What Does the Bible Say About Rape? How Does This Affect the Abortion Argument?

by Jack Wellman on May 12, 2012 · Print Print · Email Email

There are rapes that occur in the Bible. If someone is raped, does this justify having an abortion?  What perspective can we gain from the Bible on this issue?

The Bible Doesn’t Hide the Truth

The Bible is a unique book.  It is full of historical accounts, poetry, wisdom literature and it certainly paints a picture of the characters in the Bible, warts and all.  The Bible never tries to hide the dark side of human nature and it records all of the character’s strengths and all of their weakness.  There are examples of rape, murder, incest, and all kinds of depravity. God does not put rose colored glasses on the pages of the Bible.

Incest and Rape in the Bible

One of the most infamous of all cases of rape and incest is that of Amnon, the son of David, who laid a trap for his sister in the hopes of lying with her.  In 2 Samuel 13 we read that Amnon became so obsessed with his sister Tamar that he made himself ill. She was a virgin, and it seemed impossible for him to do anything to her (v 2). Amnon was in love with Tamar, [his] brother Absalom’s sister (v 3).  Amnon pretended to be ill and told Tamar, Bring the food here into my bedroom so I may eat from your hand.” And Tamar took the bread she had prepared and brought it to her brother Amnon in his bedroom. But when she took it to him to eat, he grabbed her and said, “Come to bed with me, my sister (v 10-11). Tamar responded by saying, “No, my brother!” she said to him. “Don’t force me! Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don’t do this wicked thing” (v 12). Tragically, Amnon “refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her (v 14).

Rape was a penalty punishable by death in the Old Testament.  In Deuteronomy 22:25-27 it is written thatif in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.  But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor,  because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.”  Of course, the woman did nothing wrong in this case and she is naturally under no condemnation. However the man has committed a crime worth at that time of capital punishment (death).

What Does The Bible Say About Rape and Abortion

The baby who is born of adultery or rape is completely innocent and there is no Scripture nor is there precedence for having such a baby killed or the fetus aborted.

Does the End Justify the Means?

Of all the rapes that occur in the Bible we see that God is vehemently opposed to it, however no where in the pages of Scripture do we see that a baby is to be killed or aborted just because a rape or incest occurred.  The baby who is born of adultery or rape is completely innocent and there is no Scripture nor is there precedence for having such a baby killed or the fetus aborted.  God is the Author of Life.  Babies are most precious to God since they have not yet reached the age of accountability.  Whatever the age of accountability is, and the Bible gives no specific age because each person is different, it is most certainly not the babies fault.  God is against any and every abortion even in the event of  rape, incest or adultery.  The only exception of course is if the mother’s health is endangered and then it’s clear that the mother’s life must be saved over that of the fetus or baby.  Clearly the Sixth Commandment covers the unborn or newly born by saying, You shall not commit murder (Ex 20:13).

All humans, babies included, are made in the image of God (Gen 1:26-31, 2:4-25, James 3:9-10).  Children are brought forth from God (Gen 4:1).  Why would God want to destroy the handiwork of His hands, as it is written in the Psalms (139:13-15) “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.  I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.” Even “From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God (Psalm 22:10).

God is the Protector and Defender of Children

Part of the reason that God commanded Israel to take over and destroy the other nations were that they were sacrificing their own children in the fire and this was a great abomination to God.  He hates this and God has stated that He would not even hold His own nation guiltless of this crime (2 Kings 17:17-18, Psalm 106:35-38).  He is the defender of the helpless (Isaiah 1:13-17).  The first part of the definition of pure religion given by God deals with orphans and widows but it doesn’t say how young the orphans must be to be qualify (James 1:27).  We can assume all parent-less children are orphans, even at birth. If the mother doesn’t want the baby and neither does the father and the plan is to abort him or her, then that child is still an orphan in God’s eyes and it is nothing less than murder to God.  It is a human being even before birth as Jeremiah and David wrote under the inspiration of God (Jer 1:5, Psalm 139:13-15 and elsewhere).

Abortionists Can Not Worship God

You may have had an abortion and God is always merciful to forgive you and there is no sin that God can not forgive (1 John 1:9) but if people believe it is okay to have abortions and they support it, they can not also be worshiping God simultaneously.  Why?  Because that is a contradiction to His Word and the Scriptures previously mentioned.  God is the Giver of Life and only He has the right and authority to take it.  The fact is that we all have an appointment to die but God Himself has appointed this day and we have no right to supersede His divine right in the sanctity of life (Heb 9:27).  Jesus said, “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full (John 10:10b).

Life begins at conception, not at birth.  Just see what God says through Jeremiah the Prophet, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart (Jer 1:5). Amos (1:13) displays God‘s righteous indignation against those who kill babies or fetuses in the womb writing, “This is what the LORD says: “The people of Ammon have sinned again and again, and I will not let them go unpunished! When they attacked Gilead to extend their borders, they ripped open pregnant women with their swords.” God will not hold them guiltless nor will He let them go unpunished who kill the unborn. How much more clear can these Scriptures be?   This is not my opinion but God Almighty’s.  If this makes you mad, then you are getting mad at the wrong person, but it still needs to be said!

Conclusion

We see that God is the Author of Life (Gen 1), that He is the defender of the defenseless (Isaiah 1:13-17), that He calls a human being a person by name before they are even born (Jer 1:5), and that He will not allow the taking of human life to go unpunished (Amos 1:13).   Rape and even incest are no reasons to take an innocent, human life.  It is like punishing an innocent victim because of someone else’s crime or sin.  With the exception of endangering a mother’s physical life, an unborn baby, fetus or embryo are sacred to God.  They are viable human beings with the right to life and the right to live.  There are many couples who can not have their own children who are on waiting lists as potential adoptive parents and this list is exceedingly long.  This is a sensitive area, a touchy subject, a controversial issue, but it is worth fighting for -  for those who can not defend themselves.  God expects us to preserve life and He makes no exceptions to the rule.  God is the Giver of Life and He is the only one who has the right to take it.

Other Hard Questions:

Resources:
New International Version Bible (NIV)
THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide



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{ 56 comments… read them below or add one }

Alysha May 12, 2012 at 10:22 am

Jack,

Where in the bible does it say that abortion is allowed during life threatening situations? Can you explain this?

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Jack May 12, 2012 at 2:54 pm

Hello Alysha. I am not condoning abortion but what I am suggesting is that if the mother’s life may be in danger or that she could die, but if the mother dies, the baby will also die. And any potential children who might later be born would never be born to her. I am not saying that abortion is right, as you can tell in this article, it is murder, but if a baby has complications that might kill the mother (which is so unlikely but has occurred) then the baby might have to be take to preserve the mothers life. If not, the baby would die also and with the mother’s death, two would die..and any subsequent children she might conceive and give birth to would be also not given the chance for life. I should have explained this better so my apologies Alysha. Thank you.

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christian December 13, 2012 at 4:19 pm

Hello Jack,
I’ve enjoyed reading many of your articles on this site for awhile now. And while usually I’m defending your position I do have a question concerning this one. Now, I understand that choosing to save the mother’s life in the even that either way the child would die is a rational choice and there is no scripture that I have seen as of yet that talks about the matter. However, choosing the mother over the child, while not opposing scripture directly, does show a lack of faith in His promise of saving the mother during childbirth “if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety” (1 Tim 2:15). Choosing the mothers life over the child really then becomes a matter of faith in His word, right?

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Jack Wellman December 13, 2012 at 5:22 pm

Thank you Christian. The Scripture you bring up, 1 Tim 2:15 which says, “But women will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety” does not have to do with choosing a mother’s life over the babies at all from what I could gather in the entire context of chapter 2. For example, we see in verses 9-15 deals with how women are to be examples of the faith in the church and is not dealing with the biology of giving birth. Most Bible scholars and one scholar who I attended in studying the book of 1 Timothy believes that a woman being saved through childbirth is in the Greek, is better translated “through childbearing” and this child being born might be referring to Christ who was born of a woman (the virgin Mary). It is not saying that she have faith in “IN the faith” which is having faith in Christ.

I still believe that a woman’s life comes before a child and I don’t think you are arguing this point but what if she has faith that she will not die and the child and her both die?…or she dies and the child lives? There is much to your question and I believe some of these will never be known until we see Christ, face to face.

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Pamela Rose Williams May 12, 2012 at 11:57 am

Hello Jack, This is a great article on yet another controversial subject. You have done well to show the Scriptures that show that the Bible does not hide the truth. And indeed, the end does not justify the means when it comes to an innocent baby that is conceived out of a violent act. I wrote a little about this a couple months ago on my site, take a look at the article http://christianeveryday.com/index.php/plans-for-you/.

Thank you for consistently standing on the word of God and proving what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. You study and it shows. All glory to God brother.

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Jack May 12, 2012 at 3:01 pm

Thank you Pam. I checked out your article and the Jeremiah quote is very relevant and I also noticed an advertisement for the 180 movie and wish more could see this because I think they would change their mind if they are considering having an abortion.

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Pam Williams May 12, 2012 at 4:38 pm

Hi again brother. In fact folks can view that 180 movie.from my article. I agree, it can change minds and hearts and save lives if more would view it.

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Lloyd May 18, 2012 at 12:56 am

You mentioned Deuteronomy 22:25-27 but did not mention the next two verses. The woman is raped, but she must marry the rapist if she is not betrothed. Is this not a punishment to her? She must live with and serve a man that violated her in a very traumatic way. In this case, the woman did nothing wrong just like in Deuteronomy 22:25-27. How can you explain this?

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Jack May 18, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Lloyd, great observation sir. I see what you mean. In Deut 22:28-29 is what you are talking about and it reads, “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”

The only difference her is that the in Duet 22:27 it says, “for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.”

The difference is that the woman did not scream in the Duet 22:28-29 verses so this is a different scenario. The woman not screaming indicates that she did not resist and therefore was a party to it. If she had screamed perhaps someone could have rescued her, as there was none to rescue the lady being raped in verses 25-27. I don’t know if this helps but that was the difference to me. She didn’t scream for help and therefore must not have resisted for anyone who screams is resisting.

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Chris July 12, 2012 at 8:11 am

Hi Jack,

Thanks for writing this. I certainly understand this and as a Christian I am confused as to what should be done about Abortion and laws in a secular state. In fact, anytime I have brought this sort of argument up I have always received the rebuttal of: “Well, God ordered the Israelites to kill babies in battle.”

For Example:
1 Samuel 15 (New International Version)
The LORD Rejects Saul as King

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

So with that being said, I can certainly see that God would be speaking to Saul telling him to eradicate the evil culture but how do you explain that to non-believing people?

Thanks so much and God bless you!

-Chris

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Jack Wellman July 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm

You can remind them that these nations were so abnormally evil that they were sacrificing their own children in the fires of their altars in sacrificing to a pagan god. Imagine that…they were putting screaming babies into a roaring fire to appease their gods and sacrificing them. What a terrible thing. God wanted no trace of them.

Also keep in mind that these infants or babies and children who died were taken to a far better place. These children were so inculcated (or indoctrinated) into pagan idolatry that they would have been impossible to re-train. Besides, these children would be in a much better place. Please read this link below to see where these children go after they die:

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/where-do-babies-go-if-they-die-do-they-go-to-heaven-or-hell/

Thank you for such a great question Chris. You can tell them that these nations were throwing their babies/infants into a fire to sacrifice. This type of false religion had to stop. God was being merciful in actuality. Hope this answers your question.

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Chris July 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm

Thanks Jack. I really appreciate your response!

-Chris

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Jack Wellman July 12, 2012 at 3:32 pm

You are welcome Chris and I hope it helps. And thank you also for attempting to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within you. I get the feeling that you are a witness for the gospel.

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Russ July 1, 2013 at 11:21 am

Jack,

Your analogy of the Amalekites children being killed is true in any culture in this worlds history. After all, isn’t heaven, which is what you were referring to when you said, “a better place” where all young children (infants) go??? So no matter what child is aborted or killed by the hands of man kind, they enter the kingdom of heaven and thus, are in a better place than here on earth. So even in America the aborted child is in heaven, a far better place than here on earth. I don’t know about you, but I have been sad when I lost my father, brother, or anyone close to me but never was I upset for them. I knew they were now in a better place. I was said in a selfish manner because they were not going to be with “ME” anymore. However, for them I was not sorry, I knew they were happy and sitting at the thrown of God. Why anyone of us should be upset at anyone who is in heaven is beyond me.

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Tee July 20, 2012 at 10:11 am

Wouldn’t you say that God knew that some women would have an abortion? When Jesus said, I have come so that they may have life, and have it to the full,” That is not pertaining necessarily to abortion, he’s referring to saving souls in general to the lost since God sent him so that we would have life spiritually, mentally & physically. Regarding Jeremiah – he’s referring to Jeremiah directly in the scripture & yes he knew all of us before we were born & he knew that some women would have an abortion before they did. Regarding your reference to Ammon, the scripture says that they have sinned again & again, & ripped open pregnant women, yet this does not pertain to abortion it reflects that their sins will not go unpunished because of all their sins including murdering pregnant women.

I do not agree with abortion too but I understand that some circumstances are different & those who are believers understand that God knows our hearts. Some women geniunely feel as if they have no alternatives & God sees this. I just don’t agree when some people take scriptures to justify their point of view. We all see scriptures in different ways but before articles are written you should ask God for his holy spirit to discern it & not go by your own interpretations of what it means. Some scriptures are pretty clear & some may take years to understand.

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Marina July 30, 2012 at 1:47 pm

“but if a baby has complications that might kill the mother (which is so unlikely but has occurred) then the baby might have to be take to preserve the mothers life.”

Does this mean that we can decide for God ? Only God can give and take away life.

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Jack Wellman July 30, 2012 at 2:30 pm

Then you are saying let the mother die and the baby be saved? If so, then YOU are deciding where God should and only God can take a life away. What would you do? Have a good day.

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Marina July 31, 2012 at 12:38 am

Good morning Jack, I don’t know what I would do. I did not say that the baby or the mother must be saved, I don’t think I have the right to decide. I am a christian for a very short time, and are still trying to find my way. I cannot find any scripture in the bible about this, I would really like to know from a biblical point of view. Must everything not be tested according to the bible? And what if the bible is not clear on something, could I decide on God’s behalf ? I feel confused.

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Jack Wellman July 31, 2012 at 2:35 pm

Yes, Marina, everything should be tested. Let me put it this way. If my wife was having a baby and she would die if she had the baby, we would do everything we could to save the baby and the mother’s life, but if I had a choice, I would choose to save my wife’s life and besides the fact, that babies that die go to heaven. My wife is the mother of 4 children. If the Bible is not clear on something then we must choose to do what we see written in the 10 Commandments. The Bible doesn’t say a lot a finite details so we must choose in the light of God’s laws.

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Rusty February 19, 2013 at 6:36 pm

Maina,
I can tell you where I would come down on that situation. I would tell my wife I want her to live. It would be difficult and very painful, but where will our child be? A place we all strive for someday, Heaven. I know where our child would be, and I would hope that when we ask God for foregivness, that it would be granted.

Russ July 1, 2013 at 11:25 am

Marina,

Your comment that; “only God can give and take away life.” means that you are against the death penalty, right? After all, “only God can give and take away life.”

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Jack Wellman July 2, 2013 at 3:59 pm

Russ… you are imputing to Marina thoughts and words that she never intended. You can not insinuate what a person is thinking by misconstruing her words. Russ, the Bible clearly indicates that God alone can take a human life, not counting the death penality, which by the way, God does support the death penalty as we read in the Bible. Abortion is taking an innocent life but killing someone who has murdered others is called justice for they are not innocent but judged, legally, by the courts for taking human life. A simple reading of Romans 13 shows that to be true.

Even if you refuse to call abortion murder, it makes no difference what you call it but what God says is more important than what you or the Supreme Court says. Just because something is not against the law does not mean it is moral or right in God’s eyes. You are using a human standard and not God’s.

Jack Wellman July 3, 2013 at 12:49 pm

Russ…have you ever spoken with your pastor about this? Since you say you are saved, let me ask you, do you have a pastor or church home? You apparently are tied to the Old Testament and may not realize we are under a new and better covenant. Many who question things from the Old Testament are trying to question God, in effect, by using such Scriptures.

By the way, many of these nations that God says to destroy complete were so pagan that they were sacrificing their own children in the fire. God does not need me to defend His actions. God always does the right thing…always! Job tried questioning God and what did He say in His rebuke? I strongly suggest my friend that you read Job 38 & 39 into the 1st part of chapter 40 and more….

“Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it. Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? Have you an arm like God?”

“Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man.” “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together? And all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

Job fell on his face and said “Behold, I am vile;
What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth. Once I have spoken, but I will not answer;
Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further.”

Russ, if you are “cherry picking” Scriptures to question God and His Word, this is serious business for He is the Author of all Scripture and needs not to answer to any man or woman how questions what is written in HIS Word, Old or New Testament. God does not need me to defend His Sacred Writings. You will answer to Him who question His deeds and actions or whatever is written by His Spirit in the Holy Bible for Scripture is God speaking (2 Tim 3:16-17)!

Jack Wellman July 2, 2013 at 4:04 pm

Marina….please forgive me…the most recent comment was intended for Russ and not you. I am sorry. I was comment to Russ instead who said that you insinuated that you said, in effect, that since “God can give and take away life.” means that you are against the death penalty, right? After all, “only God can give and take away life.” to which I disagree with and you were right. Thank you.

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Russ July 3, 2013 at 12:31 pm

Jack,
I don’t claim to be an expert on the bible. I read it over and over and each time I read something it can change in its meaning (not everything). I find that we as Christians make issues with abortion as if it is the biggest fight we have with sinners (and gay marriage). I find no where in the bible that god puts sin above other sin. In other words, murder, rape, abortion, adultery, lairs (the devils best used tool), etc. etc. all are sins in God’s eye. All are forgivable by God. A person who supports a right to chose and calls themselves a Christian is no different than a lair, or adulterer, murderer who says the same thing. Because we allow sin does not make us a sinner. Only the person who sin’s is the sinner.
In the bible when the Lord had commanded Mosses to attack Midian, they killed every man and the 5 kings of Midianite. They brought all the women to Mosses. Mosses was furious with the warriors and told them to kill every boy and every women who had been with a man. But he said, you may keep the young virgins girls for yourself.
To me that means that Mosses believed in (and says he was command by God) and supported forced rape of young girls from the spoils of war. In Deuteromomy 20: 10-14 God says,”As you approach a town to attack it first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Does this mean that God approves of murder, rape and slavery? This section of scripture has been very questionable to me over the years. When I first was saved it made me question was I really serving a loving, forgiving God. Help with this scripture would be greatly appreciated.

Marina August 20, 2012 at 12:33 am

Thank you Jack. God has shown me through this correspondence that everything I do, and all decisions that I make, should be about love. It is all about the condition of my heart, and the Spirit of God will be my helper. Thanks again. Marina

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Jack Wellman August 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm

Thank you so much Marina for your gracious comment. I hope you will come back again and grace us with such words of love that sound like they came from Jesus’ mouth. God bless you my friend.

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Brittany August 29, 2012 at 3:06 am

The bible says that rape victims go to hell unless they marry their rapist. Which by the way isn’t always possible. Especially if it’s your dad, relative, stranger, someone that’s already married, cop, doctor, etc… the bible is full of cruel things and they constantly punish rape victims. Guess I’m going to HELL!

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Jack Wellman August 29, 2012 at 2:53 pm

Hello Brittany. Let me say that there is not one person beyond the grace of God to save. No one has sinned such a great sin that they are beyond God’s redemptive mercy. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” God says He will forgive ALL of our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness…now you must believe Him for God can not lie. David was an adulterer and conspired to have Bathsheba’s husband killed but he was forgiven. The Bible is not full of cruel things but saving grace on what Jesus suffered like no other person on earth has. No one is sent to hell…they send them selves there by rejecting Jesus. Place your trust in Him and no matter what you’ve done, repent from wickedness, confess your sins, and trust in Jesus and you will be saved.

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Carlos2121 October 17, 2012 at 9:07 pm

I beleive ther is a slight error on where it says “If this makes you mad, then you are getting made at the wrong person, but it still needs to be said!” It should be mad not made correct?

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Jack Wellman October 17, 2012 at 9:17 pm

Carlos, you are spot on the mark my friend and I am indebted to you. I want to thank you. This is yet more proof that the Word of God, the Bible, is perfect….me, not so much! LOL

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robbiecee October 24, 2012 at 2:12 pm

You were writing a pretty God article until you started to interject your views! I’m assuming that you researched and found that there is nowhere in the Bible that speaks to the aborting babies in the case of rape or incest. You also don’t see anywhere in the Bible that God is against; nor do you see where he speaks of saving a mother over an unborn child! You don’t see anything that speaks to it- so don’t assume!

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Pamela Rose Williams October 24, 2012 at 3:46 pm

Hello robbiecee, I saw your comment come in and I wanted to respond to you. Please know that I do not speak for Jack but I must ask you to read the article again. Pastor Jack does speak to your concerns. I see that Jack is not assuming anything… look again at his conclusion “We see that God is the Author of Life (Gen 1), that He is the defender of the defenseless (Isaiah 1:13-17), that He calls a human being a person by name before they are even born (Jer 1:5), and that He will not allow the taking of human life to go unpunished (Amos 1:13). Rape and even incest are no reasons to take an innocent, human life. It is like punishing an innocent victim because of someone else’s crime or sin.”

This is a very, very sad subject to which many Christians have no answers. Jack has done well to point out the Scriptures that speak against murder. Abortion of an unborn baby is murder — murder of an innocent life. Regarding abortion of the baby to save the mother, in my heart I know this too is God’s decision and again, it is a situation that no person wants to make. But in the reality of life, sometimes the decision must be made to give direction to the doctors — save mother or save child.There is a huge difference in purposeful abortion and losing the life of the baby in a medical emergency. And by the way, statistically this situation is quite rare — last I saw it is like 1/10 of 1% of all abortions worldwide.

So no matter the reason for purposeful abortion, we must hold onto the fact that God gives life and He takes it away. No human has the right to do that.

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Jack Wellman October 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm

Well said Pam. I think you answered better than I could. We have an article coming in Nov (2012) called What Does the Bible Say About Abortion? and what you has said Pam, is very much in agreement with the article from which I relied on the Bible for support, for my own personal opinion is worth nothing, but the Word of God we can depend upon for objective, unchanging truth. Thank you Pam and also thank you robbiecee.

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Rusty February 19, 2013 at 6:45 pm

Pamela,
Who say’s that abortion is Murder? God doesn’t anywhere I’ve ever read. Second the bible also tells us; Obey the laws of the land. Our laws say that abortion is Not Murder and that abortion is Lawful up to a point. So therefore Abortion is not Murder. Our law’s (the Supreme Court say so). Now, if and when the law changes, maybe you have a case. But I have refused to call abortion, done in a legal manner Murder, cause it simply is not by law. Even God’s law, as he tells us to obey the laws of the land. Not having an abortion does not break any law, but neither does having one.

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Pamela Rose Williams February 19, 2013 at 7:31 pm

Hello Rusty, The Bible says “Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.” (Deuteronomy 27:25). For one human to slay another is murder. That is just plain English as found in the Bible. For someone to slay an innocent child is murder. For a doctor to perform the abortion and get paid to do it is an abomination to the Lord. It is listed among seven things that are an abomination to the Lord — those things that He hates:

“These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Regarding the law of the land. In the USA according to the Constitution it is lawful to bear arms … yet some states say it is not lawful. So then, what is the law of the land? In the state of Vermont it is lawful for a man to wed a man and a woman to wed a woman. In Ohio it is not lawful to do so. So then, what is the law of the land? I can go on … but I think you get my point.

You can believe whatever you like Rusty but that does not change the fact that abortion is the act of slaying (murdering) an innocent person. When the law of the land goes against the law of God I stand on God’s word. Believing that abortion is NOT murder is just another way of tolerating an abomination unto the Lord. Mincing words and saying that the Bible does not call it murder is just a way to excuse a filthy and violent act. My case is for what God says. Not my words … the word of the Lord. So to answer your question “Who says that abortion is murder?” God says it and I believe it. Period

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Russ July 1, 2013 at 11:33 am

Pamela,

Of the seven is there one worse than the other? I agree many things are terrible, regardless of it is a violation of God’s law or the law of the land. However, you did see the “lying tongue” in your post. Tell me when anyone is punished for lying? Obama, Bush, Senators, Congressmen, Mothers, Fathers etc. etc. It is god who will judge and punish. After all God has the final say. I will live my life in the say that I believe God wants me to live it and I will take my chances with his judgement, not mans.

Jack Wellman February 20, 2013 at 10:17 am

Rusty, please read this article that addresses more closely the issue of abortion. Yes, we are to obey man’s laws but when man’s laws supersede God’s laws, then we must follow God’s laws above man’s laws. Having an abortion doesn’t break man’s laws but it clearly does God’s Commandment. Read this link my friend to see why it is so.

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion-a-christian-study/

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Rusty March 26, 2013 at 4:16 pm

Pamela,
“A lying tounge.” So every person is guilty of this multiple times in a life. It is just as bad as the abortion by your own quote. In fact the devils biggest tool is the lie, not the abortion. That also by your bible quote would outlaw the death penalty, and most Christians I know support the death penalty. As you said, only God has the right to take a life.

Jack,
So then we are to put to death women and men who commit adultry? When we go to war we are to kill all men, boy’s and women who are not virgins? We are to keep the young virgin girls for ourselves? There a bible quotes that talk of these things. Is it the old testament or the New-Testament we are to follow. One is Gods laws the other is Jesus. Which are we to follow. If we are to follow the words of God, why only some of them, and then disobey the others?
Jack, I will go to your sites and read up on the abortion links you’ve posted. Thank you for your response and your civility in discussion.

Jack Wellman July 2, 2013 at 3:55 pm

Rusty, the Bible clearly indicates that God alone can take a human life, not counting the death penality, which God supports as we read in the Bible. We must obey God above men and when mankind’s laws conflict God’s laws, then we must as Peter said in Acts 5:29 ““We must obey God rather than men.”

Even if you refuse to call abortion murder, it makes no difference what you call it but what God says is more important than what you or the Supreme Court says. Just because something is not against the law does not mean it is moral or right in God’s eyes. You are using a human standard and not God’s.

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Russ July 3, 2013 at 12:39 pm

Thank you Jack. I know on many of my posts it seems I am disagreeing or arguing. Please know that I am not. I am learning. Thank you for your posts!

amy November 12, 2012 at 9:19 am

When is a mother’s life so endangered that the baby must be killed to save hers? This is a lie. There is never a time the baby must be kileld to save someone. In situations when the mother’s life is at risk it is far enough along in the pregnancy the baby may be delivered early or delivered via cesaerain section. NEVER deos the baby have to be killed.
I am very shocked to ehar you would kill your child in preference to your wife. I understand you know her better and are closer to her and love her very much. But God is no respecter of persons and says we should never show preferncial treatment. It would be a tragedy if your wife died… but not worth putting the blood of an innocent defenseless child on your hands and the hands of your wife, and the hospital staff.
I have read many of your articles and this really seems to not agree with your writings. Because you bought into a lie. Worldly wisdom is sneaky. You are in the fisrt step toward mocking God as in Psalm 1.

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Jack Wellman November 12, 2012 at 12:21 pm

Thank you for your comment Amy. Are you saying that never has a woman’s life had to be saved by taking the unborn child’s life? Medical statistics don’t lie. It is extremely rare, in fact only 1/10th of .01% but it does happen. Who’s life is more valuable? The mothers or the unborn babies? The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists issued a statement saying: “Abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health. Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event.”

Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman’s life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Cecily Kellogg, 44, a writer who lives near Philadelphia, says that was the situation she faced when she was nearly six months pregnant with twin boys in 2004 and developed severe preeclampsia. One fetus had already died and “my liver had shut down, my kidneys had shut down and they were expecting me to start seizing at any minute,” she says. The doctors said they had to quickly dilate her cervix and perform an abortion to save her. “I fought it,” she says. “But they told me I would die — that it was either me and my son or just my son.”

I am pro-life but if there is a choice, should I tell my wife, “Well honey, you will need to die so we can save the baby”? Whether she dies to save the baby or has to take the life of the baby to save her life is HER choice, not mine. Isn’t it a mother’s right to saver her own life? Again, this is so rare as to be a non-factor and I stand firm in my stance against abortion.

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amy November 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm

I am not saying the mother should not be treated. Sometimes the treatment does result in the loss of life for the child… but that is not a mechanical abortion, it is the loss of the life of the baby.
Sever infections are treated with antibiotics.
Seizing is not dying.
Pregnancy is not risk free, you are right but it is especially not risk free for the baby. The riskiest place for a baby to be is in the womb of an American who can, at any moment, kill it because she feels like it… because she can find someone who will agree with her that her life is at risk.
There is the slippery slope of saying life threatening instances exist. Now life threatening instances exist in EVERY single woman who chooses to kill her baby in late term. No woman kills her baby in late term excpet those who are ‘saving their lives’. Depression, suicidal thoughts, stress are now life threatening ailments. Yeah right.
I know this is not what you are tlaking about…. none the less, this is where this (the saving the life of the mother) argument has gone.
You ALWAYS go back to God’s Word, Mr Wellman. I haev read sooo many of your posts. I am shocked to hear you say such things as you have said here.
So now:
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Deut 30:19,20 Therefore choose life….
John 1 ALL life comes from Jesus.
Job 1:21 … the Lord gave and the Lord has taken away…
Psalm 139:16 You s aw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book….
1John 3:11-15 Live in love, not hate. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer and murderers have no eternal life in Jesus.
Revelation 4:11
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”

Pro life physicians take stance of THERAPEUTIC abortion:
http://www.prolifephysicians.org/rarecases.htm

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Jack Wellman November 12, 2012 at 2:51 pm

I repeat, isn’t it a mother’s right to saver her own life? Again, this is so rare as to be a non-factor and I stand firm in my stance against abortion.

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CMS March 25, 2013 at 6:48 pm

I was reading your article, and read down the replies. The image above and its message seem disturbing – I am not lying. Jesus had gone through many things for us, including beatings and constant oppositions. For a woman raising such a baby seems to display the same message. Whoever is doing it, I bless you.
I was a bit confused when you said to save the life of a mother, kill the innocent child. “The only exception of course is if the mother’s health is endangered and then it’s clear that the mother’s life must be saved over that of the fetus or baby.”
You have stated that “they are viable human beings with the right to life and the right to live.”
“God is the Giver of Life and He is the only one who has the right to take it.” Based on this statement, not even the woman has the right to take away the life of the baby.
You noted that the “infants or babies and children who died were taken to a far better place.” Is this not so with abortions as well? Do you believe that this would justify a mother who decides her own life over her and the rapist’s baby’s life? Some babies are born in bad situations such as the poor, hungry children in Africa. I don’t like seeing it, but things are for a reason. I cannot say that they would be in a much better place if they would have been aborted, because I am a human. But hopefully a lot of pro-life people may be supporting them.
“Then you are saying let the mother die and the baby be saved? If so, then YOU are deciding where God should and only God can take a life away.” Wouldn’t one be deciding either way? Is “besides the fact, that babies that die go to heaven” only good when the mother would die from it?
How can you stand against abortion, but support it if it is unfavorable to you? Isn’t that the way of a hypocrite – to speak against something entirely, and then support it if it becomes unfavorable to you?
I believe that I am telling the truth when I say that I am for abortions of those who were victims of crime like that or if it has a bad effect in general. I believe that certain people cannot bare burdens as others have born. Who can bear the burden Jesus has bared, even though we are encouraged to be like Jesus. If one was a victim, and decided to have the child of the rapist, I don’t believe that it makes the others who can’t a sinner. We are encouraged to have one wife, but some had many. It is good to be celibate because you may not want to commit adultery accidentally, but some cannot bare it (Matthew 19:12). These eunuchs don’t destroy/take the life of “subsequent children.” As much as some want to point the finger at the victim who couldn’t handle the baby when she couldn’t even take care of herself, they should be aware of the suspect who attacks woman, child, and man.
In such verses as Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22, and Deuteronomy 22:23-24, women (along with men) can be killed, and it doesn’t mention whether she has a minute to few weeks old baby in her.

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Timothy June 12, 2013 at 11:30 am

I agree that abortion is killing and that it’s sin. If a woman is raped, she has been done a diservice by a man, and has been sinned against. It is perhaps totally inconvenient to her, and completely weird to bring up the child of a rapist; a child that will know one day that they were literally a mistake and unwanted. However, it is in selfishness that a woman will rebel against God and say ‘i have the right to kill the child’, obviously this will have a long term effect on the woman now having to raise an unwanted child, but guess what? As followers of Christ, we should know that it’s not about ‘what we want’, it’s about what God wants NO MATTER HOW INCONVENIENT ANYTHING IS IN ANYONE’S LiFE. When a woman is raped, she is completely innocent of any wrong doing, but if she kills the baby she sins too, and can no longer claim innocence from wrongdoing; she was sinned against, then she sinned against the child…. Sound familiar? From the beginning of Genesis we see Adam and Eve blame shifting in order to justify sin.
If someone sins against us, we must turn the other cheek, and if thhey sin again to us, again we have been sinned against, and the sinner has heaped more condemnation upon his head. And if evil doers commit evil against you, repay their evil with good, again heaping more condemnation upon their head. Likewise, what good is it if we only do good to those that do good? Even evil doers show kindness to their fellows in evil doings. We must live our lives as saccrifices to God, being innocent of wrong doing, and repaying evil with good (no matter the cost or the ”inconvenience”.

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Jack Wellman June 12, 2013 at 1:06 pm

Timothy…you have hit this spot on the mark. Well done. I believe your comment has not only embellished this article but in places, it has superseded it. Thank you so much sir. Very well said.

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CMS June 12, 2013 at 4:05 pm

Hello, Timothy. You have a solid, very solid, point. There seems to be no holes through your essay. God knows what you can bare and will not put no more on you, I heard, which is what some would refer to as mercy. If a woman can bare it, then she can bare it. If she can’t, then God would take it away.
I had a dream that there were these, what appeared to be, forgotten children of all colors being led by a black man dressed in leaves and branches. I think that no one cared about them. The children were dirty with what appeared to be dirt from a forest or some nature-like place. This might have concerned abortion, but I don’t know.
Well, I thought about it, and think that abortion might be bad at all times. I don’t know for sure, because I’m a human that sees mostly what things appear to be. Who knows, maybe abortion is considered not evil, like eating, but I don’t know. For now, I’ll just consider it bad, like Family Guy and South Park. Maybe the answer was in the dream I had.
By the way, I thought that people can repent for all sins, except for that one which I will not say. A rapist can probably repent for those sins, and the woman, if she plans to get rid of the unborn, can probably repent for that sin, because even though the sin was as red as blood, it can be washed away white as snow.

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Phil July 6, 2013 at 9:45 am

Hi, I would like to know if a person who is married commits adultery must the partner forgive?

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Jack Wellman July 6, 2013 at 6:56 pm

Thank you Phil for your comment. I believe the most important person who must forgive us is God for we sin first against God but also against our partner who we committed adultery against and should ask for their forgiveness. The person who was cheated on should also forgive too but they may not. We can not say they “must” because what if they don’t want to and hold a grudge. I would hope they would if the person who committed adultery is repentant.

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CMS July 6, 2013 at 7:11 pm

I believe that the partner should forgive the spouse who had cheated. The reason why is that God will forgive those who forgive others, but won’t forgive those who won’t forgive others Matt. 18:21-35. I believe that divorce is also an action because of Matt. 19:9, but still the partner would need to forgive in order to be forgiven. I hope this helps you. Happy Sabbath Day!

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Lenny August 6, 2013 at 10:40 am

Jack, Deuteronomy 22:28-29 says this, “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”

The verse you used, Deuteronomy 22:25-27 states “if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed…”

Betrothed means engaged.

Help me make sense of this or I will surely lose my faith in the scripture.

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Jack Wellman August 6, 2013 at 5:13 pm

Lenny, thank you for your comment about Deut 22:25-27 which says “But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.”

What do you not understand. The man committed a sin that is worthy of death in the Old Testament Judaic system which was for the Jews and not for this day. The woman did nothing wrong and the fact that she was in the country means there was no one who could help her or hear her screams. Why are you saying you will lose your faith over these verses in the Old Testament? A person that has repented, confessed their sins, and has put their trust in Christ can not lose what he did not gain? Are you willing to walk away from God due to this part of the Mosaic Law which was done away with at Calvary? Please help me understand why you are willing to lose your faith due to Old Testament laws. The Word of God is perfect and without error. Do you not agree?

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Jack Wellman July 3, 2013 at 12:58 pm

Russ, please forgive me if I seem too strong on staunchly defending the Word of God but I am a student of the Word too and there is so much that I still yet do not understand. It appears that I may have overreacted my friend and for that I am sorry but I am so passionate about the Holiness of God that I have had many use unruly tactics to undermine our God Who is above all of us and His understanding past or beyond human comprehension. I am glad that you are hungering for the Word of God to know more and that is a powerful sign that you have the Holy Spirit for it seems these days that few Christians are wanting to grow in grace and knowledge and so to you sir, I thank God for and am glad you are hungering and thirsting for the knowledge of the Holy and for His righteousness. I must have obviously misread your intentions and to this I deeply apologize Russ. Please forgive me.

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