other church do you find the majority of their active youth willing to set aside 2 years of their lives to serve a mission, proclaiming his gospel to the world. Before you condemn a group of people maybe you should take the time to understand what we actualy teach and believe. It is nothing like how you continually portray us. Is our history perfect? No! Does it have to be? Everyone’s is muddled in controversy. Christ is the only perfect Being to ever walk this earth and it is only through believing in Him can one be made clean.
Yours in Christ
Jeff

Jack Wellman October 1, 2013 at 11:10 am

Thank you Jeff for your comment. Where did I portray you in the wrong way sir but in the ways I mentioned that are true? I live in Kansas where I relate and have exchanges with these men and women. You failed to address what I wrote and that was “The main difference between Protestantism and Mormonism is that Mormons teach and believe that man can become God while Protestants believe that God became man.”

And you mentioned Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” because Joseph Smith was one and the massive amounts of evidence I have provided but a tiny fraction. I am not condemning them but only exposing what is clearly a false religion because you claim Jesus was created and not God and that again Christians believe God became Man in Christ but you teach and believe that man will become God and that is not found in the Bible.

Jack Wellman October 19, 2013 at 7:46 pm

The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of people who came from the Middle-East to the Americas. It covers the period of about 600 B.C. to 400 A.D. It tells of the Jaredites, people from the Tower of Babel who came to central America but perished because of their own immorality. It also describes some Jews who fled persecution in Jerusalem and came to America led by a man called Nephi. The Jews divided into two groups known as the Nephites and Lamanites who fought each other. The Nephites were defeated in 428 A.D.

The Lamanites continued and are known as the American Indians. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of the Nephite leader who was called Mormon as he wrote concerning their culture, civilization, and appearance of Jesus to the Americas.

Joseph Smith said “that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book” (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).

By the way, there is zero historical, paleontological or archeological evidence for even one of these false historical accounts that have ever been proven.

Jack Wellman October 19, 2013 at 7:57 pm

Here are some of the things I know to be true:

The real Joseph Smith is nothing like the Joseph Smith you hear about in church.1.The real Joseph Smith taught polygamy.

The real Joseph Smith married other women.

Some of these women were already married to other men and stayed married to them.

Some of these women were just children.

The real Joseph Smith taught that Polygamy is for sex.

The polygamous wives were pressured to accept or God would do bad things.

Joseph Smith kept it secret and lied about it.

Don’t take my word for it, you can read about it in official church documents and reputable history. Mormons try and make this look spiritual and holy, but it isn’t. Anyone that checks into U.S. Historical records will see these facts verified.

Grace October 21, 2013 at 1:55 pm

Thank you Jack for your response. You raised some very valid points about some of the misunderstandings and problems with some of our early history. I will do my best to answer your questions. I don’t think the practice of polygamy is the problem here. There are prophets in the old testament who were in polygamous relationships. Abraham being one. If you lived in the time of Abraham and you were not of his faith, you would have had a big problem with the actions Abraham took with his maid servant? but now because you read about it in the Bible you have no problem with it. Part of Gods plan is to bring his spirit children to this earth and teach them in the way of righteousness so they can return to live with Him. Though the practice was not perfect for the most part the polygamous families of the early church were some of the strongest and most faithful to the cause of Christ. Many more spirit children were able to be born at this time period to strong Christ centred families. Many of my ancestors were part of these polygamous families and from our family records we read about their deep seeded faith in Jesus Christ and how they raised their children to love the lord.
The problem does lie in how some of the early saints and Joseph Smith introduced and administered the practice in the beginning. Was their some problems? Yes. An honest question I have for you is did the Prophets in the Bible have a full understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ? If so when did they gain their full understanding and were they infallible and perfect like Christ? I believe they might have been a lot more human than we make them out to be. Obviously I have no problems with their writings in the Bible but they were human and imperfect beings just like us living at a completely different time and culture. I believe they continued to grow in their understanding as they progressed in the work of the Lord.
What was Joseph Smith asked to do? He was asked to restore Gods truth back to the earth, which was prophesied in the Bible. Not an easy task since it took Christianity 2000 years to get to that point so it was not going to be fixed all at once. Did God just all at once restore all of his word to him or did he do it line upon line precept upon precept (Isaiah 28) as Smith was ready to receive it? Did Joseph Smith make some mistakes along the way in accomplishing the lords work? Yes!!! that is human. But are those mistakes enough to make irrelevant all of the other things he was able to accomplish with the help of God? The Book of Mormon, temple ordinances and the work for the dead, revelation, priesthood authority etc.
Here are some things that help strengthen my testimony in the work I do. Joseph Smith was martyred for the things he taught, the same things in which I believe. Even though some of them left the Church none of the 10 witnesses to the gold plates and the Book of Mormon ever denied that they saw the plates. The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ and His divinity. The holy spirit confirms to me of its truthfulness. Without the divine help and inspiration from God there is no way Joseph Smith could have written the Book of Mormon and I think there in lies the key. If the Book of Mormon is true and came from God then all else is true as well. My question for you is… Since you obviously believe Joseph Smith to be a fraud, how do you explain his ability to bring forth the Book of Mormon?
God Bless you my friend!
P.S. Just another thought I had in closing. While I was serving as a missionary we were teaching a Pastor from the church The congregation of Yahweh. Their founder also wrote a book explaining all of their beliefs. I read parts of it and it was very forceful in a scriptural sense of proclaiming many of their differing beliefs. The Book of Mormon does not deviate from or contradict the doctrines found in the Bible. If Smith just wrote it, why would he not include parts explaining some of out differing interpretations of Biblical doctrines and made it more blatant to prove his points?

Jack Wellman October 21, 2013 at 2:08 pm

Thank you Grace. We have covered this ground before in the previous comments but maybe you haven’t seen it so let me say that the book of Mormon has so many errors that it is hard to know where to begin. The Bible on the other hand is perfect and without error. If Joseph Smith has such a horrible track record of missed prophecies how can you believe that a man who was wrong so many, many times can be believed when ALL of the prophets of the Bible where right 100% of the time and so by definition of a prophet, Mr. Smith should have been rightly stoned according to God. By the way “But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the Lord only if his prediction comes true” (Jer. 28:9) and ““When all this come s true – and it surely will – then they will know that a prophet has been among them.” (Ezek. 33:33). We see that we can not believe Mr. Smith because if ALL THIS comes true then they will know that a prophet has been among them….and if the don’t? Then will know that a prophet has NOT been among them.

Randy Drake October 21, 2013 at 8:46 pm

Grace,
You, as well as all the LDS respondents before you, fail to address the subject of God’s deity. In many of the previous comments people have had questions about this. The Mormons believe that those who have attained the highest level of Heaven will become gods, as God the Father was human. Nowhere does the Bible say this. The Bible also says that Jesus is God expressed in human form, not some spirit baby procreated by the Father.

Then there is the “work for the dead”, commonly expressed in the Mormon practice of baptism for the dead. First, a persons salvation is a personal thing. Someone acting as a proxy isn’t going to be able to help someone who has gone on before. They made their own choices. Second, the mention of this practice in 1 Corinthians is in reference to a pagan ritual, not a commandment for us to do it.

Also, you ask how could Joseph Smith do all this? The same way you confirm your beliefs. By the spirits, obviously, right? At what point did you or Joseph Smith test the spirits? 1John 4:1 says to do this very thing. What’s the easiest and most infallible way to do this? Study the Bible and immerse youself in His word. Not the Book of Mormon, which has been re-written many times and is therefore not the perfect word of God, but the Bible, which has the same word today as the documents from centuries ago that archaeologists dig up. The “burning in the bosom” that I, and every other, LDS member was taught is not reliable.

As Mr. Wellman said, the subjects you bring up have been discussed before in the previous comments. The answers we get from LDS members in these comments, as well as in comments and articles I’ve read and heard elsewhere, basically boil down to this: This is what is written in the Book of Mormon and other Mormon references such as the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price which are based on Joseph Smith’s spritual experience and have to be true because you have a burning in your bosom. Also, if it were not true, why would so many people believe?

We are not responding to beat people up. We are concerned that people are being led away from true salvation. This is important. Eternally important.

Randy Drake

Murray October 22, 2013 at 10:41 pm

Randy Thanks for your comments. I keep getting blocked so I have to come in the back door to respond. I will answer all of your questions providing I am able to post my responses. You say that our beliefs do not come from the Bible, well it appears that you must have missed where it talks about all of the points you mentioned. As it has been said before. The definition of the Trinity is not found in the Bible. It was conceived during the councils of Nicaea, which was led by Emperor Constantine, who was not even a Christian. The definition of the trinity was formulated to appease all sides of the debate on the Nature of God and the relationship between God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. The only thing different between our differing beliefs is that the Trinity says that they are all one and the same being and we see them as three separate and distinct beings. So who is right??? Looking back, you always bash on our interpretations on the nature of God but when we use the scriptures to back up our claims you do not have an answer for them. Here are just a few of the 100s of scriptures that reference them as being 3 separate and distinct beings. So if we are wrong. How do you interoperate these scriptures differently?

Luke 3;22 reads ” And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
Acts 7;55 reads “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God”
John 20;17 reads “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
In Luke 23 Jesus, while on the cross he says “Father forgive them for they know not what they do” later on he says “father into thy hands i commend my spirit”
There are about 20 or more verses that references them as being separate distinct beings.

There are other verses that do talk of them being one, but most of them I believe them meaning one in purpose or unified like…
John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

If we use your interpretation on these scriptures I guess John 17 means that we are all part of the Trinity. Now wouldn’t that be great. We are all Gods. Being one with something is not literal in the scriptures. One in purpose is the logical proper meaning.

Now lets look at the scriptures and see what they say about our divine potential. We do not believe that we will ever become or surpass in knowledge God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost. That’s impossible. However we do believe and the scriptures do say, that as we continue to grow and progress spiritually we will become like god. Here are some of the scriptures that speak of it. How would you interpret them?

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galations 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Revelations 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Acts17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Now speaking on testing these spirits. The scriptures say that God gave us the Holy Ghost to help teach us what is true and lead us in righteousness . I do feel the spirit and it helps me be a better person by testifying of truth and leads me down paths that the lord wants. I am far from perfect but these are some of the things I do because these spirits persuade me to do them.

I attend church every sunday to learn more of his gospel.
I have never smoked or drank alcohol or done drugs because I am taught that my body is a temple and we should keep it pure.
I study the scriptures almost every day.
I pray daily. personally and with my kids
I served as a missionary teaching people about Christ and his plan of salvation for 2 years.
Do I need to go on or do you get my point? Would an evil spirit make me do those kinds of things or would you think those were good spirits? If you did them you would be good. But if a Mormon does them… they must be evil!!!
“By their fruits ye shall know them.” Even though you attend a different church I do not believe you follow an evil spirit. Even if our interpretation of some of our doctrine is wrong they still persuade us to do good. Like I said before you can ask me any question you want and I will answer them. But please answer mine as well.
Thanks and God Bless

Jack Wellman October 25, 2013 at 7:55 am

With well over a hundred comments we are going to close comments on this article. There are diminishing returns from continuing to comment on either position. Both Mormons and non-Mormons have had considerable comments and you can click on the “Previous Comments” link to read some of the pros and cons on whether the Mormon Church has is worshiping the right Jesus or not. The difference is eternally significant. I apologize for closing comments on this but the range of issues has been covered comprehensively and there is nothing more to be gained by continuing to deliberate both points of view anymore. Thank you and I apologize for the inconvenience.





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